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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Dec 16, 2022 11:34:45 GMT
Sorry, but if you really do not think what most rail staff are earning is a decent living wage, then sorry to say you are being delusional. Try telling that to many people who earn way below that including those working in the NHS. Mick Lynch is a serious joke. I lost respect for that guy. He is a Bob Crow wannabe and has failed miserably at that. If he thinks the public are stupid enough to accept his claims of safety being compromised removing guards from trains, but yet they agreed to it on the Underground which is far busier and more people, even the Elizabeth line. End of the day the RMT is a business and is looking at keeping and retaining as much members as possible; they have no interest in the people itself, especially costing them over £1000 in lost wages, which would in effect wipe out any pay rises. Other unions have accepted the pay offers, RMT as usual wants to be holding to ransom. in reference to the graph: Train drivers are not part of the RMT industrial action Need to appreciate in that graph that there are actual specialist surgeons that earn less than a lot of the rail workers. Think they all need to just grow up, nobody else throws their toys out of the pram every year. When someone then threatens them with closing a ticket office and the fact that some station staff might actually need to be working on the concourse instead they just can't take it. Beyond selfish of them.
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Post by wirewiper on Dec 16, 2022 11:48:58 GMT
Chiltern Railways and South Western Railway have aannounced that they will be operating severely reduced services from 18th December to 8th January due to the RMT's overtime ban at some Train Operating Companies. Services are also affected by the strike from 18.00 on 24th December until 06.00 on 27th December. Chiltern Railways is operating no services at all on Sunday 18th December. No trains will operate north of Banbury during the overtime ban and only a limited service between 07.00 and 22.00 on other routes. The Christmas Eve shutdown will be earlier than usual with last trains departing just after 15.00, and trains will resume around 08.00 on the 27th. www.chilternrailways.co.uk/strikeSouth Western Railway will operate extremely limited services on Sunday 18th December, with the majority of routes having no service at all. Trains will run from London Waterloo to Woking, Basingtoke and Southampton Central plus a Basingstoke-Salisbury shuttle. On other days services will generally commence around 07.00 and finish around 22.00. The Christmas Eve shutdown will be much earlier than usual, with last departures to some destinations as early as midday and a total shutdown of services by 15.00. Services will not resume on the 27th until around midday. www.southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey/industrial-actionOther Train Operating Companies are also now advising passengers to travel as early as possible on Christmas Eve, it seems like they are preparing for a total network shutdown at 18.00 rather than run the risk of stranding trains and passengers.
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Post by greenboy on Dec 16, 2022 12:51:10 GMT
If the Rail operators employed enough staff and paid a decent living wage there wouldn't be any need for the railways to depend on overtime and good will to run. Sorry, but if you really do not think what most rail staff are earning is a decent living wage, then sorry to say you are being delusional. Try telling that to many people who earn way below that including those working in the NHS. Mick Lynch is a serious joke. I lost respect for that guy. He is a Bob Crow wannabe and has failed miserably at that. If he thinks the public are stupid enough to accept his claims of safety being compromised removing guards from trains, but yet they agreed to it on the Underground which is far busier and more people, even the Elizabeth line. End of the day the RMT is a business and is looking at keeping and retaining as much members as possible; they have no interest in the people itself, especially costing them over £1000 in lost wages, which would in effect wipe out any pay rises. Other unions have accepted the pay offers, RMT as usual wants to be holding to ransom. Agree completely, it's NHS staff and others earning far less that are suffering because of these strikes. I had some respect for the late Bob Crow but I've none whatsoever for Mick the grinch Lynch, the hospitality industry which has suffered enough during the pandemic has been decimated again with Christmas events being cancelled, people have made theatre bookings and they now can't get to them and can't get a refund. The argument for guards on trains is ridiculous, most other countries have been driver only for years, and as for safety he seems to have forgotten about the Merseyrail guard who was jailed for manslaughter. Time moves on and there is no need for a guard sitting in the back cab doing nothing most of the time or staff in ticket offices and the railway industry needs to modernise.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 17, 2022 0:17:06 GMT
Sorry, but if you really do not think what most rail staff are earning is a decent living wage, then sorry to say you are being delusional. Try telling that to many people who earn way below that including those working in the NHS. Mick Lynch is a serious joke. I lost respect for that guy. He is a Bob Crow wannabe and has failed miserably at that. If he thinks the public are stupid enough to accept his claims of safety being compromised removing guards from trains, but yet they agreed to it on the Underground which is far busier and more people, even the Elizabeth line. End of the day the RMT is a business and is looking at keeping and retaining as much members as possible; they have no interest in the people itself, especially costing them over £1000 in lost wages, which would in effect wipe out any pay rises. Other unions have accepted the pay offers, RMT as usual wants to be holding to ransom. in reference to the graph: Train drivers are not part of the RMT industrial action I am fully aware of that, but if you think rail travel assistants being paid £35,506 a year is not a decent living wage, then God help us. I do not know what the world is coming to.
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Post by joefrombow on Dec 17, 2022 8:21:50 GMT
in reference to the graph: Train drivers are not part of the RMT industrial action I am fully aware of that, but if you think rail travel assistants being paid £35,506 a year is not a decent living wage, then God help us. I do not know what the world is coming to. These figures the media throw out though are probably with overtime and the like when you actually look on the websites they are paying nothing like that jobs.southeasternrailway.co.uk/jobs/job/Customer-Service-Advisor/47How can anyone be expected to live and provide for a family if they have one plus pay rent/mortgage council tax etc and the rest on these kinds of wages especially in London ? Granted the OPO argument is a dead one now in a sense as guards don't operate on any London routes bar the Intercity trains and London is Busier than anywhere else but there are mainly staffed stations and stations are close by , but in rural locations there are a lot of unstaffed stations plus long gaps etc so the need for a guard is a lot more however I agree they should be out and about on the train like the PSA on the DLR and not sitting in the back cab closing the doors so there definitely needs to be some kind of reform but literally EVERYTHING is rising and the government are point blank refusing to talk to the unions and throwing things in last minute that they know full well the unions are not going to agree too , so whilst it is very frustrating that this is all going on the unions are merely doing what they are there to do and that is stand up for the members .
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Post by SILENCED on Dec 17, 2022 8:59:23 GMT
I am fully aware of that, but if you think rail travel assistants being paid £35,506 a year is not a decent living wage, then God help us. I do not know what the world is coming to. These figures the media throw out though are probably with overtime and the like when you actually look on the websites they are paying nothing like that jobs.southeasternrailway.co.uk/jobs/job/Customer-Service-Advisor/47How can anyone be expected to live and provide for a family if they have one plus pay rent/mortgage council tax etc and the rest on these kinds of wages especially in London ? Granted the OPO argument is a dead one now in a sense as guards don't operate on any London routes bar the Intercity trains and London is Busier than anywhere else but there are mainly staffed stations and stations are close by , but in rural locations there are a lot of unstaffed stations plus long gaps etc so the need for a guard is a lot more however I agree they should be out and about on the train like the PSA on the DLR and not sitting in the back cab closing the doors so there definitely needs to be some kind of reform but literally EVERYTHING is rising and the government are point blank refusing to talk to the unions and throwing things in last minute that they know full well the unions are not going to agree too , so whilst it is very frustrating that this is all going on the unions are merely doing what they are there to do and that is stand up for the members . That is still more than the starting salary at the majority of places. And how many places of work do you start on the average salary? Amazon workers in Coventry are striking as they earn £10 an hour and have been offered a 50p rise. That that is a worthwhile cause to strike.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Dec 17, 2022 10:28:19 GMT
I am fully aware of that, but if you think rail travel assistants being paid £35,506 a year is not a decent living wage, then God help us. I do not know what the world is coming to. These figures the media throw out though are probably with overtime and the like when you actually look on the websites they are paying nothing like that jobs.southeasternrailway.co.uk/jobs/job/Customer-Service-Advisor/47How can anyone be expected to live and provide for a family if they have one plus pay rent/mortgage council tax etc and the rest on these kinds of wages especially in London ? Granted the OPO argument is a dead one now in a sense as guards don't operate on any London routes bar the Intercity trains and London is Busier than anywhere else but there are mainly staffed stations and stations are close by , but in rural locations there are a lot of unstaffed stations plus long gaps etc so the need for a guard is a lot more however I agree they should be out and about on the train like the PSA on the DLR and not sitting in the back cab closing the doors so there definitely needs to be some kind of reform but literally EVERYTHING is rising and the government are point blank refusing to talk to the unions and throwing things in last minute that they know full well the unions are not going to agree too , so whilst it is very frustrating that this is all going on the unions are merely doing what they are there to do and that is stand up for the members . The real fact here is that these kind of wages do exist in London, and there are plenty of other jobs in London paying a lot less than these wages, how do you think these people manage? Let's appreciate that these people get free travel too which can set others back on lower wages thousands of pounds every year. The obvious saying goes, if you're not happy with what you're being paid then go and find a new job. I'm sure there will be many people happy to work on the wages that the railway workers currently are on. I do agree that if the workers did more, then they could justify their wage increases, such as seeing them out and about actually helping people on the station concourses. It's getting increasingly to a point that these railway workers that are continually striking are becoming public enemy number one, and I have no remorse for them at all. Would rather the entire lot get made redundant here and now and new workers hired, I'm happy to see a reduced service during the entire training period if it means that these strikes will stop in the long term.
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Post by WH241 on Dec 17, 2022 12:18:09 GMT
These figures the media throw out though are probably with overtime and the like when you actually look on the websites they are paying nothing like that jobs.southeasternrailway.co.uk/jobs/job/Customer-Service-Advisor/47How can anyone be expected to live and provide for a family if they have one plus pay rent/mortgage council tax etc and the rest on these kinds of wages especially in London ? Granted the OPO argument is a dead one now in a sense as guards don't operate on any London routes bar the Intercity trains and London is Busier than anywhere else but there are mainly staffed stations and stations are close by , but in rural locations there are a lot of unstaffed stations plus long gaps etc so the need for a guard is a lot more however I agree they should be out and about on the train like the PSA on the DLR and not sitting in the back cab closing the doors so there definitely needs to be some kind of reform but literally EVERYTHING is rising and the government are point blank refusing to talk to the unions and throwing things in last minute that they know full well the unions are not going to agree too , so whilst it is very frustrating that this is all going on the unions are merely doing what they are there to do and that is stand up for the members . The real fact here is that these kind of wages do exist in London, and there are plenty of other jobs in London paying a lot less than these wages, how do you think these people manage? Let's appreciate that these people get free travel too which can set others back on lower wages thousands of pounds every year. The obvious saying goes, if you're not happy with what you're being paid then go and find a new job. I'm sure there will be many people happy to work on the wages that the railway workers currently are on. I do agree that if the workers did more, then they could justify their wage increases, such as seeing them out and about actually helping people on the station concourses. It's getting increasingly to a point that these railway workers that are continually striking are becoming public enemy number one, and I have no remorse for them at all. Would rather the entire lot get made redundant here and now and new workers hired, I'm happy to see a reduced service during the entire training period if it means that these strikes will stop in the long term. Couldn't agree more! I have just been give a pay rise of between 5% and 7% with back pay until September. Whilst not great I am grateful and not throwing my toys of of the pram and going on strike.
Have to be careful with my wording here but I think a lot of the issues are people are not always willing to tighten their belts and not willing to try and save money. It seems people just expect pay rises to maintain a certain lifestyle. Looking around shops it seems very much like business as usual this Christmas despise the cost of living crises and energy bills rising.
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Post by southlondon413 on Dec 17, 2022 14:50:01 GMT
The real fact here is that these kind of wages do exist in London, and there are plenty of other jobs in London paying a lot less than these wages, how do you think these people manage? Let's appreciate that these people get free travel too which can set others back on lower wages thousands of pounds every year. The obvious saying goes, if you're not happy with what you're being paid then go and find a new job. I'm sure there will be many people happy to work on the wages that the railway workers currently are on. I do agree that if the workers did more, then they could justify their wage increases, such as seeing them out and about actually helping people on the station concourses. It's getting increasingly to a point that these railway workers that are continually striking are becoming public enemy number one, and I have no remorse for them at all. Would rather the entire lot get made redundant here and now and new workers hired, I'm happy to see a reduced service during the entire training period if it means that these strikes will stop in the long term. Couldn't agree more! I have just been give a pay rise of between 5% and 7% with back pay until September. Whilst not great I am grateful and not throwing my toys of of the pram and going on strike.
Have to be careful with my wording here but I think a lot of the issues are people are not always willing to tighten their belts and not willing to try and save money. It seems people just expect pay rises to maintain a certain lifestyle. Looking around shops it seems very much like business as usual this Christmas despise the cost of living crises and energy bills rising.
So true, just this year so save a little bit of money I’ve cancelled a couple of my long standing streaming services, cancelled a device contract and haven’t used heating at all. It’s the little things but it all adds up. We have a serious issue of people wanting to “keep up with the Jones’s” syndrome in this country and it isn’t improving anytime soon. I am due a payrise but I’m not holding out for anything more than 8% this year. Hopefully my due promotion and bonus will make up for it. But even then I will still save money. For the first time in my adult life I have committed to buying no Xmas presents because I the money is better spent on other things.
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Post by vjaska on Dec 17, 2022 15:37:10 GMT
Couldn't agree more! I have just been give a pay rise of between 5% and 7% with back pay until September. Whilst not great I am grateful and not throwing my toys of of the pram and going on strike.
Have to be careful with my wording here but I think a lot of the issues are people are not always willing to tighten their belts and not willing to try and save money. It seems people just expect pay rises to maintain a certain lifestyle. Looking around shops it seems very much like business as usual this Christmas despise the cost of living crises and energy bills rising.
So true, just this year so save a little bit of money I’ve cancelled a couple of my long standing streaming services, cancelled a device contract and haven’t used heating at all. It’s the little things but it all adds up. We have a serious issue of people wanting to “keep up with the Jones’s” syndrome in this country and it isn’t improving anytime soon. I am due a payrise but I’m not holding out for anything more than 8% this year. Hopefully my due promotion and bonus will make up for it. But even then I will still save money. For the first time in my adult life I have committed to buying no Xmas presents because I the money is better spent on other things. I had a 1% pay rise this year yet I don’t blame these people asking for pay rises especially when the majority of the workers involved actually haven’t their pay increase at all over many years. Besides, in most cases, the way negotiations work is they don’t actually get what the starting demand is so whilst nurses might ask for 18% or whatever the exact figure is, it will likely be lower than that. Too many people on here are guessing about peoples pay and what they might have to pay for without the actual experience of that profession and all that does is simply play into the government’s hands who simply want to divide and conquer.
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Post by southlondon413 on Dec 17, 2022 16:38:19 GMT
So true, just this year so save a little bit of money I’ve cancelled a couple of my long standing streaming services, cancelled a device contract and haven’t used heating at all. It’s the little things but it all adds up. We have a serious issue of people wanting to “keep up with the Jones’s” syndrome in this country and it isn’t improving anytime soon. I am due a payrise but I’m not holding out for anything more than 8% this year. Hopefully my due promotion and bonus will make up for it. But even then I will still save money. For the first time in my adult life I have committed to buying no Xmas presents because I the money is better spent on other things. I had a 1% pay rise this year yet I don’t blame these people asking for pay rises especially when the majority of the workers involved actually haven’t their pay increase at all over many years. Besides, in most cases, the way negotiations work is they don’t actually get what the starting demand is so whilst nurses might ask for 18% or whatever the exact figure is, it will likely be lower than that. Too many people on here are guessing about peoples pay and what they might have to pay for without the actual experience of that profession and all that does is simply play into the government’s hands who simply want to divide and conquer. No neither do I and to be honest I don’t really care what people get paid. I think if that’s what people think they are worth then fine, but it doesn’t mean the company should. The nurses union has gone in hard because they know the government won’t stump up that kind of cash, I think it far more reasonable that they will settle at a backdated 7-8% with some additional benefits. Without making this a huge deal I’ve often said the NHS just isn’t built for the 21st century and it needs major reforms to make it more modern, but no government is prepared to completely rebuild it. In an ideal world we would from the top tier of the NHS, like the diversity officers and wellness coordinators, to provide more money to the bottom like frontline nurses and doctors, we’d have nationwide buying teams rather individual trust buyers, centralised warehousing, etc, basically a retail stock system but for hospitals. Frankly we should have laws that limit the amount of dividends companies can pay to shareholders and how much money can be transferred out of the UK with laws designed to meet a minimum investment in staff if the company is large, but in this climate none will happen.
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Post by ibus246 on Dec 17, 2022 17:26:56 GMT
These figures the media throw out though are probably with overtime and the like when you actually look on the websites they are paying nothing like that jobs.southeasternrailway.co.uk/jobs/job/Customer-Service-Advisor/47How can anyone be expected to live and provide for a family if they have one plus pay rent/mortgage council tax etc and the rest on these kinds of wages especially in London ? Granted the OPO argument is a dead one now in a sense as guards don't operate on any London routes bar the Intercity trains and London is Busier than anywhere else but there are mainly staffed stations and stations are close by , but in rural locations there are a lot of unstaffed stations plus long gaps etc so the need for a guard is a lot more however I agree they should be out and about on the train like the PSA on the DLR and not sitting in the back cab closing the doors so there definitely needs to be some kind of reform but literally EVERYTHING is rising and the government are point blank refusing to talk to the unions and throwing things in last minute that they know full well the unions are not going to agree too , so whilst it is very frustrating that this is all going on the unions are merely doing what they are there to do and that is stand up for the members . The real fact here is that these kind of wages do exist in London, and there are plenty of other jobs in London paying a lot less than these wages, how do you think these people manage? Let's appreciate that these people get free travel too which can set others back on lower wages thousands of pounds every year. The obvious saying goes, if you're not happy with what you're being paid then go and find a new job. I'm sure there will be many people happy to work on the wages that the railway workers currently are on. I do agree that if the workers did more, then they could justify their wage increases, such as seeing them out and about actually helping people on the station concourses. It's getting increasingly to a point that these railway workers that are continually striking are becoming public enemy number one, and I have no remorse for them at all. Would rather the entire lot get made redundant here and now and new workers hired, I'm happy to see a reduced service during the entire training period if it means that these strikes will stop in the long term. Very much agree and the point that these workers get free travel is an important one saving literally thousands a year. Most station staff I see (and I use the railways everyday) are standing around on their phones gossiping with colleagues. Look at the gateline staff on London Bridge lower level. Dare ask them something and see the response you get. We, as passenger, are an inconvenience seemingly. At Purley Station where the platform staff have to dispatch trains (why?) the train will pull in and the staff will still be in their little office chatting away thus the driver has to wait for them to walk to the front of a 12 coach train in order to be dispatched. They work with zero urgency and should be in position already. Finally, the whole attitude in the industry is “I’ll only do them a favour if it suits me”. On more than once occasions I’ve seen a bunch of drivers sitting in first class in their uniform openly slagging off their employer and winding each other up. The sooner the employees realise the industry needs to change the better and I hope their pay offer is withdrawn.
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Post by greenboy on Dec 17, 2022 19:02:33 GMT
The real fact here is that these kind of wages do exist in London, and there are plenty of other jobs in London paying a lot less than these wages, how do you think these people manage? Let's appreciate that these people get free travel too which can set others back on lower wages thousands of pounds every year. The obvious saying goes, if you're not happy with what you're being paid then go and find a new job. I'm sure there will be many people happy to work on the wages that the railway workers currently are on. I do agree that if the workers did more, then they could justify their wage increases, such as seeing them out and about actually helping people on the station concourses. It's getting increasingly to a point that these railway workers that are continually striking are becoming public enemy number one, and I have no remorse for them at all. Would rather the entire lot get made redundant here and now and new workers hired, I'm happy to see a reduced service during the entire training period if it means that these strikes will stop in the long term. Very much agree and the point that these workers get free travel is an important one saving literally thousands a year. Most station staff I see (and I use the railways everyday) are standing around on their phones gossiping with colleagues. Look at the gateline staff on London Bridge lower level. Dare ask them something and see the response you get. We, as passenger, are an inconvenience seemingly. At Purley Station where the platform staff have to dispatch trains (why?) the train will pull in and the staff will still be in their little office chatting away thus the driver has to wait for them to walk to the front of a 12 coach train in order to be dispatched. They work with zero urgency and should be in position already. Finally, the whole attitude in the industry is “I’ll only do them a favour if it suits me”. On more than once occasions I’ve seen a bunch of drivers sitting in first class in their uniform openly slagging off their employer and winding each other up. The sooner the employees realise the industry needs to change the better and I hope their pay offer is withdrawn. I've had exactly that problem at the London Bridge gateline, my ticket was rejected so I have to find a member of staff to let me out. A group of about 6 of them all having a good old chinwag so I have to try and butt in and get at least one of thems attention, eventually one of them comes and lets me out almost begrudgingly and doesn't even glance at my ticket to see if it was valid. How bizarre that Thameslink drivers can now self dispatch at East Croydon but not at Purley and as far as I know not at Redhill or Three Bridges either. This despite the fact that East Croydon is busier and has a curved platform. Certainly Thameslink trains are in and out of East Croydon much quicker now and I've seen the same thing there with platform staff standing chatting and in no rush at all to get the train moving even if it's running late and there's another train waiting behind it. I've also noticed at Bromley South how much quicker Thameslink trains are in and out now that they no longer have to wait for platform staff. Ticket gates are often left open and unattended particularly on the SouthEastern network, why were they installed in the first place? The whole industry needs to be dragged out of the dark ages.
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Post by TA1 on Dec 18, 2022 1:59:38 GMT
Pitting public sectors & the working class against one another, whilst the government deliberately opt against meeting any of those striking.
It’s not solely about pay. - it’s about working conditions, job security. The DFT needs to allow TOC’s to hire sufficient amounts of staff & not allow it to run on goodwill & overtime.
I chuckle at many comments, but know that certain individuals like to stir the pot but when met with a rebuttal, they’re aggrieved at being targeted.
Anyway, next trainee driver vacancy that comes up I look forward to a few of you passing the psychometric exams & interviews, undergoing training and becoming a qualified train driver.
Solidarity with all those striking, can’t wait to join my picket next year when announced. Up the workers.
NB: not all strikes are about pay. Stop reading the daily mail.
Up the workers!
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Post by greenboy on Dec 18, 2022 8:32:16 GMT
Pitting public sectors & the working class against one another, whilst the government deliberately opt against meeting any of those striking. It’s not solely about pay. - it’s about working conditions, job security. The DFT needs to allow TOC’s to hire sufficient amounts of staff & not allow it to run on goodwill & overtime. I chuckle at many comments, but know that certain individuals like to stir the pot but when met with a rebuttal, they’re aggrieved at being targeted. Anyway, next trainee driver vacancy that comes up I look forward to a few of you passing the psychometric exams & interviews, undergoing training and becoming a qualified train driver. Solidarity with all those striking, can’t wait to join my picket next year when announced. Up the workers. NB: not all strikes are about pay. Stop reading the daily mail. Up the workers! I will just add that I do have family and friends who work in the railway industry, or have done in the past. I'm sure you've heard the old saying......there's the right way, there's the wrong way and then there's the railway😆 Personally I haven't read the Daily Mail in years, or for that matter any other daily paper.
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