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Post by yunus on Jun 11, 2022 7:11:59 GMT
Wasn't sure of the best place to create this thread under so ended up here.
As we know Diesel & Petrol prices have increased.
Wonder how bus operators will cope & the impacts it'll have on them.
Happy to be corrected but the sooner we move to EV the better. TFL already have a large amount of Electric buses which will likely increase rapidly over the years.
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Post by southlondon413 on Jun 11, 2022 9:37:05 GMT
Wasn't sure of the best place to create this thread under so ended up here. As we know Diesel & Petrol prices have increased. Wonder how bus operators will cope & the impacts it'll have on them. Happy to be corrected but the sooner we move to EV the better. TFL already have a large amount of Electric buses which will likely increase rapidly over the years. A lot of large transport related businesses use fuel hedging. Basically their prices are pre-negotiated and capped based on what experts believe fuel will be worth when the contract commences. So whilst small operators might notice an immediate increase larger ones like your Go Aheads and Stagecoachs will unlikely be affected in the short term. Further down the road if prices don’t come down and they sign new agreements, if they haven’t already, it will be a concern. It was only a few years ago, iirc, that a few airlines were caught out by this and ended up paying hugely when fuel costs were cheap For all we know TfL could be allowing supplemental fuel surcharge related payments to operators, it’s certainly something being used in my industry, but who knows. |
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Post by SILENCED on Jun 11, 2022 9:47:52 GMT
To give TfL their due, they did negotiate a lot of tender extensions before the threat of the current price rises reared its head.
We have been used to seeing virtually all routes being offered, and taking up 2 year extensions recently. With the rise in prices recently, will be see a decrease in the percentage taking up extensions as routes are no longer profitable?
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Post by SILENCED on Jun 11, 2022 10:01:12 GMT
Wasn't sure of the best place to create this thread under so ended up here. As we know Diesel & Petrol prices have increased. Wonder how bus operators will cope & the impacts it'll have on them. Happy to be corrected but the sooner we move to EV the better. TFL already have a large amount of Electric buses which will likely increase rapidly over the years. In case you hadn't notice, electricity has probably risen by a larger percentage than diesel. Quite how this equates to the quotes that generation by fossil fuel based methods is sometimes zero, and a larger reliance on 'green' generation ... does not seem to stack up. The 'green' electric companies must be raking in the bucks! |
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Post by ServerKing on Jun 11, 2022 20:35:48 GMT
To give TfL their due, they did negotiate a lot of tender extensions before the threat of the current price rises reared its head. We have been used to seeing virtually all routes being offered, and taking up 2 year extensions recently. With the rise in prices recently, will be see a decrease in the percentage taking up extensions as routes are no longer profitable? TfL have also scrapped 40 routes or drastically altered others and reduced frequency of buses... 318 is running with 14 year old buses which have no stop-start or hybrid system, (thankfully due to the way TfL have ruined roads by lower speeds, very few buses get to 30 or 40 miles an hour, but I'm sure there's lots of clogged DPF (diesel particulate filters) and faulty AdBlue systems as nothing gets to stretch their legs, especially in central London  Boris Johnson hasn't stood up to fuel companies who since the last shortage have made a fortune and not passed lower costs on, despite a drop in demand for fuel due to lockdown in China at the moment. Fuel duty could be cut further but we know it won't ever happen  I think routes will continue be thinned out. I remember years ago, you couldn't move for buses along Oxford Street. Now the fewer ones remaining mostly carry oxygen. TfL need to adapt by reducing services where there's no demand rather than chopping up routes or canning them. More of us work from home, and even less will bother with a system crippled by industrial action. Sadly I see things getting worse, and the government running TfL directly soon  |
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Post by Volvo on Jun 25, 2022 6:03:07 GMT
The fuel prices are beyond ridiculous is all I have to say.
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Post by snowman on Jun 25, 2022 6:52:41 GMT
The fuel prices are beyond ridiculous is all I have to say. Government policy over last 40 years, make the country dependent on imports, and changes in world prices. We closed our coal fired electricity stations (and didn’t replace some nuclear stations either). to replace them with imported gas. Have closed major UK oil refineries eg Coryton, Shellhaven (both Essex), Isle of Grain (Kent), Llandarcy and Milford Haven (Wales), so have to import 20% of our diesel from Russia. So anyone who thinks Russia should be sanctioned should stop using diesel fuel. |
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Post by ronnie on Jun 25, 2022 8:16:16 GMT
The fuel prices are beyond ridiculous is all I have to say. Government policy over last 40 years, make the country dependent on imports, and changes in world prices. We closed our coal fired electricity stations (and didn’t replace some nuclear stations either). to replace them with imported gas. Have closed major UK oil refineries eg Coryton, Shellhaven (both Essex), Isle of Grain (Kent), Llandarcy and Milford Haven (Wales), so have to import 20% of our diesel from Russia. So anyone who thinks Russia should be sanctioned should stop using diesel fuel. I am all for decarbonisation. However geopolitics (and common sense) dictates you prepare the alternative first and then shut down the old stuff. N this case the U.K. (and EU) committee harakiri by shutting everything down first with alternatives still a few years away Coal is available in almost every country so would have made sense to hold on to it. With both oil & gas you are ultimately at the mercy of dictators in general - people keep doing the E but forget the S and the G. All the decarb stuff has done in recent times is make dictatorships more prosperous |
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Post by SILENCED on Jun 25, 2022 8:59:03 GMT
Government policy over last 40 years, make the country dependent on imports, and changes in world prices. We closed our coal fired electricity stations (and didn’t replace some nuclear stations either). to replace them with imported gas. Have closed major UK oil refineries eg Coryton, Shellhaven (both Essex), Isle of Grain (Kent), Llandarcy and Milford Haven (Wales), so have to import 20% of our diesel from Russia. So anyone who thinks Russia should be sanctioned should stop using diesel fuel. I am all for decarbonisation. However geopolitics (and common sense) dictates you prepare the alternative first and then shut down the old stuff. N this case the U.K. (and EU) committee harakiri by shutting everything down first with alternatives still a few years away Coal is available in almost every country so would have made sense to hold on to it. With both oil & gas you are ultimately at the mercy of dictators in general - people keep doing the E but forget the S and the G. All the decarb stuff has done in recent times is make dictatorships more prosperous Bit like that proposed coal mine. On the face of it a bad idea. But look deeper, it was for the type of coal used in the production of steel, for which no alternative fuel solution currently exists. If we want to manufacture steel what are the options. Mine it locally, or have it mined in the US and transported to the UK for the steel works. So yes, on a quick look seems like a bad idea, what when you examine the options, unless you want the UK to abandon steel manufacturing, it was probably the best option. Same goes for North Sea gas rights. Yes, on the surface a bad idea, but reality is we are importing more at huge cost. We are just letting other nations profit from our needs and requirements. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jun 25, 2022 10:00:15 GMT
To give TfL their due, they did negotiate a lot of tender extensions before the threat of the current price rises reared its head. We have been used to seeing virtually all routes being offered, and taking up 2 year extensions recently. With the rise in prices recently, will be see a decrease in the percentage taking up extensions as routes are no longer profitable? TfL have also scrapped 40 routes or drastically altered others and reduced frequency of buses... 318 is running with 14 year old buses which have no stop-start or hybrid system, (thankfully due to the way TfL have ruined roads by lower speeds, very few buses get to 30 or 40 miles an hour, but I'm sure there's lots of clogged DPF (diesel particulate filters) and faulty AdBlue systems as nothing gets to stretch their legs, especially in central London  Boris Johnson hasn't stood up to fuel companies who since the last shortage have made a fortune and not passed lower costs on, despite a drop in demand for fuel due to lockdown in China at the moment. Fuel duty could be cut further but we know it won't ever happen  I think routes will continue be thinned out. I remember years ago, you couldn't move for buses along Oxford Street. Now the fewer ones remaining mostly carry oxygen. TfL need to adapt by reducing services where there's no demand rather than chopping up routes or canning them. More of us work from home, and even less will bother with a system crippled by industrial action. Sadly I see things getting worse, and the government running TfL directly soon  It is not just the fuel companies made a fortune, the government also has on the rising prices, as more than half of what you pay for at the pump goes back to the treasury. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Jun 28, 2022 14:17:44 GMT
TfL have also scrapped 40 routes or drastically altered others and reduced frequency of buses... 318 is running with 14 year old buses which have no stop-start or hybrid system, (thankfully due to the way TfL have ruined roads by lower speeds, very few buses get to 30 or 40 miles an hour, but I'm sure there's lots of clogged DPF (diesel particulate filters) and faulty AdBlue systems as nothing gets to stretch their legs, especially in central London Boris Johnson hasn't stood up to fuel companies who since the last shortage have made a fortune and not passed lower costs on, despite a drop in demand for fuel due to lockdown in China at the moment. Fuel duty could be cut further but we know it won't ever happen I think routes will continue be thinned out. I remember years ago, you couldn't move for buses along Oxford Street. Now the fewer ones remaining mostly carry oxygen. TfL need to adapt by reducing services where there's no demand rather than chopping up routes or canning them. More of us work from home, and even less will bother with a system crippled by industrial action. Sadly I see things getting worse, and the government running TfL directly soon It is not just the fuel companies made a fortune, the government also has on the rising prices, as more than half of what you pay for at the pump goes back to the treasury. That money back into the treasury helps pay for the NHS, benefits, civil servants. If you cut that than the government borrows more pushing the entire country further into debt. Don’t like it, don’t drive. Simple. |
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Post by WH241 on Jun 28, 2022 14:33:20 GMT
It is not just the fuel companies made a fortune, the government also has on the rising prices, as more than half of what you pay for at the pump goes back to the treasury. That money back into the treasury helps pay for the NHS, benefits, civil servants. If you cut that than the government borrows more pushing the entire country further into debt. Don’t like it, don’t drive. Simple. Not that simple just to say don’t like it don’t drive! Never have petrol prices increased at the rate they are! The government could help more even if temporarily! People who need cars for their jobs like care workers are having to leave the profession as the reimbursements don’t cover what the petrol costs. I hope you appreciate the more diesel and petrol prices rise the more the cost of other products go up as well? |
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Post by SILENCED on Jun 28, 2022 14:37:06 GMT
That money back into the treasury helps pay for the NHS, benefits, civil servants. If you cut that than the government borrows more pushing the entire country further into debt. Don’t like it, don’t drive. Simple. Not that simple just to say don’t like it don’t drive! Never have petrol prices increased at the rate they are! The government could help more even if temporarily! People who need cars for there jobs like care workers are having to leave the profession as the reimbursements don’t cover what the petrol costs. I hope you appreciate the more diesel and petrol prices rise the more the cost of other products go up as well? Surely it is down to employers to ensure their employees are not out of pocket over fuel costs? If it was not for the environmental movement, then the UK could be producing more of its own .... but we don't ... we import at at huge costs, both economically and enviromentaly |
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Post by WH241 on Jun 28, 2022 14:51:05 GMT
Not that simple just to say don’t like it don’t drive! Never have petrol prices increased at the rate they are! The government could help more even if temporarily! People who need cars for there jobs like care workers are having to leave the profession as the reimbursements don’t cover what the petrol costs. I hope you appreciate the more diesel and petrol prices rise the more the cost of other products go up as well? Surely it is down to employers to ensure their employees are not out of pocket over fuel costs? If it was not for the environmental movement, then the UK could be producing more of its own .... but we don't ... we import at at huge costs, both economically and enviromentaly The reimbursements can’t keep up with the rising costs. The point is the government could do more to help but are happy to take a the extra tax. Guess its a easy way for them to recoup some of the Covid costs! We are being hit in every direction with food costs, more NI and still have the October energy increase to come! |
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Post by SILENCED on Jun 28, 2022 14:53:59 GMT
Surely it is down to employers to ensure their employees are not out of pocket over fuel costs? If it was not for the environmental movement, then the UK could be producing more of its own .... but we don't ... we import at at huge costs, both economically and enviromentaly The reimbursements can’t keep up with the rising costs. The point is the government could do more to help but are happy to take a the extra tax. Guess its a easy way for them to recoup some of the Covid costs! We are being hit in every direction with food costs, more NI and still have the October energy increase to come! In that case, if you vehicle is vital for your work, then they need to supply fuel cards. |
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