|
|
Post by enviroPB on Oct 4, 2024 21:41:05 GMT
Funnily enough, I have been thinking of what more night routes are needed for a more comprehensive night bus network in London. I was toying with a N157 from Morden to Lewisham Station; an hour's clean journey time and it would only need 6 journeys each way. An entirely manageable schedule and there should be demand after the N157 follows the 75 north-east of Anarley, The Mitre. The other one I thought about was reinstating the N213 to West Croydon, but to limit duplication on Stafford Road I would instead extend it via the SL7 to West Croydon. The timings are a bit harder to pin down but total journey time from Kingston should be around 50 minutes. I did think of the N213's original indent over the 154, but this one of London's latest finishing routes so Roundshaw residents won't get too much of a raw deal. The N157 is also not too far away. Sutton to Croydon is the only link of the SL7 that isn't covered at night, but ignoring that entirely these two town centres are too big to not be connected. The 154N running almost a full year before the Northern line was operational for Night Tube shows TfL knows that as well. Have you been to Croydon and Sutton past midnight since Covid? There isn’t much of a nightlife in either place, at least in Kingston there are clubs and bars open past 2am as well as a large uni attracting students to travel into town. There isn’t any of those things in either Sutton or Croydon so there doesn’t need to be a night route connecting them. Croydon yes, Sutton no. I was more looking at geographical spread around London and Wallington, Carshalton and Beddington are big swathes of an area not being served at night. Seeing as it's cheaper to extend an existing night route, I thought the N213 restored to Croydon albeit to a different routing than before would prove successful. Also I don't believe the old N213 served East Croydon Station, which would've drummed up more custom with the 24 hour Thameslink. Anyways it isn't the right thread to digress further, I saw a passing comment on a topic I was currently fixated on. For what it's worth (and to return back to the thread), the 157 would benefit from a frequency increase and a night link in some form. Also after visiting Carshalton regularly last month, I was astonished how the SL7 was bunching; two together and another due in 6 mins at 11pm didn't scream reliable to me. You've talked about this before but I didn't think it was that bad. |
|
|
|
Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Oct 5, 2024 4:50:25 GMT
I agree about the 213, I just meant that the recent cut from PVR 16 to 14 should be reversed - the 2018 PVR of 19 is no longer needed with the higher frequency SL7. I would disagree about the SL7 though, overcrowding is pretty much standard on the route throughout the day and it desperately needs the extra capacity. An increase will also give enough capacity to add some extra stops at Beddington, Hanworth and Harlington Corner. The S2 really is a perfect example of what happens when bus services are improved properly! I think the problem with the SL7 stems from poor management of the increase. It used to run like clockwork, you could count on it turning up every 30 minutes bang on the timetable or within a few minutes. I’ll turn up to a stop now and 2 are due within a few minutes and then nothing for another 20+ minutes. The worst experience was when then driver was told to hold in Cheam for 45 minutes to regulate, I took a 213 instead. Indeed, last week I saw an SL7 head east as my 293 reached the traffic lights at North Cheam. Then after I reached my stop it felt well under 10 minutes until my own SL7 turned up. |
|
|
|
Post by greenboy on Oct 5, 2024 5:06:44 GMT
Have you been to Croydon and Sutton past midnight since Covid? There isn’t much of a nightlife in either place, at least in Kingston there are clubs and bars open past 2am as well as a large uni attracting students to travel into town. There isn’t any of those things in either Sutton or Croydon so there doesn’t need to be a night route connecting them. Croydon yes, Sutton no. I was more looking at geographical spread around London and Wallington, Carshalton and Beddington are big swathes of an area not being served at night. Seeing as it's cheaper to extend an existing night route, I thought the N213 restored to Croydon albeit to a different routing than before would prove successful. Also I don't believe the old N213 served East Croydon Station, which would've drummed up more custom with the 24 hour Thameslink. Anyways it isn't the right thread to digress further, I saw a passing comment on a topic I was currently fixated on. For what it's worth (and to return back to the thread), the 157 would benefit from a frequency increase and a night link in some form. Also after visiting Carshalton regularly last month, I was astonished how the SL7 was bunching; two together and another due in 6 mins at 11pm didn't scream reliable to me. You've talked about this before but I didn't think it was that bad. The same could be said about Croydon and Bromley but the 119 night service continues even though it's generally poorly used from what I see of it and the lack of a link between Croydon and Sutton is an obvious gap in the nightbus network. I've seen bunching like that late evening on the SL7. |
|
|
|
Post by bluepuffy on Oct 5, 2024 5:54:41 GMT
Croydon yes, Sutton no. I was more looking at geographical spread around London and Wallington, Carshalton and Beddington are big swathes of an area not being served at night. Seeing as it's cheaper to extend an existing night route, I thought the N213 restored to Croydon albeit to a different routing than before would prove successful. Also I don't believe the old N213 served East Croydon Station, which would've drummed up more custom with the 24 hour Thameslink. Anyways it isn't the right thread to digress further, I saw a passing comment on a topic I was currently fixated on. For what it's worth (and to return back to the thread), the 157 would benefit from a frequency increase and a night link in some form. Also after visiting Carshalton regularly last month, I was astonished how the SL7 was bunching; two together and another due in 6 mins at 11pm didn't scream reliable to me. You've talked about this before but I didn't think it was that bad. The same could be said about Croydon and Bromley but the 119 night service continues even though it's generally poorly used from what I see of it and the lack of a link between Croydon and Sutton is an obvious gap in the nightbus network. I've seen bunching like that late evening on the SL7. The main problem with Croydon and Sutton with night services is (other than the dead nightlife), there aren't really any routes that can be extended through the areas without TfL finding an issue The N119 or the N213 are the most viable candidates for an extension, one already has a history of formerly going to WC, whilst the other, not directly serving WCS, could easily be diverted from CC/CA and sent onwards to Sutton. The only other option would be to merge routes that don't already have a night route, I saw somebody bring up the 157/75 and that could work well, it's just a shame the night life has fallen so drastically now, and with options to hire Ubers and whatnot, there's even less of a reason to use a bus at night. |
|
|
|
Post by greenboy on Oct 5, 2024 7:06:51 GMT
The same could be said about Croydon and Bromley but the 119 night service continues even though it's generally poorly used from what I see of it and the lack of a link between Croydon and Sutton is an obvious gap in the nightbus network. I've seen bunching like that late evening on the SL7. The main problem with Croydon and Sutton with night services is (other than the dead nightlife), there aren't really any routes that can be extended through the areas without TfL finding an issue The N119 or the N213 are the most viable candidates for an extension, one already has a history of formerly going to WC, whilst the other, not directly serving WCS, could easily be diverted from CC/CA and sent onwards to Sutton. The only other option would be to merge routes that don't already have a night route, I saw somebody bring up the 157/75 and that could work well, it's just a shame the night life has fallen so drastically now, and with options to hire Ubers and whatnot, there's even less of a reason to use a bus at night. Nightlife has declined pretty much everywhere in recent years but if a night service between Bromley and Croydon is justified then surely a night service between Croydon and Sutton should be as well? Apparently when the N213 was removed from Croydon the plan was to introduce a night service on the 154 but for whatever reason that didn't happen. As for the 75, I think the N47 could be rerouted from Catford town centre over the 75 route to Croydon and it also has the additional benefit of passing near many London Overground stations between Shoreditch and Croydon. |
|
|
|
Post by bluepuffy on Oct 5, 2024 7:17:05 GMT
The main problem with Croydon and Sutton with night services is (other than the dead nightlife), there aren't really any routes that can be extended through the areas without TfL finding an issue The N119 or the N213 are the most viable candidates for an extension, one already has a history of formerly going to WC, whilst the other, not directly serving WCS, could easily be diverted from CC/CA and sent onwards to Sutton. The only other option would be to merge routes that don't already have a night route, I saw somebody bring up the 157/75 and that could work well, it's just a shame the night life has fallen so drastically now, and with options to hire Ubers and whatnot, there's even less of a reason to use a bus at night. Nightlife has declined pretty much everywhere in recent years but if a night service between Bromley and Croydon is justified then surely a night service between Croydon and Sutton should be as well? Apparently when the N213 was removed from Croydon the plan was to introduce a night service on the 154 but for whatever reason that didn't happen. As for the 75, I think the N47 could be rerouted from Catford town centre over the 75 route to Croydon and it also has the additional benefit of passing near many London Overground stations between Shoreditch and Croydon. Imo, if a night route is to be made between Croydon and Sutton, make it terminate at Morden or Wimbledon for other connections to night routes too, you have the N109, N250, N68, 64 and 264 at West Croydon, the 119 at Fiveways, the N44 and the 213 at Sutton itself and then the N133 and 93 at Morden, going a little further would get you the 57 too. |
|
|
|
Post by enviroPB on Oct 15, 2024 21:45:52 GMT
I've delayed posting this by a fortnight, so here goes:
The SL2 has been operating for 7 months now. Taken it from Walthamstow three times, and used it to get to/from North Woolwich a fair few times as a handy direct link to Barking. However I take the SL2 to Ilford at least twice weekly, and you could definitely see people appreciating the restored link to Gants Hill. Very few people who board at Barking alight at Ilford. Conversely punters at Chapel Road are a bit more confident with the SL2 to Barking, but will happily skip it if there's a driver changeover.
I see a small section of the SL2 but I see it daily, and it's pretty much a glorified college bus in-between the peaks. At rush hour, the SL2 is a good route for its links provided, but is an easily traffic prone route. Despite delays, buses manage good loads in rush hour. It can be quiet during weekend weeknight evenings though.
|
|
|
|
Post by southlondon413 on Oct 15, 2024 21:59:27 GMT
Nightlife has declined pretty much everywhere in recent years but if a night service between Bromley and Croydon is justified then surely a night service between Croydon and Sutton should be as well? Apparently when the N213 was removed from Croydon the plan was to introduce a night service on the 154 but for whatever reason that didn't happen. As for the 75, I think the N47 could be rerouted from Catford town centre over the 75 route to Croydon and it also has the additional benefit of passing near many London Overground stations between Shoreditch and Croydon. Imo, if a night route is to be made between Croydon and Sutton, make it terminate at Morden or Wimbledon for other connections to night routes too, you have the N109, N250, N68, 64 and 264 at West Croydon, the 119 at Fiveways, the N44 and the 213 at Sutton itself and then the N133 and 93 at Morden, going a little further would get you the 57 too. Hmm, if TfL were going to do that I’d suggest a 154 duplicate omitting Roundshaw to Sutton, 164 to Wimbledon Chase, 152 to South Wimbledon and 57/93 to Wimbledon Station. Could go slightly further, if the timetable worked, to Tooting Broadway via the 493. But it’s a pipe dream and probably unneeded due to a lack of nightlife across the entire route. |
|
|
|
Post by Eastlondoner62 on Nov 7, 2024 21:53:20 GMT
Have to say that the situation of the SL2 is getting worse and worse, I think TfL really should revisit this route when the time comes up again before the tender.
Yesterday we ended up leaving Walthamstow, however upon arrival at Bell Corner and then upon stopping at Waltham Forest Town Hall a 123 overtook and flew ahead of us and we didn't see that bus again as we managed to keep getting caught at lights. Then heading down Woodford Avenue a 179 was behind us and then overtook us at Gants Hill by using another lane and then also zoomed ahead of us and got to Ilford first. Then at Ilford we were at the Chapel Road stop just for an EL1 to overtake us from behind and for that bus to get to Barking first.
I know it was mentioned on another site that the 123 is actually given less time at certain times of day which would probably explain why the 123 driver wasn't hanging around, but it shows that TfL really do need to visit the SL2s timetable again to make it more express like as a route. I've often been victim to EL1s being faster than SL2s simply because SL2s can't overtake them, but for it to happen with three routes in the same trip is borderline ridiculous.
|
|
|
|
Post by atb123 on Nov 7, 2024 22:22:06 GMT
Come to think of it for Walthamstow is there any space in the bus station or will they possibly do what they did with the 212 and 275 back in 2000 and send them to St James Street. Question is which routes may need to be sent there? They already took the 97 and 357 out of the bus station to run it straight down hoe street Come to think of it, they could have taken advantage to extend either 257 or 215 up to St James st/ South Grove rather than have the SL2 out of the bus station |
|
|
|
Post by eastlondon388 on Nov 7, 2024 22:38:54 GMT
Come to think of it for Walthamstow is there any space in the bus station or will they possibly do what they did with the 212 and 275 back in 2000 and send them to St James Street. Question is which routes may need to be sent there? They already took the 97 and 357 out of the bus station to run it straight down hoe street Come to think of it, they could have taken advantage to extend either 257 or 215 up to St James st/ South Grove rather than have the SL2 out of the bus station Don’t really think that’s really necessary since there are enough routes along that corridor and those routes aren’t exactly full past Walthamstow Central. |
|
|
|
Post by MKAY315 on Nov 8, 2024 10:44:14 GMT
Come to think of it for Walthamstow is there any space in the bus station or will they possibly do what they did with the 212 and 275 back in 2000 and send them to St James Street. Question is which routes may need to be sent there? They already took the 97 and 357 out of the bus station to run it straight down hoe street Come to think of it, they could have taken advantage to extend either 257 or 215 up to St James st/ South Grove rather than have the SL2 out of the bus station It's a tricky one between those two routes. I think I did say the 257 at one point but now thinking about it I would have gone with the 215 as it's a LFR whereas the 257 is more of a HFR. |
|
|
|
Post by ! ALEED on Nov 8, 2024 21:53:49 GMT
Has it been confirmed which garage will run the SL4?
|
|
|
|
Post by yunus on Nov 8, 2024 21:59:05 GMT
Has it been confirmed which garage will run the SL4? DS, afaik. |
|
|
|
Post by ! ALEED on Nov 8, 2024 22:08:02 GMT
Has it been confirmed which garage will run the SL4? DS, afaik. Awesome, thanks! |
|
