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Post by LondonNorthern on Feb 7, 2022 22:30:03 GMT
The issues in this consultation for me as a local are the indirect routing of the 263 which has prospered on its direct routing through Archway & Highgate, loss of capacity between Archway & Highbury (hence why the 263 was extended), the number of journeys broken from Highgate High Street to East End Road.
I'd say out of the routes between Archway and Nags Head if you had to remove one I'd say the 17 would the best one to although that's only going off "least used"
The 17 is important for Caledonian Road to Archway journeys (eg for Whittington Hospital where patients in Islington get referred, and for Northern Line stations north of Archway). There isn't really an alternative especially because there would be no same-stop interchange (would involve crossing busy Tufnell Park Road/Tollington Road. Yes and I acknowledge that however I went off least used. I would not consider it useless though and would agree it has lots of purposes.
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Post by WH241 on Feb 16, 2022 10:03:22 GMT
Evening Standard has published a article about the proposed cuts! Shame they used a photo of a 453!
TfL: Everything you need to know about upcoming London bus service cuts
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Post by DT 11 on Feb 16, 2022 10:48:16 GMT
Evening Standard has published a article about the proposed cuts! Shame they used a photo of a 453! TfL: Everything you need to know about upcoming London bus service cuts That picture of the packed 141 was probably during the peaks. Overall don’t see why the 21 would be as busy as the 141 as it terminates at Newington Green which is dull...
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Post by southlondonbus on Feb 16, 2022 21:21:31 GMT
I think the 21/271 will have more opposition then the 1/168 will. The latter will be harder to argue with as both routes remain largely intact.
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Post by BE37054 (quoll662) on Feb 16, 2022 21:27:53 GMT
Evening Standard has published a article about the proposed cuts! Shame they used a photo of a 453! TfL: Everything you need to know about upcoming London bus service cuts That picture of the packed 141 was probably during the peaks. Overall don’t see why the 21 would be as busy as the 141 as it terminates at Newington Green which is dull... Talking of - that looked like a Stagecoach bus. Was this one of the 34 ones that escaped refurb (did any?) or was this a 'stock photo' of a busy bus, like the 453 pictured at the top?
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Post by csmspotting on Feb 16, 2022 21:53:42 GMT
The 271 is often advertised by train operators to use when the line between Finsbury Park and Moorgate is closed. If the 21 is rerouted to Holloway, would rerouting of the 263 to serve Newington Green instead of Highbury Barn be a good idea? Highbury Grove is already served by many frequent bus routes and not much of a connection will be lost.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Feb 16, 2022 22:00:08 GMT
The 271 is often advertised by train operators to use when the line between Finsbury Park and Moorgate is closed. If the 21 is rerouted to Holloway, would rerouting of the 263 to serve Newington Green instead of Highbury Barn be a good idea? Highbury Grove is already served by many frequent bus routes and not much of a connection will be lost. Dalston would be more of a place of demand but Newington Green does have some nice shops round the green area. It would also create a Holloway/Archway/Arsenal to Dalston link. I never understood why the 263 had to go to Highbury Barn, it’s not needed east of Highbury Corner and I know the 4/19 used to get crowded towards Finsbury Park from H&I, but with rail improvements, a more reliable service on the 19/236 & a slightly more reliable service on the 4 the need for the 263 going there is now non existent. The 19/236 used to constantly get curtailed to Highbury Barn so that’s why I say it had gotten a more reliable service as lots of 19s go through to FPK now.
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Post by TB123 on Feb 16, 2022 22:14:28 GMT
The 271 is often advertised by train operators to use when the line between Finsbury Park and Moorgate is closed. If the 21 is rerouted to Holloway, would rerouting of the 263 to serve Newington Green instead of Highbury Barn be a good idea? Highbury Grove is already served by many frequent bus routes and not much of a connection will be lost. The whole reason the 21 is being diverted away from Newington green is that the 141 has enough capacity on that stretch. Read the consultation properly.
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Post by southlondonbus on Feb 16, 2022 22:17:05 GMT
The 271 is often advertised by train operators to use when the line between Finsbury Park and Moorgate is closed. If the 21 is rerouted to Holloway, would rerouting of the 263 to serve Newington Green instead of Highbury Barn be a good idea? Highbury Grove is already served by many frequent bus routes and not much of a connection will be lost. Dalston would be more of a place of demand but Newington Green does have some nice shops round the green area. It would also create a Holloway/Archway/Arsenal to Dalston link. I never understood why the 263 had to go to Highbury Barn, it’s not needed east of Highbury Corner and I know the 4/19 used to get crowded towards Finsbury Park from H&I, but with rail improvements, a more reliable service on the 19/236 & a slightly more reliable service on the 4 the need for the 263 going there is now non existent. The 19/236 used to constantly get curtailed to Highbury Barn so that’s why I say it had gotten a more reliable service as lots of 19s go through to FPK now. I think main reason for Highbury Barn is due to lack of stand space at H&I station. Already the 277 had to clear out so it would have been hard for the 263 to stand anywhere else but the Barn.
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Post by enviroPB on Feb 17, 2022 2:41:32 GMT
The 271 is often advertised by train operators to use when the line between Finsbury Park and Moorgate is closed. If the 21 is rerouted to Holloway, would rerouting of the 263 to serve Newington Green instead of Highbury Barn be a good idea? Highbury Grove is already served by many frequent bus routes and not much of a connection will be lost. The whole reason the 21 is being diverted away from Newington green is that the 141 has enough capacity on that stretch. Read the consultation properly. Debatable. The Baring Road corridor would see the 21 removed and the 76 trimmed in frequency, leaving the 141 to pick up a lot of weight. I won't be surprised if the 141 gets a minor frequency readjustment after the 21 is routed away from Newington Green.
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Post by TB123 on Feb 17, 2022 10:27:37 GMT
The whole reason the 21 is being diverted away from Newington green is that the 141 has enough capacity on that stretch. Read the consultation properly. Debatable. The Baring Road corridor would see the 21 removed and the 76 trimmed in frequency, leaving the 141 to pick up a lot of weight. I won't be surprised if the 141 gets a minor frequency readjustment after the 21 is routed away from Newington Green. The usage data shows otherwise, so it's hardly debatable unfortunately. Usage of buses in inner London has fallen considerably in the last 10 years and has accelerated in the last 2 years. We are looking at a bus network generally more akin to pre2003, when that section had just the 76 and 141.
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Post by southlondonbus on Feb 17, 2022 11:10:02 GMT
Debatable. The Baring Road corridor would see the 21 removed and the 76 trimmed in frequency, leaving the 141 to pick up a lot of weight. I won't be surprised if the 141 gets a minor frequency readjustment after the 21 is routed away from Newington Green. The usage data shows otherwise, so it's hardly debatable unfortunately. Usage of buses in inner London has fallen considerably in the last 10 years and has accelerated in the last 2 years. We are looking at a bus network generally more akin to pre2003, when that section had just the 76 and 141. 2010 added London Overground stations at Haggerston and Hoxton which undoubtedly took a bit of demand away.
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Post by vjaska on Feb 17, 2022 12:29:03 GMT
Debatable. The Baring Road corridor would see the 21 removed and the 76 trimmed in frequency, leaving the 141 to pick up a lot of weight. I won't be surprised if the 141 gets a minor frequency readjustment after the 21 is routed away from Newington Green. The usage data shows otherwise, so it's hardly debatable unfortunately. Usage of buses in inner London has fallen considerably in the last 10 years and has accelerated in the last 2 years. We are looking at a bus network generally more akin to pre2003, when that section had just the 76 and 141. But this isn’t exactly reflected like that across all of Inner London and some of the loss of patronage is actually different in different parts of Inner London and usually affects the routes running into the Central area. The routes that don’t do this have generally seen only small losses and to add, Inner London has low car usage which is why it’s important to stress that cutting Inner London to pieces could have a lasting detrimental impact not just to buses but to congestion & the environment as car usage has already been to increase in areas which have low car ownership like Lambeth
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Post by southlondonbus on Feb 17, 2022 12:35:18 GMT
The usage data shows otherwise, so it's hardly debatable unfortunately. Usage of buses in inner London has fallen considerably in the last 10 years and has accelerated in the last 2 years. We are looking at a bus network generally more akin to pre2003, when that section had just the 76 and 141. But this isn’t exactly reflected like that across all of Inner London and some of the loss of patronage is actually different in different parts of Inner London and usually affects the routes running into the Central area. The routes that don’t do this have generally seen only small losses and to add, Inner London has low car usage which is why it’s important to stress that cutting Inner London to pieces could have a lasting detrimental impact not just to buses but to congestion & the environment as car usage has already been to increase in areas which have low car ownership like Lambeth But that's probably why they have done their review on a corridor by corridor basis. Hence finding that the same capacity is needed between H&I and Nags Head (hence the 21 extension) but not between Nags Head and Archway (which is why the 271 is being left to the 17, 43 and 263).
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Post by vjaska on Feb 17, 2022 14:33:19 GMT
But this isn’t exactly reflected like that across all of Inner London and some of the loss of patronage is actually different in different parts of Inner London and usually affects the routes running into the Central area. The routes that don’t do this have generally seen only small losses and to add, Inner London has low car usage which is why it’s important to stress that cutting Inner London to pieces could have a lasting detrimental impact not just to buses but to congestion & the environment as car usage has already been to increase in areas which have low car ownership like Lambeth But that's probably why they have done their review on a corridor by corridor basis. Hence finding that the same capacity is needed between H&I and Nags Head (hence the 21 extension) but not between Nags Head and Archway (which is why the 271 is being left to the 17, 43 and 263). Some of their 'reviews' do not match though - for example, the A23 corridor south of Kennington has not recessed as much as some might like to think yet several routes have been cut and unnecessary rumours floating around of yet more. Couple that with LTN's being implemented and a lack of positive messaging about public transport in general, it's no wonder why car usage even in low ownership areas has started increasing.
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