Microfleets

[tooting395]

I thought it would be interesting talk about operators who sometimes order something unusual and why they might do it. I guess examples such as AVLs with London central and Plaxton residents at Arriva historically. SWs at Arriva.

Is it just a case of availability or is there a reason for these choices?
I guess with general decrease in diversity of bus types - perhaps it's a less relavant discussion now. I have always found these to be quite interesting.

[VPL630]

Sometimes it’s just what’s out there, for example Stagecoach ordered a Batch of Citaro’s for the 227 as there simply isn’t another bus that comes close to the versatility of the Citaro and they were amazing to drive.

I believe they also only ordered Gemini bodied Volvo B5’s for PD as they couldn’t get all the ADL E400H’s they wanted in time

[capitalomnibus]

Sept 15, 2023 8:59:28 GMT tooting395 said:

I thought it would be interesting talk about operators who sometimes order something unusual and why they might do it. I guess examples such as AVLs with London central and Plaxton residents at Arriva historically. SWs at Arriva.

Is it just a case of availability or is there a reason for these choices?
I guess with general decrease in diversity of bus types - perhaps it's a less relavant discussion now. I have always found these to be quite interesting.

Deliveries for early LFB's were very long. Operators were also trialling various bus types. Dennis managed to take a large slice of the double deck market in London where they never had a huge presence with the Dennis Dominator or Dennis Arrow. The Dennis Trident gained a lot of orders on the back of Volvo which had dominated London with the Olympian. The initial B7L got rejected by LT because of the rear overhang. Funny that 10 years later, TfL approved the then similar B5LH with an extreme rear overhang.
Stagecoach went to Dennis double decks after the fallout of Volvo moving production of out Scotland. Hence we got all the Dennis Tridents with Stagecoach.
Metroline seemed to delve into the TA/TAL whilst Metroline London Northern got the TP/TPL. In the end they standardised on the Plaxton President on either Trident or B7L chassis.
The AVL with Go_Ahead was their initial bus, they when got a few PDL Trident/President when standardised on the B7L/President and later Gemini2
The SW's was ordered on the back of the trial SW1 that was at [WN], although the main batch was not that successful at [GR] on the 340 and no more orders would come. The HW100 was also trialled but deemed not a success in the same way as SW's and none were to be ordered.

[ADH45258]

Sept 15, 2023 8:59:28 GMT tooting395 said:

I thought it would be interesting talk about operators who sometimes order something unusual and why they might do it. I guess examples such as AVLs with London central and Plaxton residents at Arriva historically. SWs at Arriva.

Is it just a case of availability or is there a reason for these choices?
I guess with general decrease in diversity of bus types - perhaps it's a less relavant discussion now. I have always found these to be quite interesting.

Regarding the SWs at Arriva, if hybrids weren't phased out soon after that batch, they may well have ordered more. I'm surprised though that they didn't just go for more Ts for the 340, following on from the 229/492 order?

I think we will continue to see some microfleets though with the switch to EVs. In some cases obviously like the 200 and 358 it is necessary, where the operator's standard type is not suitable for a particular route. But more generally due to availability with the manufacturers.

Stagecoach for example unexpectedly ordered Streetdecks for the 86 and 199. And they now seem to be standardising on BZLs for their electric DD fleet, with orders so far for the 58/277/D7, presumably the 242 too. Now if they had the intention to fully switch over to BZLs, until they were available it may have made more sense to just order some more BYDs for the 86/199 rather than introducing a microfleet (particularly with some already at TL on the 160) - but it's possibly ADL were already at full capacity for Go Ahead's large BYD orders.

We will also eventually get to the point where existing diesels/hybrids are no longer compliant for a new contract, with TFL's ambition for a fully electric fleet in 2030. You can't just keep awarding shorter-term contracts. So at that point, there will suddently be a need for a huge number of new electrics, and it's possible the main manufacturers (ADL/Optare/Volvo/Wright) won't be able to cover all of this in time, resulting in operators going for some more unexpected types.

[mkay315]

Sept 15, 2023 10:05:49 GMT capitalomnibus said:

Sept 15, 2023 8:59:28 GMT tooting395 said:

I thought it would be interesting talk about operators who sometimes order something unusual and why they might do it. I guess examples such as AVLs with London central and Plaxton residents at Arriva historically. SWs at Arriva.

Is it just a case of availability or is there a reason for these choices?
I guess with general decrease in diversity of bus types - perhaps it's a less relavant discussion now. I have always found these to be quite interesting.

Deliveries for early LFB's were very long. Operators were also trialling various bus types. Dennis managed to take a large slice of the double deck market in London where they never had a huge presence with the Dennis Dominator or Dennis Arrow. The Dennis Trident gained a lot of orders on the back of Volvo which had dominated London with the Olympian. The initial B7L got rejected by LT because of the rear overhang. Funny that 10 years later, TfL approved the then similar B5LH with an extreme rear overhang.
Stagecoach went to Dennis double decks after the fallout of Volvo moving production of out Scotland. Hence we got all the Dennis Tridents with Stagecoach.
Metroline seemed to delve into the TA/TAL whilst Metroline London Northern got the TP/TPL. In the end they standardised on the Plaxton President on either Trident or B7L chassis.
The AVL with Go_Ahead was their initial bus, they when got a few PDL Trident/President when standardised on the B7L/President and later Gemini2
The SW's was ordered on the back of the trial SW1 that was at [WN], although the main batch was not that successful at [GR] on the 340 and no more orders would come. The HW100 was also trialled but deemed not a success in the same way as SW's and none were to be ordered.

Adding onto the Dennis part. There was a lot of Dennis Lances. Some step free and others step entrance. Predominantly they were mostly around North West and West London. East London had some at BK in the 90s. It sucks they had to go up North due to an Arson attack otherwise I reckon they probably would have stayed a bit longer and retired in London

[vjaska]

Sept 15, 2023 10:05:49 GMT capitalomnibus said:

Sept 15, 2023 8:59:28 GMT tooting395 said:

I thought it would be interesting talk about operators who sometimes order something unusual and why they might do it. I guess examples such as AVLs with London central and Plaxton residents at Arriva historically. SWs at Arriva.

Is it just a case of availability or is there a reason for these choices?
I guess with general decrease in diversity of bus types - perhaps it's a less relavant discussion now. I have always found these to be quite interesting.

Deliveries for early LFB's were very long. Operators were also trialling various bus types. Dennis managed to take a large slice of the double deck market in London where they never had a huge presence with the Dennis Dominator or Dennis Arrow. The Dennis Trident gained a lot of orders on the back of Volvo which had dominated London with the Olympian. The initial B7L got rejected by LT because of the rear overhang. Funny that 10 years later, TfL approved the then similar B5LH with an extreme rear overhang.
Stagecoach went to Dennis double decks after the fallout of Volvo moving production of out Scotland. Hence we got all the Dennis Tridents with Stagecoach.
Metroline seemed to delve into the TA/TAL whilst Metroline London Northern got the TP/TPL. In the end they standardised on the Plaxton President on either Trident or B7L chassis.
The AVL with Go_Ahead was their initial bus, they when got a few PDL Trident/President when standardised on the B7L/President and later Gemini2
The SW's was ordered on the back of the trial SW1 that was at [WN], although the main batch was not that successful at [GR] on the 340 and no more orders would come. The HW100 was also trialled but deemed not a success in the same way as SW's and none were to be ordered.

Not quite right with Go-Ahead - whilst the AVL’s indeed came in at the beginning of the low floor era, it was quickly followed by a similar aged batch of PVL’s for BX with both on V reg plates. By the time X reg PDL1-13 arrived, there were already 200 odd PVL’s either on order or in service so it was already well established by then