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Post by greenboy on Mar 23, 2024 11:15:15 GMT
Not surprising that the lowest used routes tend to be those with the lowest PVR but the 404 seems reasonably well used from what I see of it and I thought the frequency increase a few years ago was more than justified and a short extension to Caterham Station would make the route more useful as previously mentioned. I'm not at all surprised about the R2 which makes the proposal to reroute the R1 to Biggin Hill at a higher frequency all the more puzzling. Probably the higher freq was why TFL realised after the consultation was launched that it wouldn't represent value for money. Indeed but I just couldn't understand why it was ever proposed, I'd say there was more of a case for reducing the R2 to hourly and restore a regular hourly service on the R8 with an extension to Melody Road. |
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Post by londonbuses on Mar 23, 2024 11:17:10 GMT
Probably the higher freq was why TFL realised after the consultation was launched that it wouldn't represent value for money. Indeed but I just couldn't understand why it was ever proposed, I'd say there was more of a case for reducing the R2 to hourly and restore a regular hourly service on the R8 with an extension to Melody Road. The R8's new contract has a PVR of 2, so presumably will be increased back to hourly. |
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Post by matthieu1221 on Mar 23, 2024 11:35:02 GMT
Why? The 176 is one of the few routes that departs central London packed. A glimpse of a southbound bus on Charing Cross Road and you would never think it has only served a couple stops for the passenger subscription to be that high. The area it serves around Dulwich has no direct train alternative to central London, so there is little wonder why the 176 is so well used throughout. The 176 is currently curtailed at Aldwych. The 176 has returned to TCR. The works on Charing Cross Road are done. |
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Post by matthieu1221 on Mar 23, 2024 11:42:18 GMT
I am incredibly unsurprised by the Saturday figure for the 9 though I did not think it'd be in the top 5! At the risk of sounding like a broken record, a frequency increase on Saturdays (and eventually Sundays) to 8 and 10 minutes would be very welcome. Yes and no. There is Still 20% capacity on average available at those times though. 6 x a bus capacity of 82 means 492 places available between Hammersmith and Aldwych Still leave room 98 passengers then it currently filled on average. The on average part is important though. There isn’t a uniform 80% load which could mean some buses are running at capacity meaning passengers can’t board. Though I wonder if 100% is actually feasible anyway given passengers’ general reluctance to move past the centre door etc even more so with the weekend crowd… I don’t think even in the previous set of stats released some time ago on FOIs covering the busiest overall weekdays/weekends included any route reached the magical number of 100%. And arguably a weekend crowd is of a different make up and wouldn’t like to stand if they had young children or were relatively elderly so reaching 100% before increasing frequencies is not ideal (on weekdays neither if I may add). |
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Post by southlondonbus on Mar 23, 2024 11:55:46 GMT
Yes and no. There is Still 20% capacity on average available at those times though. 6 x a bus capacity of 82 means 492 places available between Hammersmith and Aldwych Still leave room 98 passengers then it currently filled on average. The on average part is important though. There isn’t a uniform 80% load which could mean some buses are running at capacity meaning passengers can’t board. Though I wonder if 100% is actually feasible anyway given passengers’ general reluctance to move past the centre door etc even more so with the weekend crowd… I don’t think even in the previous set of stats released some time ago on FOIs covering the busiest overall weekdays/weekends included any route reached the magical number of 100%. And arguably a weekend crowd is of a different make up and wouldn’t like to stand if they had young children or were relatively elderly so reaching 100% before increasing frequencies is not ideal (on weekdays neitherf I may add). That is true but unfortunately tfl Will always work on the max capacity option. I'd be amazed if there was ever time every seat it taken on a bus. That was one advantage with the old routemaster where people boarded at the back then headed to the front seats for a good view. |
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Post by greenboy on Mar 23, 2024 12:03:38 GMT
The 176 is currently curtailed at Aldwych. The 176 has returned to TCR. The works on Charing Cross Road are done. Ok, still shown as Aldwych on LVF. |
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Post by londonbuses on Mar 23, 2024 12:07:55 GMT
Top 20 least used bus routes in London: 20: R2 - 199,268 (-) 19: 346 - 187,967 (+1) 18: 404 - 185,277 (+1) 17: 485 - 179,239 (+1) 16: 209 - 149,861 (-3) 15: 464 - 139,407 (-) 14: 467 - 130,456 (-) 13: 497 - 105,095 (+3) 12: 146 - 77,891 (-) 11: 375 - 70,563 (-) 10: U10 - 61,304 (-3) 9: R8 - 49,814 (-) 8: 327 - 48,612 (-) 7: R5/R10 - 41,795 (+1) 6: 549 - 36,429 (-1) 5: 347 - 29,996 (-) 4: 385 - 28,437 (-) 3: H3 - 20,564 (-) 2: 389 - 10,977 (-) 1: 399 - 8,381 (-) For anyone interested, the rest of the top 50 least used bus routes are: 50: E11 - 576,419 49: A10 - 568,804 48: B14 - 561,266 47: B13- 534,216 46: 315 - 512,901 45: U7 - 508,570 44: 481 - 505,713 43: 398 - 493,766 42: S4 - 488,858 41: 397 - 461,948 40: R3 - 453,694 39: W12 - 449,050 38: R9 - 433,182 37: 138 - 413,735 36: 246 - 391,222 35: K4 - 385,880 34: K5 - 362,965 33: H2 - 347,739 32: 456 - 338,952 31: 424 - 328,965 30: X68 - 328,173 29: 383 - 326,062 28: 362 - 311,539 27: R7 - 280,036 26: U9 - 277,420 25: 377 - 244,606 24: R6 - 232,784 23: 359 - 221,798 22: 434 - 218,127 21: 379 - 214,195 |
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Post by evergreenadam on Mar 23, 2024 12:50:08 GMT
Top 20 least used bus routes in London: 20: R2 - 199,268 (-) 19: 346 - 187,967 (+1) 18: 404 - 185,277 (+1) 17: 485 - 179,239 (+1) 16: 209 - 149,861 (-3) 15: 464 - 139,407 (-) 14: 467 - 130,456 (-) 13: 497 - 105,095 (+3) 12: 146 - 77,891 (-) 11: 375 - 70,563 (-) 10: U10 - 61,304 (-3) 9: R8 - 49,814 (-) 8: 327 - 48,612 (-) 7: R5/R10 - 41,795 (+1) 6: 549 - 36,429 (-1) 5: 347 - 29,996 (-) 4: 385 - 28,437 (-) 3: H3 - 20,564 (-) 2: 389 - 10,977 (-) 1: 399 - 8,381 (-) For anyone interested, the rest of the top 50 least used bus routes are: 50: E11 - 576,419 49: A10 - 568,804 48: B14 - 561,266 47: B13- 534,216 46: 315 - 512,901 45: U7 - 508,570 44: 481 - 505,713 43: 398 - 493,766 42: S4 - 488,858 41: 397 - 461,948 40: R3 - 453,694 39: W12 - 449,050 38: R9 - 433,182 37: 138 - 413,735 36: 246 - 391,222 35: K4 - 385,880 34: K5 - 362,965 33: H2 - 347,739 32: 456 - 338,952 31: 424 - 328,965 30: X68 - 328,173 29: 383 - 326,062 28: 362 - 311,539 27: R7 - 280,036 26: U9 - 277,420 25: 377 - 244,606 24: R6 - 232,784 23: 359 - 221,798 22: 434 - 218,127 21: 379 - 214,195 The X68 as was, appears in this list only because of the limited number of peak hour journeys. The other data released shows that the load factor on those journeys can average 80% at the busiest point in the busiest hour. |
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Post by matthieu1221 on Mar 23, 2024 18:15:23 GMT
The on average part is important though. There isn’t a uniform 80% load which could mean some buses are running at capacity meaning passengers can’t board. Though I wonder if 100% is actually feasible anyway given passengers’ general reluctance to move past the centre door etc even more so with the weekend crowd… I don’t think even in the previous set of stats released some time ago on FOIs covering the busiest overall weekdays/weekends included any route reached the magical number of 100%. And arguably a weekend crowd is of a different make up and wouldn’t like to stand if they had young children or were relatively elderly so reaching 100% before increasing frequencies is not ideal (on weekdays neitherf I may add). That is true but unfortunately tfl Will always work on the max capacity option. I'd be amazed if there was ever time every seat it taken on a bus. That was one advantage with the old routemaster where people boarded at the back then headed to the front seats for a good view. I don’t actually think they work on a ‘100% = only then a capacity increase is needed’ assumption neither. Wouldn’t surprise me for the threshold to be lower. The figure in HK is 75% over the busiest hour period and 90% over the busiest half hour so I’d assume the threshold to be somewhat similar in London. 100% definitely wouldn’t be used (and then again TfL works on a ‘corridor’ basis (despite routes going different ways past the common trunk so screw you if you want the full 24 past Trafalgar Square for example and not the emptier 29) so the 9 wouldn’t be considered alone). |
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Mar 31, 2024 0:15:48 GMT
And the data was extrapolated from November 2022. I am aware of the temporary truncation but it has no bearing on these stats. I'm not surprised that the 176 is busy in the evening as it serves theatreland in normal circumstances although the Penge end of the route is probably overbussed with the 197. I'm not sure why the northbound 176 couldn't be rerouted via Holborn to TCR during the Charing Cross Road roadworks? You'd be surprised at how well used the 176 is used between Dulwich and Penge post Covid. The two routes support each other and also support the 185 between Dulwich and Forest Hill. |
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Post by greenboy on Mar 31, 2024 6:39:48 GMT
I'm not surprised that the 176 is busy in the evening as it serves theatreland in normal circumstances although the Penge end of the route is probably overbussed with the 197. I'm not sure why the northbound 176 couldn't be rerouted via Holborn to TCR during the Charing Cross Road roadworks? You'd be surprised at how well used the 176 is used between Dulwich and Penge post Covid. The two routes support each other and also support the 185 between Dulwich and Forest Hill. I rarely see the 176 busy south of Forest Hill unless there's disruption on the railway. In fact I've wondered about rerouting it (or the 197) via Lower Sydenham which has no link to Dulwich, it would also give Lawrie Park Road a link to the main part of Sydenham. |
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Post by VMH2537 on May 9, 2024 9:56:30 GMT
TfL has published detailed data on usage for routes 125, 491, W8 and the W9. Specifically usage on different sections of the route during the AM Peak (07:00 to 10:00). FOI ref: FOI-0143-2425
Route 125 AM Peak towards Colindale
Winchmore Hill to Eversley Park Road: 12.7%
Eversley Park Road to Southgate: 26.6%
Southgate to Whetstone: 33.4%
Whetstone to North Finchley: 37.3%
North Finchley to Finchley Central: 30.6%
Finchley Central to Hendon, The Quadrant: 27.1%
Hendon, The Quadrant to Colindale: 17.85%
Route 125 AM Peak towards Winchmore Hill
Colindale to Hendon, The Quadrant: 33.2%
Hendon to Finchley Central: 37.8%
Finchley Central to North Finchley: 35.8%
North Finchley to Whetstone: 26.7%
Whetstone to Southgate: 23.3%
Southgate to Eversley Park Road: 10.8%
Eversley Park Road to Winchmore Hill: 5.6%
Route W9 AM Peak towards Southgate
Chase Farm Hospital to Enfield Town: 7.42%
Enfield Town to Grange Park: 14.5%
Grange Park to Highlands Village: 12%
Highlands Village to Winchmore Hill, The Green: 10.1%
Winchmore Hill, The Green to Southgate: 23%
Route W9 AM Peak towards Chase Farm Hospital
Southgate to Winchmore Hill, The Green: 12%
Winchmore Hill, The Green to Highlands Village: 12.1%
Highlands Village to Grange Park: 17.8%
Grange Park to Enfield Town: 23%
Enfield Town to Chase Farm Hospital: 16.7%
Route 491 AM Peak towards North Middlesex Hospital
Waltham Cross to Innova Park: 7%
Innova Park to Enfield Island Village: 6.6%
Enfield Island Village to Ponders End: 21.8%
Ponders End to Galliard Road: 23.5%
Galliard Road to Edmonton Green: 44%
Edmonton Green to North Middlesex Hospital: 40.2%
Route 491 AM Peak towards Waltham Cross
North Middlesex Hospital to Edmonton Green: 19:8%
Edmonton Green to Galliard Road: 29.6%
Galliard Road to Ponders End: 33.5%
Ponders End to Enfield Island Village: 26%
Enfield Island Village to Innova Park: 19.4%
Innova Park to Waltham Cross: 14.5%
Route W8 AM Peak towards Picketts Lock
Chase Farm Hospital to Lavender Hill: 7.7%
Lavender Hill to Enfield Town: 19.6%
Enfield Town to Edmonton Green: 17%
Edmonton Green to Picketts Lock: 6.7%
Route W8 AM Peak towards Chase Farm Hospital
Picketts Lock to Edmonton Green: 14.7%
Edmonton Green to Enfield Town: 33.9%
Enfield Town to Lavender Hill: 25.5%
Lavender Hill to Chase Farm Hospital: 21.8%
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Post by southlondonbus on May 9, 2024 10:29:38 GMT
What do the percentages mean?
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Post by southlondon413 on May 9, 2024 10:38:18 GMT
What do the percentages mean? I would assume they are the average used capacity. But it doesn’t really mean anything, how are TfL recording this data? Are they just using payments because that doesn’t indicate how many are actually on the bus or did they analyse cctv records over a set period to say x% of capacity was used over this period? It’s very meaningless data without context on how it was collected. |
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Post by evergreenadam on May 9, 2024 10:45:44 GMT
That’s a lot of spare capacity on the W8 given it operates x8mins in the peaks. If those figures are accurate I am surprised it has not yet been reduced in frequency.
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