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Post by ronnie on Jul 30, 2023 22:12:30 GMT
Excellent. The sooner LTNs are removed the better!
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Post by vjaska on Jul 30, 2023 23:32:02 GMT
Excellent. The sooner LTNs are removed the better! I do agree with this as LTN's do not reduce congestion but merely plonk it and pollution onto main roads meaning the problems are simply dumped onto someone else's doorstep rather than reduced or eliminated entirely, but there were parts of his statement that rather worried me in relation to car use in general, it sounded very similar to what the Transport Secretary, Mark Harper said previously, basically instead of incentivising people to ditch their cars, they are now openly encouraging further use which is absolutely backwards but something we've all come to expect from this government - quite hypocritical of the Tories when it was they who accelerated & funded LTN's as Labour MP Louise Haigh correctly said, though they are equally hypocritical in this given a number of Labour areas including my own, ignored people's concerns and implemented them regardless.
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Post by ibus246 on Jul 31, 2023 4:22:33 GMT
I always drive at 30 anyway and think most people do in the 20 zones. It’s unnatural driving at 20. Election looming I guess, think the fool that is Rishi Sunak will need to try much harder.
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Post by greenboy on Jul 31, 2023 6:22:37 GMT
I always drive at 30 anyway and think most people do in the 20 zones. It’s unnatural driving at 20. Election looming I guess, think the fool that is Rishi Sunak will need to try much harder. Whilst the fool that is Keir Starmer still can't decide whether he's for or against ULEZ expansion and whilst he dithers Rishi is making his position clear. I've no problem complying with 20mph on narrow residential roads but on main roads it does indeed feel unnatural to drive at 20mph.
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Post by wirewiper on Jul 31, 2023 7:35:37 GMT
Hmm. To quote from the article: Mr Sunak said: "The vast majority of people in the country use their cars to get around and are dependent on cars. I just want to make sure people know that I'm on their side in supporting them to use their cars to do all the things that matter to them," he said.
Using does not equate to dependency. Ask anyone who has the occasional glass of wine with a meal. Also how does this square with the Government's own target of 50% of all journeys being walked, wheeled or cycled by 2030?
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 31, 2023 8:04:11 GMT
Hmm. To quote from the article: Mr Sunak said: "The vast majority of people in the country use their cars to get around and are dependent on cars. I just want to make sure people know that I'm on their side in supporting them to use their cars to do all the things that matter to them," he said.
Using does not equate to dependency. Ask anyone who has the occasional glass of wine with a meal. Also how does this square with the Government's own target of 50% of all journeys being walked, wheeled or cycled by 2030? Think stripping luxuries off your population so you can be a tree hugger will not get you plenty of votes. People will not randomly want to get rid of their car as its bad for the environment because the vast majority of people don't care and are not going to inconvenience themselves for this.
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Post by wirewiper on Jul 31, 2023 8:18:52 GMT
Hmm. To quote from the article: Mr Sunak said: "The vast majority of people in the country use their cars to get around and are dependent on cars. I just want to make sure people know that I'm on their side in supporting them to use their cars to do all the things that matter to them," he said.
Using does not equate to dependency. Ask anyone who has the occasional glass of wine with a meal. Also how does this square with the Government's own target of 50% of all journeys being walked, wheeled or cycled by 2030? Think stripping luxuries off your population so you can be a tree hugger will not get you plenty of votes. People will not randomly want to get rid of their car as its bad for the environment because the vast majority of people don't care and are not going to inconvenience themselves for this. However the word that Sunak is using is "dependent". Once dependency rather than choice becomes the baked-in attitude, it changes the assumptions about how people behave and how the built environment needs to be designed to accommodate this. I will remind you again that achieving 50% of all journeys being walked, wheeled or cycled by 2030 is the target of the current Conservative government. Maybe Sunak just forgot.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 31, 2023 8:33:01 GMT
Think stripping luxuries off your population so you can be a tree hugger will not get you plenty of votes. People will not randomly want to get rid of their car as its bad for the environment because the vast majority of people don't care and are not going to inconvenience themselves for this. However the word that Sunak is using is "dependent". Once dependency rather than choice becomes the baked-in attitude, it changes the assumptions about how people behave and how the built environment needs to be designed to accommodate this. I will remind you again that achieving 50% of all journeys being walked, wheeled or cycled by 2030 is the target of the current Conservative government. Maybe Sunak just forgot. However dependency is the right word. Even in London people are dependent on cars. People can say whatever they want about a bus, but someone living along the 287 in Rainham needs to wait 15 minutes for a bus, they however don't need to wait for a car. They need to plan their life around a bus, so in turn depend on the car as the bus isn't going to be suiting their needs. People won't be dependent on cars the day public transport isn't something people need to plan their lives around. A good example of people not being dependent on a car would be a corridor like Ilford to Stratford or Brixton to Streatham where you can effectively walk to a stop and a bus will turn up.
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Post by wirewiper on Jul 31, 2023 8:57:28 GMT
However the word that Sunak is using is "dependent". Once dependency rather than choice becomes the baked-in attitude, it changes the assumptions about how people behave and how the built environment needs to be designed to accommodate this. I will remind you again that achieving 50% of all journeys being walked, wheeled or cycled by 2030 is the target of the current Conservative government. Maybe Sunak just forgot. However dependency is the right word. Even in London people are dependent on cars. People can say whatever they want about a bus, but someone living along the 287 in Rainham needs to wait 15 minutes for a bus, they however don't need to wait for a car. They need to plan their life around a bus, so in turn depend on the car as the bus isn't going to be suiting their needs. People won't be dependent on cars the day public transport isn't something people need to plan their lives around. A good example of people not being dependent on a car would be a corridor like Ilford to Stratford or Brixton to Streatham where you can effectively walk to a stop and a bus will turn up. Dependency is not the right word, it is choice. And you are ignoring walking and cycling which is the argument I am making, although trains and buses are also options. Some people may feel they are dependent on their cars (I'm guessing you do), but others choose not to have a car at all, or if they do have a car they sometimes choose other means of travelling. I'm not sure that a 15-minute bus frequency is something people need to plan their lives around but there are people outside London who quite happily organise their own car-free travel around far sparser frequencies.
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Post by northlondon83 on Jul 31, 2023 9:03:30 GMT
However the word that Sunak is using is "dependent". Once dependency rather than choice becomes the baked-in attitude, it changes the assumptions about how people behave and how the built environment needs to be designed to accommodate this. I will remind you again that achieving 50% of all journeys being walked, wheeled or cycled by 2030 is the target of the current Conservative government. Maybe Sunak just forgot. However dependency is the right word. Even in London people are dependent on cars. People can say whatever they want about a bus, but someone living along the 287 in Rainham needs to wait 15 minutes for a bus, they however don't need to wait for a car. They need to plan their life around a bus, so in turn depend on the car as the bus isn't going to be suiting their needs. People won't be dependent on cars the day public transport isn't something people need to plan their lives around. A good example of people not being dependent on a car would be a corridor like Ilford to Stratford or Brixton to Streatham where you can effectively walk to a stop and a bus will turn up. I think that everyone's situation is different. Where I live I can rely on public transport to get me anywhere in London which is adequate enough. I don't see what's the big deal with waiting 15 minutes for a bus, its pretty much the norm for some areas of London. I'd understand being more pro car in the places where public transport are very scarce such as around Downe and Biggin Hill. Additionally public transport outside London is abysmal. One of my mates travels from Uxbridge to Gerrard's Cross for work and takes the bus however it runs at a frequency of 90 minutes. What good is that when you need to get to work? He doesn't drive because it is too expensive. The cost of driving is far bigger than using public transport, however in some areas there simply aren't good enough transport links.
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Post by WH241 on Jul 31, 2023 9:14:18 GMT
However the word that Sunak is using is "dependent". Once dependency rather than choice becomes the baked-in attitude, it changes the assumptions about how people behave and how the built environment needs to be designed to accommodate this. I will remind you again that achieving 50% of all journeys being walked, wheeled or cycled by 2030 is the target of the current Conservative government. Maybe Sunak just forgot. However dependency is the right word. Even in London people are dependent on cars. People can say whatever they want about a bus, but someone living along the 287 in Rainham needs to wait 15 minutes for a bus, they however don't need to wait for a car. They need to plan their life around a bus, so in turn depend on the car as the bus isn't going to be suiting their needs. People won't be dependent on cars the day public transport isn't something people need to plan their lives around. A good example of people not being dependent on a car would be a corridor like Ilford to Stratford or Brixton to Streatham where you can effectively walk to a stop and a bus will turn up. Having a car is fine but you have to weigh up the cost of parking depending on where you are going. I find some parking charges in Newham an absolute rip off and some places are no return within a certain amount of hours. I know some places offer free parking but that’s becoming rare. Is it really that hard to plan your journey around a bus time? When did people become so dependent on having to have everything in an instant and not have the ability to forward plan.
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Post by SILENCED on Jul 31, 2023 9:16:26 GMT
Think stripping luxuries off your population so you can be a tree hugger will not get you plenty of votes. People will not randomly want to get rid of their car as its bad for the environment because the vast majority of people don't care and are not going to inconvenience themselves for this. However the word that Sunak is using is "dependent". Once dependency rather than choice becomes the baked-in attitude, it changes the assumptions about how people behave and how the built environment needs to be designed to accommodate this. I will remind you again that achieving 50% of all journeys being walked, wheeled or cycled by 2030 is the target of the current Conservative government. Maybe Sunak just forgot. You can't say that. Lot of factors come into play. Where you live, where you work, where your kids go to school. There are many journeys in outer London that are not feasible by pubic transport. If you have to go in the wrong direction to make a connection in rush hour, you not reasonably going to do it without severely detrimentally effecting your work life balance, it becomes a dependency. At what stage does a choice become a dependency, when it takes 1, 2, 3 , or maybe 4 hours out of your day?
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Post by greenboy on Jul 31, 2023 9:54:01 GMT
Hmm. To quote from the article: Mr Sunak said: "The vast majority of people in the country use their cars to get around and are dependent on cars. I just want to make sure people know that I'm on their side in supporting them to use their cars to do all the things that matter to them," he said.
Using does not equate to dependency. Ask anyone who has the occasional glass of wine with a meal. Also how does this square with the Government's own target of 50% of all journeys being walked, wheeled or cycled by 2030? Think stripping luxuries off your population so you can be a tree hugger will not get you plenty of votes. People will not randomly want to get rid of their car as its bad for the environment because the vast majority of people don't care and are not going to inconvenience themselves for this. Exactly this and there's no getting away from the fact that the car is by far the best option for the vast majority of journeys.
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Post by SILENCED on Jul 31, 2023 10:31:12 GMT
Think stripping luxuries off your population so you can be a tree hugger will not get you plenty of votes. People will not randomly want to get rid of their car as its bad for the environment because the vast majority of people don't care and are not going to inconvenience themselves for this. Exactly this and there's no getting away from the fact that the car is by far the best option for the vast majority of journeys. To be honest, been liking what I am hearing from Rishi over the past 48 hours. Now we wait to see if there is any action behind these words, or whether they are are just hot air. A politicians words do not impress me much these days, their actions may do.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 31, 2023 11:16:19 GMT
However dependency is the right word. Even in London people are dependent on cars. People can say whatever they want about a bus, but someone living along the 287 in Rainham needs to wait 15 minutes for a bus, they however don't need to wait for a car. They need to plan their life around a bus, so in turn depend on the car as the bus isn't going to be suiting their needs. People won't be dependent on cars the day public transport isn't something people need to plan their lives around. A good example of people not being dependent on a car would be a corridor like Ilford to Stratford or Brixton to Streatham where you can effectively walk to a stop and a bus will turn up. Having a car is fine but you have to weigh up the cost of parking depending on where you are going. I find some parking charges in Newham an absolute rip off and some places are no return within a certain amount of hours. I know some places offer free parking but that’s becoming rare. Is it really that hard to plan your journey around a bus time? When did people become so dependent on having to have everything in an instant and not have the ability to forward plan. It's an uneeded aspect to the day, people are impatient now and you have to plan your day and policies around an impatient population. 15 minutes of me waiting for a bus is still 15 minutes I have now wasted of a day when I could have been doing something else.
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