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Post by rift on Mar 31, 2023 23:46:14 GMT
Definitely something along the 53 route would have been good with say 3 stops on the Old Kent Road to speed up journeys to Elephant and the west end in lieu of no tube line. It would only be good if the relevant infrastructure was put in to speed the buses up OKR really should have a bus lane running the whole length up to Elephant where it’s possible, the 20mph restrictions don’t help at all either. |
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Post by h0pidol on Apr 3, 2023 14:20:58 GMT
I'd suggest this for a SE London orbital route: X25 or X29 West Croydon to Bluewater Stops at West Croydon, East Croydon, Shirley Library, West Wickham High Street, Hayes Station, Bromley South, Bromley Town Centre, Bickley, Chislehurst Station, Chislehurst War Memorial, Queen Mary Hospital, Sidcup Town Centre, Sidcup Station, Albany Park, Bexley, Dartford, Darent Valley Hospital and Bluewater. Not sure that’s much of a winner, I’m afraid. I have my doubts about an express service stopping at Shirley, and the 96 already does an express run to Bluewater from Dartford. I still would rather see Bexleyheath - Sidcup - Bromley - Croydon with whatever stops are deemed necessary. Living in the West Wickham area, I don’t think an express 119 should be serving Hayes or West Wickham, as this is what slows down the current 119 route. An X119 could perhaps divert off the current route at Bethlem Hospital, running down Monks Orchard Road, South Eden Park Road, Hayes Lane and Westmoreland Road to serve Bromley South. A stop may be justified in the Eden Park area, to serve the Langley schools, railway station and reduce the local reliance on the 358 for journeys to Bromley, a route already restricted by the low bridge at Shortlands. |
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Post by rjbarrett5 on Jul 4, 2023 23:41:42 GMT
I would very much prefer if the Superloop and the express network were split; incorporating the likes of 607 and X68 in the network is daft and really defeats the purpose of the SuperLOOP. Instead, i reckon there should be a focus on express routes running particularly on some of the busiest corridors in the city.
Routes such as:
X15 - Trafalgar Square - Romford Market
X36 - Oxford Circus - Chislehurst (N136)
X29 - Trafalgar Square - Enfield
X109 - Oxford Circus - Croydon Town Centre (N109)
X53 - Whitehall - Thamesmead (via Lewisham)
X149 - Liverpool Street - Waltham Cross
X18 - Euston - Harrow Weald
X89 - Trafalgar Square - Bexleyheath
Could be viable.
There are issues with the length of these routes, but I struggle to see the running times for them exceeding 90 minutes.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jul 5, 2023 0:00:33 GMT
I would very much prefer if the Superloop and the express network were split; incorporating the likes of 607 and X68 in the network is daft and really defeats the purpose of the SuperLOOP. Instead, i reckon there should be a focus on express routes running particularly on some of the busiest corridors in the city. Routes such as: X15 - Trafalgar Square - Romford Market X36 - Oxford Circus - Chislehurst (N136) X29 - Trafalgar Square - Enfield X109 - Oxford Circus - Croydon Town Centre (N109) X53 - Whitehall - Thamesmead (via Lewisham) X149 - Liverpool Street - Waltham Cross X18 - Euston - Harrow Weald X89 - Trafalgar Square - Bexleyheath Could be viable. There are issues with the length of these routes, but I struggle to see the running times for them exceeding 90 minutes. I cannot see the X15 at all at that length. You would struggle to even achieve that time in a car non stop let alone a bus. The X29 could be possible but at the best of times especially in the peaks you would be lucky to get over that in 90 mins. Harringey council has ruined the Wood Green and Harringey area with LTN's With any roadworks you may as well just pee in the wind. Many of those routes are a dead duck as TfL would just site the train as an excuse not to run them. |
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Post by borneobus on Jul 5, 2023 0:14:53 GMT
I would very much prefer if the Superloop and the express network were split; incorporating the likes of 607 and X68 in the network is daft and really defeats the purpose of the SuperLOOP. Instead, i reckon there should be a focus on express routes running particularly on some of the busiest corridors in the city. Routes such as: X15 - Trafalgar Square - Romford Market X36 - Oxford Circus - Chislehurst (N136) X29 - Trafalgar Square - Enfield X109 - Oxford Circus - Croydon Town Centre (N109) X53 - Whitehall - Thamesmead (via Lewisham) X149 - Liverpool Street - Waltham Cross X18 - Euston - Harrow Weald X89 - Trafalgar Square - Bexleyheath Could be viable. There are issues with the length of these routes, but I struggle to see the running times for them exceeding 90 minutes. I think the Superloop is on paper a great idea, and hope that operationally it works well but ultimately pax numbers / changes in pax behaviour will be the judge of success. I cannot understand why the 607 and X68 are included, it's confusing particularly with the way the X68 operates... Like your proposed routes! Having said that some members may be able to raise legitimate concerns about how these long routes would operate / interact with existing routes. |
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Post by rif153 on Jul 5, 2023 6:02:56 GMT
Its very easy to look at these long corridors where night routes run and suggest having express routes along them. However, long express routes from the centre to zone 6 would be a nightmare to operate to the point where they may not even have much of a time advantage over the stopping bus. This is before mentioning that not enough people would travel long distances on such routes to make them viable, because of how long it would take. You could go back home to Romford on the Elizabeth line, relax with a cuppa, your feet up and the tele on before the X15 has even passed Barking. The X68 is unique as the only commuter route from zone one and is successful because it serves a corridor with poor rail connections and the long non stop section helps make it genuinely faster, if it was limited stop like the 607 it would be used by people living in Camberwell for short hops and very marginal time savings. The new superloop routes are more akin to the 607, using major stops only so they'll have a mix of short hops and some longer distance travel too. I'll be curious to see what the data is on people changing between different parts of the loop. I've found being able to switch from the X140 to 607 at Hayes Grapes really handy but I can't imagine that many others do it.
I'm not against expanding express routes at all. Proposed routes just need to decide if they're for commuters from Central London (in which case there's no point running them beyond zone three) or for journeys along suburban corridors. Looking at the X149 idea, Liverpool Street-Waltham Cross would be ridiculously long. But maybe a limited stop route from Tottenham to Waltham Cross could work provided it focuses on catering for longer distance traffic and actually provides attractive fast journey times.
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Post by cl54 on Jul 5, 2023 8:53:54 GMT
I used the N89 on a regular basis from Shooters Hill to Blackfriars around 4am. Buses sailed along and it was almost like travelling in a taxi.
Unfortunately traffic light phasing and 20mph speed limits have wrecked the route as well as most of the other radial night routes.
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Post by abellion on Jul 5, 2023 10:39:09 GMT
I used the N89 on a regular basis from Shooters Hill to Blackfriars around 4am. Buses sailed along and it was almost like travelling in a taxi. Unfortunately traffic light phasing and 20mph speed limits have wrecked the route as well as most of the other radial night routes. I still notice drivers who continue to ignore 20mph limits all the time including on night routes. I use the N155 the most and I cannot imagine it being on time at all if it is speed restricted. |
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Post by cl54 on Jul 5, 2023 13:55:40 GMT
I used the N89 on a regular basis from Shooters Hill to Blackfriars around 4am. Buses sailed along and it was almost like travelling in a taxi. Unfortunately traffic light phasing and 20mph speed limits have wrecked the route as well as most of the other radial night routes. I still notice drivers who continue ignore 20mph limits all the time including on night routes. I use the N155 the most and I cannot imagine it being on time at all if it is speed restricted. They don't get the chance where speed is limited by GPS. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jul 5, 2023 14:24:27 GMT
I used the N89 on a regular basis from Shooters Hill to Blackfriars around 4am. Buses sailed along and it was almost like travelling in a taxi. Unfortunately traffic light phasing and 20mph speed limits have wrecked the route as well as most of the other radial night routes. I still notice drivers who continue to ignore 20mph limits all the time including on night routes. I use the N155 the most and I cannot imagine it being on time at all if it is speed restricted. I do not blame them, it is honestly pathetic. |
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Post by northlondon83 on Jul 5, 2023 18:29:37 GMT
Its very easy to look at these long corridors where night routes run and suggest having express routes along them. However, long express routes from the centre to zone 6 would be a nightmare to operate to the point where they may not even have much of a time advantage over the stopping bus. This is before mentioning that not enough people would travel long distances on such routes to make them viable, because of how long it would take. You could go back home to Romford on the Elizabeth line, relax with a cuppa, your feet up and the tele on before the X15 has even passed Barking. The X68 is unique as the only commuter route from zone one and is successful because it serves a corridor with poor rail connections and the long non stop section helps make it genuinely faster, if it was limited stop like the 607 it would be used by people living in Camberwell for short hops and very marginal time savings. The new superloop routes are more akin to the 607, using major stops only so they'll have a mix of short hops and some longer distance travel too. I'll be curious to see what the data is on people changing between different parts of the loop. I've found being able to switch from the X140 to 607 at Hayes Grapes really handy but I can't imagine that many others do it. I'm not against expanding express routes at all. Proposed routes just need to decide if they're for commuters from Central London (in which case there's no point running them beyond zone three) or for journeys along suburban corridors. Looking at the X149 idea, Liverpool Street-Waltham Cross would be ridiculously long. But maybe a limited stop route from Tottenham to Waltham Cross could work provided it focuses on catering for longer distance traffic and actually provides attractive fast journey times. I don't think the Tottenham to Waltham Cross corridor is the best one to explore, assuming you're routing it via the 279. I'm not local but I'd doubt it would be faster than the 279. Most corridors aren't great for express routes tbh. I could perhaps see potential for an X13 running from High Barnet to Victoria (or Oxford Circus, returning the link from Swiss Cottage to Oxford Circus) quite possibly in similar fashion to the X68, running non stop from Baker Street to North Finchley, then calling at all stops to High Barnet |
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Post by route53 on Jul 6, 2023 5:53:15 GMT
I would very much prefer if the Superloop and the express network were split; incorporating the likes of 607 and X68 in the network is daft and really defeats the purpose of the SuperLOOP. Instead, i reckon there should be a focus on express routes running particularly on some of the busiest corridors in the city. Routes such as: X15 - Trafalgar Square - Romford Market X36 - Oxford Circus - Chislehurst (N136) X29 - Trafalgar Square - Enfield X109 - Oxford Circus - Croydon Town Centre (N109) X53 - Whitehall - Thamesmead (via Lewisham) X149 - Liverpool Street - Waltham Cross X18 - Euston - Harrow Weald X89 - Trafalgar Square - Bexleyheath Could be viable. There are issues with the length of these routes, but I struggle to see the running times for them exceeding 90 minutes. An X89 as great as it sounds, would never happen, the 89 itself parallels the Bexleyheath line for a large part of its route, South Eastern often tell passengers to use that route whenever there is disruption, even the N89 partly follows the Bexleyheath line’s Victoria service as far as Camberwell/Denmark Hill, instead of an X89, I’d have an X21, still from Bexleyheath via Sidcup The regular 109 regularly suffers from traffic issues however it could still work on paper as it doesn’t particularly follow a parallel rail line. Aside from the fact that there is the EL at Woolwich, an X53 might work, the regular 53 intersects the areas that are too far from either the Woolwich or Bexleyheath lines, plus its pretty much a railway desert from New Cross to E&C. Very good ideas though! A radial express network is needed. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 6, 2023 8:19:54 GMT
I would very much prefer if the Superloop and the express network were split; incorporating the likes of 607 and X68 in the network is daft and really defeats the purpose of the SuperLOOP. Instead, i reckon there should be a focus on express routes running particularly on some of the busiest corridors in the city. Routes such as: X15 - Trafalgar Square - Romford Market X36 - Oxford Circus - Chislehurst (N136) X29 - Trafalgar Square - Enfield X109 - Oxford Circus - Croydon Town Centre (N109) X53 - Whitehall - Thamesmead (via Lewisham) X149 - Liverpool Street - Waltham Cross X18 - Euston - Harrow Weald X89 - Trafalgar Square - Bexleyheath Could be viable. There are issues with the length of these routes, but I struggle to see the running times for them exceeding 90 minutes. Despite I love the concept of an X15, it would in theory never work. The reason the N15 is so busy is because of no night tube into East London, during the day the District Line runs and ever since its ATO upgrade is quite compelling to use. |
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Post by northlondon83 on Jul 6, 2023 8:30:45 GMT
I would very much prefer if the Superloop and the express network were split; incorporating the likes of 607 and X68 in the network is daft and really defeats the purpose of the SuperLOOP. Instead, i reckon there should be a focus on express routes running particularly on some of the busiest corridors in the city. Routes such as: X15 - Trafalgar Square - Romford Market X36 - Oxford Circus - Chislehurst (N136) X29 - Trafalgar Square - Enfield X109 - Oxford Circus - Croydon Town Centre (N109) X53 - Whitehall - Thamesmead (via Lewisham) X149 - Liverpool Street - Waltham Cross X18 - Euston - Harrow Weald X89 - Trafalgar Square - Bexleyheath Could be viable. There are issues with the length of these routes, but I struggle to see the running times for them exceeding 90 minutes. X18 and X149 would unfortunately not work 1. There's too much traffic on both the A404 and the A10 2. Those areas are well connected with the tube or the Overground. Wondering if an X66 could work? Would run from Romford to Leytonstone but could possibly run via the 145 between Wanstead and Leytonstone. Then I'd have it run via the 257 to Stratford and the N25 to Oxford Circus. Another alternative would be to run it non stop from Redbridge to Bow (via the A12), then down the N25 to Oxford Circus. |
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Post by WH241 on Jul 6, 2023 8:53:24 GMT
I would very much prefer if the Superloop and the express network were split; incorporating the likes of 607 and X68 in the network is daft and really defeats the purpose of the SuperLOOP. Instead, i reckon there should be a focus on express routes running particularly on some of the busiest corridors in the city. Routes such as: X15 - Trafalgar Square - Romford Market X36 - Oxford Circus - Chislehurst (N136) X29 - Trafalgar Square - Enfield X109 - Oxford Circus - Croydon Town Centre (N109) X53 - Whitehall - Thamesmead (via Lewisham) X149 - Liverpool Street - Waltham Cross X18 - Euston - Harrow Weald X89 - Trafalgar Square - Bexleyheath Could be viable. There are issues with the length of these routes, but I struggle to see the running times for them exceeding 90 minutes. X18 and X149 would unfortunately not work 1. There's too much traffic on both the A404 and the A10 2. Those areas are well connected with the tube or the Overground. Wondering if an X66 could work? Would run from Romford to Leytonstone but could possibly run via the 145 between Wanstead and Leytonstone. Then I'd have it run via the 257 to Stratford and the N25 to Oxford Circus. Another alternative would be to run it non stop from Redbridge to Bow (via the A12), then down the N25 to Oxford Circus. An express route like the X66 would be anything but express! There is far too much congestion along route you propose especially in the Leytonstone area. It is all very well proposing express routes but you have to ask is there demand for such routes especially from Romford to central London which can be done in around 25 mins and even quicker on direct trains from Romford which is 6 mins to Stratford.
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