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Post by wirewiper on Apr 12, 2022 7:35:25 GMT
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Post by southlondon413 on Apr 12, 2022 7:57:22 GMT
Interesting that they would include provision for CR2 when it is effectively dead and unlikely to be built in the next 20 years. I for one am still firmly against CR2 and would not want to see it implemented.
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Post by wirewiper on Apr 12, 2022 8:02:17 GMT
Interesting that they would include provision for CR2 when it is effectively dead and unlikely to be built in the next 20 years. I for one am still firmly against CR2 and would not want to see it implemented. I don't agree. Crossrail 2 is precisely the kind of infratructure project that is needed to get the UK economy back on its feet. Both in terms of the direct jobs created in its construction and operation, and in the wider benefits to the general economy.
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Post by twobellstogo on Apr 12, 2022 8:25:39 GMT
Interesting that they would include provision for CR2 when it is effectively dead and unlikely to be built in the next 20 years. I for one am still firmly against CR2 and would not want to see it implemented. I don't agree. Crossrail 2 is precisely the kind of infratructure project that is needed to get the UK economy back on its feet. Both in terms of the direct jobs created in its construction and operation, and in the wider benefits to the general economy. I’m not entirely certain that CR2 has got the south west branches correct (surely it would be easier to just take all the southern branches from Raynes Park - Chessington, Epsom/Dorking/Guildford via Epsom - rather than a mish mash of those with some Kingston and some main line services), but otherwise yes, I hope CR2 is built soon!
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Post by southlondon413 on Apr 12, 2022 8:52:18 GMT
I don't agree. Crossrail 2 is precisely the kind of infratructure project that is needed to get the UK economy back on its feet. Both in terms of the direct jobs created in its construction and operation, and in the wider benefits to the general economy. I’m not entirely certain that CR2 has got the south west branches correct (surely it would be easier to just take all the southern branches from Raynes Park - Chessington, Epsom/Dorking/Guildford via Epsom - rather than a mish mash of those with some Kingston and some main line services), but otherwise yes, I hope CR2 is built soon! I think the cost outweigh the benefits. For example in Wimbledon alone pretty much all of Centre Court would be forced to closed and demolished leaving only the listed Tesco building at the front and most of the shops on the bridge would be closed as well. It would have devastating affects on towns like Wimbledon. Not to mention the changes in Soho would detrimental to the area. Personally I think priorities should be connecting HS1 and HS2, which would benefit the entire country. Better train connections to continental Europe through the channel tunnel, to places like Germany, Italy or Spain. I just don’t think CR2 will be beneficial especially when it is so Southern focused at a time when the government is trying to reduce spending in London and the South.
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Post by VMH2537 on Apr 12, 2022 9:43:44 GMT
I’m not entirely certain that CR2 has got the south west branches correct (surely it would be easier to just take all the southern branches from Raynes Park - Chessington, Epsom/Dorking/Guildford via Epsom - rather than a mish mash of those with some Kingston and some main line services), but otherwise yes, I hope CR2 is built soon! I think the cost outweigh the benefits. For example in Wimbledon alone pretty much all of Centre Court would be forced to closed and demolished leaving only the listed Tesco building at the front and most of the shops on the bridge would be closed as well. It would have devastating affects on towns like Wimbledon. Not to mention the changes in Soho would detrimental to the area. Personally I think priorities should be connecting HS1 and HS2, which would benefit the entire country. Better train connections to continental Europe through the channel tunnel, to places like Germany, Italy or Spain. I just don’t think CR2 will be beneficial especially when it is so Southern focused at a time when the government is trying to reduce spending in London and the South. Would it be benifitial without it? The main propose of Crossrail 2 is to relieve congestions of the Victoria, Northern and Southwestern lines. Particularly HS2 is almost certainly going to increase demand on the lines serving Euston station knowing those lines are already at capacity. The line is also required to support the Upper Lea Valley developments at Edmonton and Brimsdown with a potential over £10billion pounds generated to the economy if they are developed at a full scale.
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Post by southlondon413 on Apr 12, 2022 9:57:27 GMT
I think the cost outweigh the benefits. For example in Wimbledon alone pretty much all of Centre Court would be forced to closed and demolished leaving only the listed Tesco building at the front and most of the shops on the bridge would be closed as well. It would have devastating affects on towns like Wimbledon. Not to mention the changes in Soho would detrimental to the area. Personally I think priorities should be connecting HS1 and HS2, which would benefit the entire country. Better train connections to continental Europe through the channel tunnel, to places like Germany, Italy or Spain. I just don’t think CR2 will be beneficial especially when it is so Southern focused at a time when the government is trying to reduce spending in London and the South. Would it be benifitial without it? The main propose of Crossrail 2 is to relieve congestions of the Victoria, Northern and Southwestern lines. Particularly HS2 is almost certainly going to increase demand on the lines serving Euston station knowing those lines are already at capacity. The line is also required to support the Upper Lea Valley developments at Edmonton and Brimsdown with a potential over £10billion pounds generated to the economy if they are developed at a full scale. The main issue with the South Western main line is that’s it already at capacity. Adding more trains to part of it would be detrimental to connections to Waterloo for long distance travellers. Also why does Raynes Park need 20 trains an hour or New Malden 12-14 an hour. Yes, these are growth areas but not on that scale. I understand this is future proofing the SW network and cross London travel but I just think demolishing most of Wimbledon would be completely backwards when there are options available. Why not build a spur from Wimbledon Chase to Raynes Park opening up Thameslink and Southern services to Woking, New Malden and Kingston without needing to change in Wimbledon? This would improve capacity without the need for major demolition works.
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Post by SILENCED on Apr 12, 2022 10:15:50 GMT
Would it be benifitial without it? The main propose of Crossrail 2 is to relieve congestions of the Victoria, Northern and Southwestern lines. Particularly HS2 is almost certainly going to increase demand on the lines serving Euston station knowing those lines are already at capacity. The line is also required to support the Upper Lea Valley developments at Edmonton and Brimsdown with a potential over £10billion pounds generated to the economy if they are developed at a full scale. The main issue with the South Western main line is that’s it already at capacity. Adding more trains to part of it would be detrimental to connections to Waterloo for long distance travellers. Also why does Raynes Park need 20 trains an hour or New Malden 12-14 an hour. Yes, these are growth areas but not on that scale. I understand this is future proofing the SW network and cross London travel but I just think demolishing most of Wimbledon would be completely backwards when there are options available. Why not build a spur from Wimbledon Chase to Raynes Park opening up Thameslink and Southern services to Woking, New Malden and Kingston without needing to change in Wimbledon? This would improve capacity without the need for major demolition works. Be grateful thou they are not proposing it to be a London Overground service with poxy little 5 car units that don't go to London taking up valuable paths
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Post by buspete on Apr 12, 2022 11:14:19 GMT
I agree it is a infrastructure project that is needed to get the economy moving, also you need the extra capacity for HS2 at Euston when that opens, also takes the strain off the Victoria Line - however I am unsure whether the money is there to build this, which is a shame.
On a side note, it is a difficult journey to get from Waterloo to Kings Cross and is a 2 seat ride, so would the Crossrail stopping instead at Clapham Junction*, be as good as a direct Link Waterloo - Kings Cross? Would Crossrail 2 resolve this?
Many years ago the original Fleet Line/Jubilee Line Extinction was going to go to Fenchurch Street, but when the Jubilee Line Extension got built it didn't go there, it went to West Ham instead, which in my books is just as good as going to Fenchurch Street.
*The stop at Clapham Junction is only good, if every train stops at Clapham Junction, as they do for West Ham.
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Post by vjaska on Apr 12, 2022 11:16:35 GMT
The main issue with the South Western main line is that’s it already at capacity. Adding more trains to part of it would be detrimental to connections to Waterloo for long distance travellers. Also why does Raynes Park need 20 trains an hour or New Malden 12-14 an hour. Yes, these are growth areas but not on that scale. I understand this is future proofing the SW network and cross London travel but I just think demolishing most of Wimbledon would be completely backwards when there are options available. Why not build a spur from Wimbledon Chase to Raynes Park opening up Thameslink and Southern services to Woking, New Malden and Kingston without needing to change in Wimbledon? This would improve capacity without the need for major demolition works. Be grateful thou they are not proposing it to be a London Overground service with poxy little 5 car units that don't go to London taking up valuable paths Be grateful you got an Overground service that actually stops rather than passes over the station on another line and then the council decides to build on land TfL had purchased for a new Overground station with a stupid tower block no local asked for
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Post by vjaska on Apr 12, 2022 11:19:21 GMT
I agree it is a infrastructure project that is needed to get the economy moving, also you need the extra capacity for HS2 at Euston when that opens, also takes the strain off the Victoria Line - however I am unsure whether the money is there to build this, which is a shame. On a side note, it is a difficult journey to get from Waterloo to Kings Cross and is a 2 seat ride, so would the Crossrail stopping instead at Clapham Junction*, be as good as a direct Link Waterloo - Kings Cross? Would Crossrail 2 resolve this? Many years ago the original Fleet Line/Jubilee Line Extinction was going to go to Fenchurch Street, but when the Jubilee Line Extension got built it didn't go there, it went to West Ham instead, which in my books is just as good as going to Fenchurch Street. *The stop at Clapham Junction is only good, if every train stops at Clapham Junction, as they do for West Ham. Not sure Clapham Junction has the capacity to handle yet more passengers
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Post by wirewiper on Apr 12, 2022 11:21:50 GMT
I agree it is a infrastructure project that is needed to get the economy moving, also you need the extra capacity for HS2 at Euston when that opens, also takes the strain off the Victoria Line - however I am unsure whether the money is there to build this, which is a shame. On a side note, it is a difficult journey to get from Waterloo to Kings Cross and is a 2 seat ride, so would the Crossrail stopping instead at Clapham Junction*, be as good as a direct Link Waterloo - Kings Cross? Would Crossrail 2 resolve this? Many years ago the original Fleet Line/Jubilee Line Extinction was going to go to Fenchurch Street, but when the Jubilee Line Extension got built it didn't go there, it went to West Ham instead, which in my books is just as good as going to Fenchurch Street. *The stop at Clapham Junction is only good, if every train stops at Clapham Junction, as they do for West Ham. Waterloo to King's Cross may be a two-seat ride, but this is mitigated by having simple cross-platform interchange at Oxford Circus between Bakerloo and Victoria (it was designed this way deliberately). There have been proposals in the past to incorporate the Aldwych branch fully into the Piccadilly Line and extend to Waterloo, which would give a direct Waterloo-Kings Cross St Pancras link. However this would mean an inadequate frequency would be provided on the main route west from Holborn.
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Post by buspete on Apr 12, 2022 12:49:18 GMT
I agree it is a infrastructure project that is needed to get the economy moving, also you need the extra capacity for HS2 at Euston when that opens, also takes the strain off the Victoria Line - however I am unsure whether the money is there to build this, which is a shame. On a side note, it is a difficult journey to get from Waterloo to Kings Cross and is a 2 seat ride, so would the Crossrail stopping instead at Clapham Junction*, be as good as a direct Link Waterloo - Kings Cross? Would Crossrail 2 resolve this? Many years ago the original Fleet Line/Jubilee Line Extinction was going to go to Fenchurch Street, but when the Jubilee Line Extension got built it didn't go there, it went to West Ham instead, which in my books is just as good as going to Fenchurch Street. *The stop at Clapham Junction is only good, if every train stops at Clapham Junction, as they do for West Ham. Not sure Clapham Junction has the capacity to handle yet more passengers Not sure how rammed the station is, but Crossrail 2 is what it is unless they change the route it is going to go from Clapham Junction - Kings Cross/ Euston regardless if/when it gets built. Crossrail would also take some strain off Clapham Junction, thinking people already on Crossrail and don't need to change to get to Victoria I agree it is a infrastructure project that is needed to get the economy moving, also you need the extra capacity for HS2 at Euston when that opens, also takes the strain off the Victoria Line - however I am unsure whether the money is there to build this, which is a shame. On a side note, it is a difficult journey to get from Waterloo to Kings Cross and is a 2 seat ride, so would the Crossrail stopping instead at Clapham Junction*, be as good as a direct Link Waterloo - Kings Cross? Would Crossrail 2 resolve this? Many years ago the original Fleet Line/Jubilee Line Extinction was going to go to Fenchurch Street, but when the Jubilee Line Extension got built it didn't go there, it went to West Ham instead, which in my books is just as good as going to Fenchurch Street. *The stop at Clapham Junction is only good, if every train stops at Clapham Junction, as they do for West Ham. Waterloo to King's Cross may be a two-seat ride, but this is mitigated by having simple cross-platform interchange at Oxford Circus between Bakerloo and Victoria (it was designed this way deliberately). There have been proposals in the past to incorporate the Aldwych branch fully into the Piccadilly Line and extend to Waterloo, which would give a direct Waterloo-Kings Cross St Pancras link. However this would mean an inadequate frequency would be provided on the main route west from Holborn. I work in Baker Street and avoid going via Victoria and prefer London Bridge/Waterloo East/Charing Cross for that very reason Victoria is a 2 seat ride, |I am no different to 99% of passengers and that is I don' want complexity when I travel. The question was merely if Crossrail 2 got built would passengers change at Clapham Junction to get to Kings Cross?
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Post by greenboy on Apr 12, 2022 14:31:13 GMT
I hope CR2 gets built as soon as possible, the RER in Paris has been a great success and I'm sure this will be.
Isn't the plan to merge Kings Cross, St Pancras and Euston into one super station?
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Post by vjaska on Apr 12, 2022 16:00:00 GMT
Not sure Clapham Junction has the capacity to handle yet more passengers Not sure how rammed the station is, but Crossrail 2 is what it is unless they change the route it is going to go from Clapham Junction - Kings Cross/ Euston regardless if/when it gets built. Crossrail would also take some strain off Clapham Junction, thinking people already on Crossrail and don't need to change to get to Victoria Waterloo to King's Cross may be a two-seat ride, but this is mitigated by having simple cross-platform interchange at Oxford Circus between Bakerloo and Victoria (it was designed this way deliberately). There have been proposals in the past to incorporate the Aldwych branch fully into the Piccadilly Line and extend to Waterloo, which would give a direct Waterloo-Kings Cross St Pancras link. However this would mean an inadequate frequency would be provided on the main route west from Holborn. I work in Baker Street and avoid going via Victoria and prefer London Bridge/Waterloo East/Charing Cross for that very reason Victoria is a 2 seat ride, |I am no different to 99% of passengers and that is I don' want complexity when I travel. The question was merely if Crossrail 2 got built would passengers change at Clapham Junction to get to Kings Cross? Clapham Junction has long been proposed to be rebuilt and enhance it's capacity despite the presence of Crossrail 2 if/when it's built - no doubt Crossrail 2 will take some pressure off but it may not be enough hence why the Northern Line was even halted short of Clapham Junction as a route has been safeguarded should Clapham Junction be eventually sorted out.
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