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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Nov 26, 2022 5:39:12 GMT
So those modifications that are going ahead. 3 to Victoria rather than Whitehall via the current Red Arrow route 507 being axed. 6 to Victoria. 11 will operate to Waterloo diverted via current 211. 16 Paddington to Brent Park (rebranded 332) 26 to Victoria (N26 extended to Victoria from Trafalgar Sq) 59 to St. Barts via Holborn 77 terminates at Waterloo Taxi Road 133 to Holborn replacing part of the 521 (no change to N133) 211 to Battersea Power Station (11 will go to Waterloo via the current route) 332 rebranded as Route 16. 507 axed 521 axed C10 re-routed between Lambeth Palace Road and Waterloo to cover a Red Arrow route being axed. N11 to operate between Trafalgar Sq and Ealing Broadway. N32 replaces the N16. The renumbering of route 332 to 16 still means the withdrawal of the connection from Victoria to Kilburn and Cricklewood. Routes 507 & 521 were basically commuter routes but there has of course been a significant reduction in commuting due to working from home.
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Post by southlondonbus on Nov 26, 2022 9:06:56 GMT
So those modifications that are going ahead. 3 to Victoria rather than Whitehall via the current Red Arrow route 507 being axed. 6 to Victoria. 11 will operate to Waterloo diverted via current 211. 16 Paddington to Brent Park (rebranded 332) 26 to Victoria (N26 extended to Victoria from Trafalgar Sq) 59 to St. Barts via Holborn 77 terminates at Waterloo Taxi Road 133 to Holborn replacing part of the 521 (no change to N133) 211 to Battersea Power Station (11 will go to Waterloo via the current route) 332 rebranded as Route 16. 507 axed 521 axed C10 re-routed between Lambeth Palace Road and Waterloo to cover a Red Arrow route being axed. N11 to operate between Trafalgar Sq and Ealing Broadway. N32 replaces the N16. The renumbering of route 332 to 16 still means the withdrawal of the connection from Victoria to Kilburn and Cricklewood. Routes 507 & 521 were basically commuter routes but there has of course been a significant reduction in commuting due to working from home. Basically the 16 is still withdrawn in reality. Clearly by some of the counter proposals the removal of low numbers did come up as issues. Amending the 414 into the 14 and 430 into the 74 (yet effectively still withdrawing the 14 and 74), the DD 4 being diverted over the 236 and the 72 being extended to Chiswick and the 272 withdrawn and the 11 and 16 already being retained.
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Post by evergreenadam on Nov 26, 2022 14:02:02 GMT
So those modifications that are going ahead. 3 to Victoria rather than Whitehall via the current Red Arrow route 507 being axed. 6 to Victoria. 11 will operate to Waterloo diverted via current 211. 16 Paddington to Brent Park (rebranded 332) 26 to Victoria (N26 extended to Victoria from Trafalgar Sq) 59 to St. Barts via Holborn 77 terminates at Waterloo Taxi Road 133 to Holborn replacing part of the 521 (no change to N133) 211 to Battersea Power Station (11 will go to Waterloo via the current route) 332 rebranded as Route 16. 507 axed 521 axed C10 re-routed between Lambeth Palace Road and Waterloo to cover a Red Arrow route being axed. N11 to operate between Trafalgar Sq and Ealing Broadway. N32 replaces the N16. The renumbering of route 332 to 16 still means the withdrawal of the connection from Victoria to Kilburn and Cricklewood. Routes 507 & 521 were basically commuter routes but there has of course been a significant reduction in commuting due to working from home. The Cricklewood link to Oxford Street/Marble Arch and Victoria finally being severed after being a trunk route in the form of the 16, 16a and 616 express over the years. I suppose Cricklewood and Kilburn have changed a lot over the years, the huge Irish community that worked in the shops, hotels and bars in the West End and on the building sites are now almost all gone. The Jubilee Line from Kilburn is also much more frequent than it used to and the bus is slower.
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Post by rif153 on Nov 26, 2022 17:05:21 GMT
So those modifications that are going ahead. 3 to Victoria rather than Whitehall via the current Red Arrow route 507 being axed. 6 to Victoria. 11 will operate to Waterloo diverted via current 211. 16 Paddington to Brent Park (rebranded 332) 26 to Victoria (N26 extended to Victoria from Trafalgar Sq) 59 to St. Barts via Holborn 77 terminates at Waterloo Taxi Road 133 to Holborn replacing part of the 521 (no change to N133) 211 to Battersea Power Station (11 will go to Waterloo via the current route) 332 rebranded as Route 16. 507 axed 521 axed C10 re-routed between Lambeth Palace Road and Waterloo to cover a Red Arrow route being axed. N11 to operate between Trafalgar Sq and Ealing Broadway. N32 replaces the N16. The renumbering of route 332 to 16 still means the withdrawal of the connection from Victoria to Kilburn and Cricklewood. Routes 507 & 521 were basically commuter routes but there has of course been a significant reduction in commuting due to working from home. No real surprise the red arrows were seen as low hanging fruit not ruffling as many feathers as routes people rely on to go to Central London. Think its a shame the 507's nifty links will be no more, commuters were really all that sustained the 521 and the City does feel quieter.
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Post by vjaska on Nov 26, 2022 21:30:37 GMT
The renumbering of route 332 to 16 still means the withdrawal of the connection from Victoria to Kilburn and Cricklewood. Routes 507 & 521 were basically commuter routes but there has of course been a significant reduction in commuting due to working from home. No real surprise the red arrows were seen as low hanging fruit not ruffling as many feathers as routes people rely on to go to Central London. Think its a shame the 507's nifty links will be no more, commuters were really all that sustained the 521 and the City does feel quieter. Ironically, anytime I've passed the 521 in the last couple of months, the loadings have been surprisingly busier than even I'd thought they'd be, not suggesting they should stay or go but thought it was rather apt to mention.
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Post by abellion on Nov 26, 2022 22:10:45 GMT
No real surprise the red arrows were seen as low hanging fruit not ruffling as many feathers as routes people rely on to go to Central London. Think its a shame the 507's nifty links will be no more, commuters were really all that sustained the 521 and the City does feel quieter. Ironically, anytime I've passed the 521 in the last couple of months, the loadings have been surprisingly busier than even I'd thought they'd be, not suggesting they should stay or go but thought it was rather apt to mention. I agree with the 507 and 521 actually being decently busy recently, and not just those two. Go anywhere busy in Central London and there will be plenty of full top decks, especially in the peaks! The numbers say otherwise but I don’t think it’s fair to disregard the high demand for buses because they aren’t at the same level as before a huge pandemic which led to non stop frequency cuts.
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Post by greg on Nov 26, 2022 23:06:54 GMT
Ironically, anytime I've passed the 521 in the last couple of months, the loadings have been surprisingly busier than even I'd thought they'd be, not suggesting they should stay or go but thought it was rather apt to mention. I agree with the 507 and 521 actually being decently busy recently, and not just those two. Go anywhere busy in Central London and there will be plenty of full top decks, especially in the peaks! The numbers say otherwise but I don’t think it’s fair to disregard the high demand for buses because they aren’t at the same level as before a huge pandemic which led to non stop frequency cuts. Last month, I was on a 507 from Victoria to Waterloo and the bus was packed to the doors by the time we got to Strutton Ground. It was a very good benefit especially for those accessing or working around Westminster and St Thomas Hospital. Also avoids the often disrupted Westminster Bridge. I have used the 521 occassionally which has been quieter, but as most of the route is mirrored by the 8, I do see why its withdrawal could be plausible. Therefore, I do agree with the 59/133 changes but I would say that route 68 would have been the better option as the 59 is the busier route, and you'll have the 1 (168) still connect as far as Elephant. I also want to bring my point of that if restructures were made to the 507 and 521 where they ran like school routes and only run during peak hours and be saved, this could have been a safer option. The 7am-9am and 4-6pm operation ONLY on the 507 and 521 (Monday to Friday only) would have been able to keep its numbers and save TFL alone a good proportion of money. They could be decked and link with day routes to save costs and have a lower PVR and also frequency, like every 4-5 minutes. For example, 507 run from Q and linked with route 12 using LTs or 521 from BW (haha) linked with vehicles from routes 8/25. The 3 replacing the 507 isnt too bad of an idea to be honest, but it would stipl benefit from a 507 service. 521 could be rerouted to not use Strand Underpass
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Post by vjaska on Nov 27, 2022 5:01:59 GMT
I agree with the 507 and 521 actually being decently busy recently, and not just those two. Go anywhere busy in Central London and there will be plenty of full top decks, especially in the peaks! The numbers say otherwise but I don’t think it’s fair to disregard the high demand for buses because they aren’t at the same level as before a huge pandemic which led to non stop frequency cuts. Last month, I was on a 507 from Victoria to Waterloo and the bus was packed to the doors by the time we got to Strutton Ground. It was a very good benefit especially for those accessing or working around Westminster and St Thomas Hospital. Also avoids the often disrupted Westminster Bridge. I have used the 521 occassionally which has been quieter, but as most of the route is mirrored by the 8, I do see why its withdrawal could be plausible. Therefore, I do agree with the 59/133 changes but I would say that route 68 would have been the better option as the 59 is the busier route, and you'll have the 1 (168) still connect as far as Elephant. I also want to bring my point of that if restructures were made to the 507 and 521 where they ran like school routes and only run during peak hours and be saved, this could have been a safer option. The 7am-9am and 4-6pm operation ONLY on the 507 and 521 (Monday to Friday only) would have been able to keep its numbers and save TFL alone a good proportion of money. They could be decked and link with day routes to save costs and have a lower PVR and also frequency, like every 4-5 minutes. For example, 507 run from Q and linked with route 12 using LTs or 521 from BW (haha) linked with vehicles from routes 8/25. The 3 replacing the 507 isnt too bad of an idea to be honest, but it would stipl benefit from a 507 service. 521 could be rerouted to not use Strand Underpass The routes chosen to replace the 507 & 521 are the wrong ones - a lot of the passengers wanting Victoria from the south would get off at Brixton for the Victoria Line or the 2 and the residents south of Herne Hill on the 3 are known to prefer a link into some part of Central London - really, the 3 should of been restored to Oxford Circus or diverted to Tottenham Court Road as proposed previously. As for the 59 & 133, diverting them away from Euston & Russell Square brings far less to the table for passengers from the south where despite the Northern Line shadowing a chunk of the 133, there is still plenty of demand towards Liverpool Street and St Bart’s is a destination for useful for East London residents given what trust it resides in and why the 56 terminating there made far more sense than the 133 serving it when most people from the south use Guys, Tommies or Kings College.
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Post by Alexis on Nov 28, 2022 19:19:17 GMT
No real surprise the red arrows were seen as low hanging fruit not ruffling as many feathers as routes people rely on to go to Central London. Think its a shame the 507's nifty links will be no more, commuters were really all that sustained the 521 and the City does feel quieter. Ironically, anytime I've passed the 521 in the last couple of months, the loadings have been surprisingly busier than even I'd thought they'd be, not suggesting they should stay or go but thought it was rather apt to mention. I've noticed the same, I was at London Bridge bus station at around 5pm last week and the 521s arriving were pretty full
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Post by borneobus on Nov 28, 2022 21:05:43 GMT
Ironically, anytime I've passed the 521 in the last couple of months, the loadings have been surprisingly busier than even I'd thought they'd be, not suggesting they should stay or go but thought it was rather apt to mention. I've noticed the same, I was at London Bridge bus station at around 5pm last week and the 521s arriving were pretty full ...and just one observation but I travelled on a 521 e2e last Tuesday and around 15 boarded at London Bridge on a service departing just before 3pm and remained reasonably busy throughout the 25 minute trip to Waterloo...
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darz
Conductor
Posts: 99
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Post by darz on Nov 28, 2022 23:38:30 GMT
Ironically, anytime I've passed the 521 in the last couple of months, the loadings have been surprisingly busier than even I'd thought they'd be, not suggesting they should stay or go but thought it was rather apt to mention. I've noticed the same, I was at London Bridge bus station at around 5pm last week and the 521s arriving were pretty full It’s a shame both routes are very well used, also realised that Waterloo looses its Bank Link
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Post by evergreenadam on Nov 29, 2022 8:23:36 GMT
I've noticed the same, I was at London Bridge bus station at around 5pm last week and the 521s arriving were pretty full It’s a shame both routes are very well used, also realised that Waterloo looses its Bank Link Am sure TfL would prefer us to use the Waterloo & City Line.
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Post by ADH45258 on Nov 29, 2022 10:49:15 GMT
I've noticed the same, I was at London Bridge bus station at around 5pm last week and the 521s arriving were pretty full It’s a shame both routes are very well used, also realised that Waterloo looses its Bank Link The 26 would have been more direct anyway than the 521 - another reason why the 26 should have been kept to Waterloo, since the 76 no longer serves Bank. Could have just extended the 15 from Trafalgar Square to Victoria instead?
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Post by greenboy on Nov 29, 2022 12:14:57 GMT
It’s a shame both routes are very well used, also realised that Waterloo looses its Bank Link The 26 would have been more direct anyway than the 521 - another reason why the 26 should have been kept to Waterloo, since the 76 no longer serves Bank. Could have just extended the 15 from Trafalgar Square to Victoria instead? Yes I think there was a case for keeping the 26 as it is for the Waterloo to Liverpool Street link although as mentioned TfL would rather people use the W&C for Bank. The 15 could have gone to Victoria as you say, another touristy route, and the 76 be rerouted to Trafalgar Square.
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Post by evergreenadam on Nov 29, 2022 17:02:31 GMT
The 26 would have been more direct anyway than the 521 - another reason why the 26 should have been kept to Waterloo, since the 76 no longer serves Bank. Could have just extended the 15 from Trafalgar Square to Victoria instead? Yes I think there was a case for keeping the 26 as it is for the Waterloo to Liverpool Street link although as mentioned TfL would rather people use the W&C for Bank. The 15 could have gone to Victoria as you say, another touristy route, and the 76 be rerouted to Trafalgar Square. Then you would lose the Trafalgar Square/Whitehall/Victoria Street to Liverpool Street link provided by route 11, which is what they were trying to replicate by extending the 26 to Victoria.
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