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Post by 365tohaveringpark on Jun 5, 2024 17:10:38 GMT
The SL3 still has had more curtailments than the SL2 since they have started... The first day is almost always not the best for every operator but again I feel like some people here just forget that and bash Arriva and particularly DX over things that TFL and their contractors are to blame for I'm not sure what SL2 you've been using but whether Arriva are to do with it or not the operation of that route is completely abysmal and something certainly has to change regarding it. It isn't great (the driver changeovers and Ilford Lane) but it sure is better than Stagecoach's abysmal service on the 365 north of Romford... where with the SL2 you at least get a bus going to your destination regardless of how late it is... And I feel you are kind of biased because you always bash DX yet for 12 years that a DX route has been local to me, the 128 and 150 and now the 175, they have done a great job with the respective routes, I can't comment on the 173, 325 or 368 as I haven't ever used those.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jun 5, 2024 17:12:04 GMT
I'm not sure what SL2 you've been using but whether Arriva are to do with it or not the operation of that route is completely abysmal and something certainly has to change regarding it. It isn't great (the driver changeovers and Ilford Lane) but it sure is better than Stagecoach's abysmal service on the 365 north of Romford... where with the SL2 you at least get a bus going to your destination regardless of how late it is... And I feel you are kind of biased because you always bash DX yet for 12 years that a DX route has been local to me, the 128 and 150 and now the 175, they have done a great job with the respective routes, I can't comment on the 173, 325 or 368 as I haven't ever used those. So presumably you aren't local to the SL2 and have not been a victim of the mass turns to Barking multiple times in a row with near no service going to North Woolwich.
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Post by 365tohaveringpark on Jun 5, 2024 17:16:51 GMT
It isn't great (the driver changeovers and Ilford Lane) but it sure is better than Stagecoach's abysmal service on the 365 north of Romford... where with the SL2 you at least get a bus going to your destination regardless of how late it is... And I feel you are kind of biased because you always bash DX yet for 12 years that a DX route has been local to me, the 128 and 150 and now the 175, they have done a great job with the respective routes, I can't comment on the 173, 325 or 368 as I haven't ever used those. So presumably you aren't local to the SL2 and have not been a victim of the mass turns to Barking multiple times in a row with near no service going to North Woolwich. I use the route during peak times and I always see them go to North Woolwich. The SL2 has a very bad traffic issues, with what you describe as 'Near no service' being exactly the same what Stagecoach does with the 365 which is to abandon the route at Parkside Avenue with no service to Havering Park for around 20-30 mins it once was so bad there wasn't a bus to Havering Park for 40 mins on a Sunday... a Sunday there is no excuse I can think of for a bus to just not show up on a Sunday.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jun 5, 2024 17:24:32 GMT
So presumably you aren't local to the SL2 and have not been a victim of the mass turns to Barking multiple times in a row with near no service going to North Woolwich. I use the route during peak times and I always see them go to North Woolwich. The SL2 has a very bad traffic issues, with what you describe as 'Near no service' being exactly the same what Stagecoach does with the 365 which is to abandon the route at Parkside Avenue with no service to Havering Park for around 20-30 mins it once was so bad there wasn't a bus to Havering Park for 40 mins on a Sunday... a Sunday there is no excuse I can think of for a bus to just not show up on a Sunday. If you now acknowledge the SL2 has near no service going south of Barking, why did you initially say the buses would be making it to the end, when they obviously don't. I can't comment for what's happening on the 365 but can on the SL2 as that's local to me and the operation on it is frankly no different to the poor offering the 368 had and the completely abysmal performance the 173 had with Arriva.
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Post by matthieu1221 on Jun 5, 2024 18:24:21 GMT
What operator at all in London has randomly changed blinds just because a destination on iBus has changed? There's not a single example of it. The difference Arriva have is that they don't blind buses at all.
My reply (not sure why i cant get it out of the box):
Stagecoach changed the blind on the 394 from Islington ANGEL to Islington TOLPUDDLE STREET when the iBus updated. It's not really the topic at hand here but surely Islington Angel was a better destination that Islington Tolpuddle Street for the occasional passenger?
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Post by Paul on Jun 5, 2024 18:59:58 GMT
I only bash Stagecoach because for the 12 years I've used their route they have been nothing but the worst experience ever. I mentioned the blinds on the SL2 because although the situation wasn't great, I feel like DX and Arriva get unneccessarily bashed extra, for the blinds but also for the 'poor service' when the SL3 probably has equal or worse service There is nothing wrong with the SL3 I was catching up with a colleague this week from DT who was at N for classroom work and the SL3 is just as reliable as the 269 in addition the 269 has lost a lot of patronage because of Route SL3. The only time service on the SL3 falls apart is when there are obstructive roadworks on line of route. I spent a huge amount of time sitting in traffic at Chislehurst War Memorial, Sidcup Station, Penhill Road and Long Lane this morning and yet I pulled into Thamesmead bang on time and departed bang on time and the same goes for the bus in front and the bus behind I’ve been talking with ex Stagecoach drivers on the 269 and they’ve said the same about a lot of patronage switching to the SL3 from the 269
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Post by 365tohaveringpark on Jun 5, 2024 19:45:43 GMT
I use the route during peak times and I always see them go to North Woolwich. The SL2 has a very bad traffic issues, with what you describe as 'Near no service' being exactly the same what Stagecoach does with the 365 which is to abandon the route at Parkside Avenue with no service to Havering Park for around 20-30 mins it once was so bad there wasn't a bus to Havering Park for 40 mins on a Sunday... a Sunday there is no excuse I can think of for a bus to just not show up on a Sunday. If you now acknowledge the SL2 has near no service going south of Barking, why did you initially say the buses would be making it to the end, when they obviously don't. I can't comment for what's happening on the 365 but can on the SL2 as that's local to me and the operation on it is frankly no different to the poor offering the 368 had and the completely abysmal performance the 173 had with Arriva. I use the SL2 from Ilford to Walthamstow every weekday during rush hours... I dont ever touch Ilford Lane on the SL2 so what happens there for the SL2 isn't up to me to comment on but I do see every SL2 at Ilford be blinded for North Woolwich. The 365's service is horrendous which is a shame as its a nice route, as the 248 almost always makes it to Romford and the 175, 294 and 375 almost always end up at their final terminus and so does the 252 as past Romford they can't really curtail the route (lucky them) but the 365 just makes zero sense as to why its that bad or unpredictable if other route parallel it for quite a large chunk of the route and they all seem fine...
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jun 5, 2024 19:57:32 GMT
If you now acknowledge the SL2 has near no service going south of Barking, why did you initially say the buses would be making it to the end, when they obviously don't. I can't comment for what's happening on the 365 but can on the SL2 as that's local to me and the operation on it is frankly no different to the poor offering the 368 had and the completely abysmal performance the 173 had with Arriva. I use the SL2 from Ilford to Walthamstow every weekday during rush hours... I dont ever touch Ilford Lane on the SL2 so what happens there for the SL2 isn't up to me to comment on but I do see every SL2 at Ilford be blinded for North Woolwich. The 365's service is horrendous which is a shame as its a nice route, as the 248 almost always makes it to Romford and the 175, 294 and 375 almost always end up at their final terminus and so does the 252 as past Romford they can't really curtail the route (lucky them) but the 365 just makes zero sense as to why its that bad or unpredictable if other route parallel it for quite a large chunk of the route and they all seem fine... So if you don't actually use or see that portion of the SL2 then surely don't make such claims on the route, especially when the portion of the route you don't use is what's concerned? I've mentioned multiple times now that the SL2 needs to be adjusted as the timetable at the moment doesn't seem to do it any favours as there's buses being mass turned at Barking all the time or buses are being regulated all the time. I'd probably give it a few more months so TfL and Arriva can collect more data but hopefully a new timetable will be out soon after that. Unsure why the 365 has hijacked the Superloop thread in the first place.
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Post by greg on Jun 6, 2024 8:21:41 GMT
It's not really the topic at hand here but surely Islington Angel was a better destination that Islington Tolpuddle Street for the occasional passenger? The 274 was also changed, but I think this was reverted back to Islington, Angel as it doesn’t actually terminate at Tolpuddle Street unlike the 394. I do remember the iBus changing, bar in mind I havent used the 274 in months, but I still see them around and I think its just the 394. The best decison IMO would have just been Islington, Baron Market or Islington, Sainsburys.
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Post by DT 11 on Jun 6, 2024 8:43:06 GMT
There is nothing wrong with the SL3 I was catching up with a colleague this week from DT who was at N for classroom work and the SL3 is just as reliable as the 269 in addition the 269 has lost a lot of patronage because of Route SL3. The only time service on the SL3 falls apart is when there are obstructive roadworks on line of route. I spent a huge amount of time sitting in traffic at Chislehurst War Memorial, Sidcup Station, Penhill Road and Long Lane this morning and yet I pulled into Thamesmead bang on time and departed bang on time and the same goes for the bus in front and the bus behind I’ve been talking with ex Stagecoach drivers on the 269 and they’ve said the same about a lot of patronage switching to the SL3 from the 269 The running times must be similar to the 269 then when I used to do it there was plenty of time to get through all those traffic hotspots. Every year Thames Water do there annual ceremony of placing temporary traffic lights outside Queen Mary’s Hospital repairing the same pipes that burst. Overall I do not find it surprising that most people have started using the SL3 over the 269 I always found the it be mostly an express skipping most bus stops and a lot of passengers want the key stops, during school times your more likely to serve every stop along the route.
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Post by Paul on Jun 6, 2024 9:26:16 GMT
The only time service on the SL3 falls apart is when there are obstructive roadworks on line of route. I spent a huge amount of time sitting in traffic at Chislehurst War Memorial, Sidcup Station, Penhill Road and Long Lane this morning and yet I pulled into Thamesmead bang on time and departed bang on time and the same goes for the bus in front and the bus behind I’ve been talking with ex Stagecoach drivers on the 269 and they’ve said the same about a lot of patronage switching to the SL3 from the 269 The running times must be similar to the 269 then when I used to do it there was plenty of time to get through all those traffic hotspots. Every year Thames Water do there annual ceremony of placing temporary traffic lights outside Queen Mary’s Hospital repairing the same pipes that burst. Overall I do not find it surprising that most people have started using the SL3 over the 269 I always found the it be mostly an express skipping most bus stops and a lot of passengers want the key stops, during school times your more likely to serve every stop along the route. From what I’ve seen the running times aren’t vastly different at all - the major difference is us not stopping between Sidcup Station and Bexleyheath Library but even then if Penhill Road is sticky then the 269 doesn’t end up that far behind In the evenings, where the 269 is every 20 minutes and we’re every 15 there’s that one coinciding trip every hour and the running times are actually identical up to Sidcup Station which makes no sense to me given we’re supposed to be stopping far less. But, as you say, the 269 does skip stops a lot of the time and particularly at night. That’s why I think the 269 could be extended over the SL3 route in the evenings and the SL3 could probably stop running at about 9 or 10 o’clock. It just seems wasteful to have two services between Bromley and Bexleyheath carrying only a handful of passengers each
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Post by DT 11 on Jun 6, 2024 9:41:56 GMT
The running times must be similar to the 269 then when I used to do it there was plenty of time to get through all those traffic hotspots. Every year Thames Water do there annual ceremony of placing temporary traffic lights outside Queen Mary’s Hospital repairing the same pipes that burst. Overall I do not find it surprising that most people have started using the SL3 over the 269 I always found the it be mostly an express skipping most bus stops and a lot of passengers want the key stops, during school times your more likely to serve every stop along the route. From what I’ve seen the running times aren’t vastly different at all - the major difference is us not stopping between Sidcup Station and Bexleyheath Library but even then if Penhill Road is sticky then the 269 doesn’t end up that far behind In the evenings, where the 269 is every 20 minutes and we’re every 15 there’s that one coinciding trip every hour and the running times are actually identical up to Sidcup Station which makes no sense to me given we’re supposed to be stopping far less. But, as you say, the 269 does skip stops a lot of the time and particularly at night. That’s why I think the 269 could be extended over the SL3 route in the evenings and the SL3 could probably stop running at about 9 or 10 o’clock. It just seems wasteful to have two services between Bromley and Bexleyheath carrying only a handful of passengers each I agree I think it would be good if it was extended to Beckenham Junction and the 162 curtailed to Bromley North.
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Post by greenboy on Jun 6, 2024 11:44:11 GMT
The running times must be similar to the 269 then when I used to do it there was plenty of time to get through all those traffic hotspots. Every year Thames Water do there annual ceremony of placing temporary traffic lights outside Queen Mary’s Hospital repairing the same pipes that burst. Overall I do not find it surprising that most people have started using the SL3 over the 269 I always found the it be mostly an express skipping most bus stops and a lot of passengers want the key stops, during school times your more likely to serve every stop along the route. From what I’ve seen the running times aren’t vastly different at all - the major difference is us not stopping between Sidcup Station and Bexleyheath Library but even then if Penhill Road is sticky then the 269 doesn’t end up that far behind In the evenings, where the 269 is every 20 minutes and we’re every 15 there’s that one coinciding trip every hour and the running times are actually identical up to Sidcup Station which makes no sense to me given we’re supposed to be stopping far less. But, as you say, the 269 does skip stops a lot of the time and particularly at night. That’s why I think the 269 could be extended over the SL3 route in the evenings and the SL3 could probably stop running at about 9 or 10 o’clock. It just seems wasteful to have two services between Bromley and Bexleyheath carrying only a handful of passengers each I agree that would be the sensible thing to do but the mayor would probably feel it undermined his pet protect. I can't see much need for limited stop services in the evening when most routes are effectively limited stop anyway.
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Post by mondraker275 on Jun 7, 2024 17:12:50 GMT
Not sure if this has been shared but below is the SL performance in the last quarter (first with all operating): January 2024 - March 2024 Route EWT Average WT %<10 %10-20 %Long Gaps SL1 1.02 7.4 71.6 25.6 1.2 SL2 1.32 7.7 70.0 26.1 1.7 Very early limited data SL3 1.79 8.1 67.0 26.9 2.9 Very early limited data SL5 0.62 7.0 74.6 24.2 0.3 Very early limited data SL7 1.31 8.7 63.2 30.7 1.3 SL8 1.35 6.5 78.9 18.9 2.1 SL9 1.20 7.6 71.5 24.9 1.6 SL10 0.68 7.1 74.1 24.4 0.5 %On time Non-Arrival Early Late SL6 67.7 9.7 5.0 17.5 SL7 75.6 7.0 1.6 15.8 From bus.data.tfl.gov.uk/boroughreports/current-quarter.pdfI have no clue why SL7 is on the High Frequency list and Low frequency list, should only be the latter. Nothing surprising although 1.35 seems high for SL8. Individual route performance are not available yet by the looks of it. As noted in another post, the usage paper has been shared with TfL members so we should get that in public domain soon.
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Post by PGAT on Jun 7, 2024 17:46:59 GMT
Very impressed with the SL5, looks like it could be in the Top 5 for lowest EWT
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