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Post by ibus246 on Sept 23, 2022 20:43:33 GMT
Demand on every single trip to the point that there are currently trips leaving people behind? You literally double the cost of the route overnight - when you do the sums, I can categorically tell you that you will not be able to put a successful business case. I used to regularly (years ago) use the last X26 from Kingston back to Croydon and it was very quiet - the 285 covers the other part already near enough. Yes I can tell you from personal experience I have been left behind many times, and have also stood for over an hour on crush loaded buses multiple times. I have also seen wheelchair users left behind due to overcrowding and the use of single doored buses blocking their entry. The last X26 from Kingston is at 1:03am, obviously its not going to be that busy at that time. Late evenings can probably stay at 2bph, but from about 6am - 10pm, 4bph is definitely necessary, and I would even say a priority for TfL that is basically guaranteed to be successful. If you’ve been left behind “multiple times” more fool for you for continuing to attempt to catch it; but that’s a separate subject. Do you really think 4bph would be justified until 10pm? I’ll get some hourly boardings for you pre-covid and see if you still come to that conclusion. Hold tight |
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Post by southlondon413 on Sept 23, 2022 20:52:16 GMT
It’s not at that point but it is very busy. When they implemented the change to 2bph it wasn’t an immediate overnight increase but during the QL tenure it got much busier to the point where it converted to DD under GAL. It carried 1.8m passengers in 2019/20, which is more than a lot of regular stopping services. That was more than half of what the 285 carried and around 40% of what the 213 did that year, both are major comparison routes. Personally I think the cost is worth it because with the x26 if it’s there people will use it. The x26 has been a success story and if not 4bph than a minimum 3bph would be suitable first. Ok and you’d be willing to pay a premium to travel on it? Why would you need to pay a premium. It could easily be paid for once some of the central London cuts free capital for outer London as promised by TfL. I can almost guarantee it would be well used, support staff at Heathrow and would be a welcome increase in the face of reductions to the 213. |
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Post by ibus246 on Sept 23, 2022 20:54:24 GMT
Ok and you’d be willing to pay a premium to travel on it? Why would you need to pay a premium. It could easily be paid for once some of the central London cuts free capital for outer London as promised by TfL. I can almost guarantee it would be well used, support staff at Heathrow and would be a welcome increase in the face of reductions to the 213. You didn’t answer - would you be willing to pay a premium to travel on the service? |
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Post by southlondon413 on Sept 23, 2022 21:00:45 GMT
Why would you need to pay a premium. It could easily be paid for once some of the central London cuts free capital for outer London as promised by TfL. I can almost guarantee it would be well used, support staff at Heathrow and would be a welcome increase in the face of reductions to the 213. You didn’t answer - would you be willing to pay a premium to travel on the service? If I had to yes, but you didn’t answer my question either. At the end of the day I have provided justification for an increase to 4bph and you don’t want it because it was empty on the last journey, which isn’t a reflection of the experiences many have told you about during the day and late evenings. I‘ve even told you where the funding could come from but you have yet to provide an actual reason why it wouldn’t be welcomed or work. Not today satan, I’m too d*mn old and it’s too late for this poo. |
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Post by greenboy on Sept 23, 2022 21:44:33 GMT
Demand on every single trip to the point that there are currently trips leaving people behind? You literally double the cost of the route overnight - when you do the sums, I can categorically tell you that you will not be able to put a successful business case. I used to regularly (years ago) use the last X26 from Kingston back to Croydon and it was very quiet - the 285 covers the other part already near enough. Yes I can tell you from personal experience I have been left behind many times, and have also stood for over an hour on crush loaded buses multiple times. I have also seen wheelchair users left behind due to overcrowding and the use of single doored buses blocking their entry. The last X26 from Kingston is at 1:03am, obviously its not going to be that busy at that time. Late evenings can probably stay at 2bph, but from about 6am - 10pm, 4bph is definitely necessary, and I would even say a priority for TfL that is basically guaranteed to be successful. With bus services being cut not only in London but all over the country I'm amazed that you think the X26 service should be doubled in frequency. Do you think £1.65 Croydon to Heathrow is viable? Maybe you should be grateful for what you've got? |
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Post by ibus246 on Sept 23, 2022 22:16:53 GMT
You didn’t answer - would you be willing to pay a premium to travel on the service? If I had to yes, but you didn’t answer my question either. At the end of the day I have provided justification for an increase to 4bph and you don’t want it because it was empty on the last journey, which isn’t a reflection of the experiences many have told you about during the day and late evenings. I‘ve even told you where the funding could come from but you have yet to provide an actual reason why it wouldn’t be welcomed or work. Not today satan, I’m too d*mn old and it’s too late for this poo. Err no. The difference between me and you is I’m more than happy to provide quantified data disproving your argument. TfL doesn’t work by “ad-hoc” and “off the cuff” random observations of buses at random times - it is data driven. Who is “many”? It’s you and one other person. Try writing a business case for the frequency increase with your justification and see how far it gets you. Hey, guess what, I was on a busy 246 yesterday afternoon and again on Monday. It defiantly needs a frequency increase to x15(!!!) |
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Post by southlondon413 on Sept 23, 2022 22:25:42 GMT
If I had to yes, but you didn’t answer my question either. At the end of the day I have provided justification for an increase to 4bph and you don’t want it because it was empty on the last journey, which isn’t a reflection of the experiences many have told you about during the day and late evenings. I‘ve even told you where the funding could come from but you have yet to provide an actual reason why it wouldn’t be welcomed or work. Not today satan, I’m too d*mn old and it’s too late for this poo. Err no. The difference between me and you is I’m more than happy to provide quantified data disproving your argument. TfL doesn’t work by “ad-hoc” and “off the cuff” random observations of buses at random times - it is data driven. Who is “many”? It’s you and one other person. Try writing a business case for the frequency increase with your justification and see how far it gets you. Hey, guess what, I was on a busy 246 yesterday afternoon and again on Monday. It defiantly needs a frequency increase to x15(!!!) Are you being deliberately obtuse? I have looked at usage data from the last 10 years and used my own experiences, check my earlier comment ls. You haven’t provided anything to back your claims up. Just f**k off because you are really peeing me off with your ridiculousness. |
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Post by TB123 on Sept 23, 2022 23:01:43 GMT
Err no. The difference between me and you is I’m more than happy to provide quantified data disproving your argument. TfL doesn’t work by “ad-hoc” and “off the cuff” random observations of buses at random times - it is data driven. Who is “many”? It’s you and one other person. Try writing a business case for the frequency increase with your justification and see how far it gets you. Hey, guess what, I was on a busy 246 yesterday afternoon and again on Monday. It defiantly needs a frequency increase to x15(!!!) Are you being deliberately obtuse? I have looked at usage data from the last 10 years and used my own experiences, check my earlier comment ls. You haven’t provided anything to back your claims up. Just f**k off because you are really peeing me off with your ridiculousness. Gosh, someone needs to take a chill pill. If someone presenting an inch of facts and logic does this to you then my goodness! |
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Post by londonbuses on Sept 24, 2022 0:07:25 GMT
If you’ve been left behind “multiple times” more fool for you for continuing to attempt to catch it; but that’s a separate subject. Do you really think 4bph would be justified until 10pm? I’ll get some hourly boardings for you pre-covid and see if you still come to that conclusion. Hold tight Being left behind doesn't make me a fool, the 213/285/407 serve the same stops as the X26, so if I end up being left behind, I just get the slower bus and accept the slightly longer journey. By 10pm, I meant the higher frequency service reaches its terminus, so this would mean the frequency reducing to 2bph out of Heathrow and Croydon around 8:30ish. Yes I believe 4bph is justified until then at least. Reducing the 407 from 5bph to 4bph, and changing the 151 in some form to not duplicate a large section of the 213 could be done as part of these changes as well. |
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Post by ibus246 on Sept 24, 2022 3:17:10 GMT
Err no. The difference between me and you is I’m more than happy to provide quantified data disproving your argument. TfL doesn’t work by “ad-hoc” and “off the cuff” random observations of buses at random times - it is data driven. Who is “many”? It’s you and one other person. Try writing a business case for the frequency increase with your justification and see how far it gets you. Hey, guess what, I was on a busy 246 yesterday afternoon and again on Monday. It defiantly needs a frequency increase to x15(!!!) Are you being deliberately obtuse? I have looked at usage data from the last 10 years and used my own experiences, check my earlier comment ls. You haven’t provided anything to back your claims up. Just f**k off because you are really peeing me off with your ridiculousness. Oh dear. Sorry you don’t like the answer! |
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Post by southlondonbus on Sept 24, 2022 7:17:50 GMT
If you’ve been left behind “multiple times” more fool for you for continuing to attempt to catch it; but that’s a separate subject. Do you really think 4bph would be justified until 10pm? I’ll get some hourly boardings for you pre-covid and see if you still come to that conclusion. Hold tight Being left behind doesn't make me a fool, the 213/285/407 serve the same stops as the X26, so if I end up being left behind, I just get the slower bus and accept the slightly longer journey. By 10pm, I meant the higher frequency service reaches its terminus, so this would mean the frequency reducing to 2bph out of Heathrow and Croydon around 8:30ish. Yes I believe 4bph is justified until then at least. Reducing the 407 from 5bph to 4bph, and changing the 151 in some form to not duplicate a large section of the 213 could be done as part of these changes as well. I was expecting before the Sutton changes came out that the 151 might have been cut back to either North Cheam or Sutton in part due to the 213 and X26 being more frequent (plus the X26 now being DD aswell). Clearly TFL must have felt there would have been a backlash loosing the St Helier Link from WP. |
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Post by route53 on Nov 22, 2022 16:17:27 GMT
It is a bit of a pie in the sky one I must admit (and selfishly allows me to get to my office in one go!!!). I have tried avoiding hotspots to the extent possible but yes it will be a long one I think that's the issue with any express/limited stop routes that don't traverse along less congested corridors and operate in Inner London (X68 has the luxury of avoiding the problematic part of the A23 whilst the corridor from West Norwood onwards isn't the worst to traverse) as well as providing niches that don't exists like the X26, X68 & X140 serving areas or particular places that has no direct rail or tube links to & from. The 53 does follow loosely Southeastern from Deptford onwards which is why I thought it was an odd one to choose by TfL over more orbital links instead but if enough adequate priority is implemented, then that could change my mind on the idea. I'm quite surprised TfL have not decided to trial a new express route in Outer London which should be easier to manage & implement. The 53 doesn’t really parallel Southeastern as such, it does take a unique corridor that avoids both Greenwich and Lewisham hubs plus the 53 almost avoids the Woolwich line, it serves Charlton Village rather than Lower Charlton where the station is and Blackheath Royal Standard rather than Blackheath village, it intersects in between the lines by serving areas where the stations are quite a long way off, unlike the 89 route where that does stop for stop follow the Bexleyheath line, except for Eltham. |
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Post by vjaska on Nov 22, 2022 17:05:10 GMT
I think that's the issue with any express/limited stop routes that don't traverse along less congested corridors and operate in Inner London (X68 has the luxury of avoiding the problematic part of the A23 whilst the corridor from West Norwood onwards isn't the worst to traverse) as well as providing niches that don't exists like the X26, X68 & X140 serving areas or particular places that has no direct rail or tube links to & from. The 53 does follow loosely Southeastern from Deptford onwards which is why I thought it was an odd one to choose by TfL over more orbital links instead but if enough adequate priority is implemented, then that could change my mind on the idea. I'm quite surprised TfL have not decided to trial a new express route in Outer London which should be easier to manage & implement. The 53 doesn’t really parallel Southeastern as such, it does take a unique corridor that avoids both Greenwich and Lewisham hubs plus the 53 almost avoids the Woolwich line, it serves Charlton Village rather than Lower Charlton where the station is and Blackheath Royal Standard rather than Blackheath village, it intersects in between the lines by serving areas where the stations are quite a long way off, unlike the 89 route where that does stop for stop follow the Bexleyheath line, except for Eltham. I did say loosely in all fairness |
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Nov 22, 2022 17:20:36 GMT
Quickest way train via London Bridge? It’s a lot cheaper to get the 269 & 119, and more pleasant than going all the way to Central London and back out again as well especially during the rush hours. There’s not much in it time wise as well, and I’ve saved money and not been squeezed in like a baked bean on 2 sweaty trains. An even better and cheaper method is to use the Elizabeth line from Woolwich to Whitechapel and then Whitechapel to West Croydon on the Overground, both TfL modes. |
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Post by route53 on Nov 22, 2022 18:09:47 GMT
The 53 doesn’t really parallel Southeastern as such, it does take a unique corridor that avoids both Greenwich and Lewisham hubs plus the 53 almost avoids the Woolwich line, it serves Charlton Village rather than Lower Charlton where the station is and Blackheath Royal Standard rather than Blackheath village, it intersects in between the lines by serving areas where the stations are quite a long way off, unlike the 89 route where that does stop for stop follow the Bexleyheath line, except for Eltham. I did say loosely in all fairness I know that I was just adding my thoughts 😊 The 177 is a direct parallel to the Woolwich line from Deptford to Abbey Wood stop for stop pretty much. |
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