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Post by dashing0ne on Oct 21, 2021 19:23:29 GMT
Wow, another one I got right which is unusual for me lol (322) though thought the 433 would go Optare too for a bulk order. First Optares in my area since strays of DOE54 onto the 118 plus loaned in DOE’s to AL due to contaminated fuel on regular AL buses. This is also what I predicted, though is surprising to see Abellio move from a fully ADL fleet to now ordering from Caetano and Optare. It seems Abellio's strategy is likely to eventually have a mostly Caetano electric fleet, but ordering elsewhere until more vehicle types are available (DDs and shorter SDs). Though I thought it might have made more sense to limit orders to just one other manufacturer for simplification, plus possibly discounts on larger orders. This could have involved ordering 9.7m BYDs for the 322, or Metrodeckers for the 63/U5. Optares might be more logical as I think they use the same chargers as Caetano. Note that the 111's order is still unannounced, though is most likely more BYDs following from the U5 batch, unless there are any range issues with the 111's route length? Also with the 322's order, what is the reason for the shorter Metrocity being introduced, when the Solo SR is already available at a similar length? Does anyone know why Abellio made such a change of strategy?
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Post by DT 11 on Oct 21, 2021 19:28:22 GMT
This is also what I predicted, though is surprising to see Abellio move from a fully ADL fleet to now ordering from Caetano and Optare. It seems Abellio's strategy is likely to eventually have a mostly Caetano electric fleet, but ordering elsewhere until more vehicle types are available (DDs and shorter SDs). Though I thought it might have made more sense to limit orders to just one other manufacturer for simplification, plus possibly discounts on larger orders. This could have involved ordering 9.7m BYDs for the 322, or Metrodeckers for the 63/U5. Optares might be more logical as I think they use the same chargers as Caetano. Note that the 111's order is still unannounced, though is most likely more BYDs following from the U5 batch, unless there are any range issues with the 111's route length? Also with the 322's order, what is the reason for the shorter Metrocity being introduced, when the Solo SR is already available at a similar length? Does anyone know why Abellio made such a change of strategy? That is a very unusual question.
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Post by dashing0ne on Oct 21, 2021 20:01:02 GMT
Does anyone know why Abellio made such a change of strategy? That is a very unusual question. In terms of stopping ADL Monopoly.
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Post by rj131 on Oct 21, 2021 20:06:48 GMT
That is a very unusual question. In terms of stopping ADL Monopoly. Well quite simply Caetano must have offered them better. Even if Abellio had ordered exclusively with ADL over the years, if for whatever reason they decided not to offer Abellio good rates anymore and Caetano decided to try and get a share of the London market and offering brilliant deals on their vehicles to tap into it, Abellio have every right to take their business elsewhere!
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Post by ADH45258 on Oct 21, 2021 20:19:37 GMT
This is also what I predicted, though is surprising to see Abellio move from a fully ADL fleet to now ordering from Caetano and Optare. It seems Abellio's strategy is likely to eventually have a mostly Caetano electric fleet, but ordering elsewhere until more vehicle types are available (DDs and shorter SDs). Though I thought it might have made more sense to limit orders to just one other manufacturer for simplification, plus possibly discounts on larger orders. This could have involved ordering 9.7m BYDs for the 322, or Metrodeckers for the 63/U5. Optares might be more logical as I think they use the same chargers as Caetano. Note that the 111's order is still unannounced, though is most likely more BYDs following from the U5 batch, unless there are any range issues with the 111's route length? Also with the 322's order, what is the reason for the shorter Metrocity being introduced, when the Solo SR is already available at a similar length? Ranges for electric DD's: BYD/ADL - Up to 160 miles Switch - Up to 190 miles Wrightbus - Up to 200 miles Equipmake/Beulas - 150 to 250 miles Caetano and Volvo - No information Equipmake has repeatedly mentioned that the Jewel E has the best range of any electric DD in the world, so could the 111 get Jewel E's? I'm not sure Abellio would go for a fourth manufacturer for EVs. BYDs would be most logical following the 63/U5, though I could possibly see Metrodeckers ordered for the slightly higher range.
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Post by ADH45258 on Oct 21, 2021 20:21:14 GMT
Most operators prefer door forward single decks, which the Metrocity is and the Solo isn't. 9.7m buses are not cleared for the 322 which has been confirmed before, so no chance of those being ordered. The Metrocity EV is 8.74m long and 2.47m wide The shorter Solo EV (7.87m, 8.57m, 9.26m) are only slimline 2.34m wide, the shortest normal width Solo EV is 9.96m which is too long Need to look at both length and width to know why Solo EV not chosen Was the Solo SR previously used on the 404 a slimline version then? And similarly for the older Solos, such as on the W5, unless the length/width options were different before the SR? I previously thought it was just the H2/H3 & W12 batches that had the reduced width.
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Post by BE37054 (quoll662) on Oct 21, 2021 20:35:23 GMT
Ranges for electric DD's: BYD/ADL - Up to 160 miles Switch - Up to 190 miles Wrightbus - Up to 200 miles Equipmake/Beulas - 150 to 250 miles Caetano and Volvo - No information Equipmake has repeatedly mentioned that the Jewel E has the best range of any electric DD in the world, so could the 111 get Jewel E's? I'm not sure Abellio would go for a fourth manufacturer for EVs. BYDs would be most logical following the 63/U5, though I could possibly see Metrodeckers ordered for the slightly higher range. I see. Probably wishful thinking on my part. Will agree with you on the Metrodecker front though.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 21, 2021 21:50:19 GMT
The Metrocity EV is 8.74m long and 2.47m wide The shorter Solo EV (7.87m, 8.57m, 9.26m) are only slimline 2.34m wide, the shortest normal width Solo EV is 9.96m which is too long Need to look at both length and width to know why Solo EV not chosen Was the Solo SR previously used on the 404 a slimline version then? And similarly for the older Solos, such as on the W5, unless the length/width options were different before the SR? I previously thought it was just the H2/H3 & W12 batches that had the reduced width. Nope, the 404 had a standard Solo SR
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Post by southlondonbus on Oct 21, 2021 22:01:13 GMT
Victoria isn't in the Central London ULEZ? The Ring Road is the border of the ULEZ and the ring road passes through Victoria so anything that doesn't cross the ring road (Vauxhall Bridge Road, Victoria one way system, etc) doesn't go in the zone. The 170 doesn't cross the one way system at Victoria and the 414 runs along the ring road between Hyde Park Corner & Marble Arch but doesn't go in past the boundary line. The 44 also uses E400s from time to time aswell.
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Post by ADH45258 on Oct 21, 2021 23:29:54 GMT
Was the Solo SR previously used on the 404 a slimline version then? And similarly for the older Solos, such as on the W5, unless the length/width options were different before the SR? I previously thought it was just the H2/H3 & W12 batches that had the reduced width. Nope, the 404 had a standard Solo SR I'm assuming the electric Solo is offered at different lengths to the diesel version? As the 404's vehicle was around 9m but standard width.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 22, 2021 0:01:45 GMT
Nope, the 404 had a standard Solo SR I'm assuming the electric Solo is offered at different lengths to the diesel version? As the 404's vehicle was around 9m but standard width. The Optare Solo SR specs on the Switch website don't seem to suggest that the electric model has different lengths so presumably any of the four lengths (7.9m Slimline only, 8.5m Slimline only, 9.2m Standard or Slimline & 9.9m Standard or Slimline) can be incorporated into an electric model. The 404's model was a 9.0m example
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Post by snowman on Oct 22, 2021 4:54:26 GMT
I'm assuming the electric Solo is offered at different lengths to the diesel version? As the 404's vehicle was around 9m but standard width. The Optare Solo SR specs on the Switch website don't seem to suggest that the electric model has different lengths so presumably any of the four lengths (7.9m Slimline only, 8.5m Slimline only, 9.2m Standard or Slimline & 9.9m Standard or Slimline) can be incorporated into an electric model. The 404's model was a 9.0m example The range has been changed since the Solo SR bus on 404 was built The Metrocity is now the standard width bus, and the Solo is mainly a slim bus for rural routes and areas with narrow streets. The 9.9m standard width Solo is an anomaly because some Operators still want a wheel forward version and this allows straight replacement of older buses
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Post by snowman on Oct 22, 2021 5:09:15 GMT
Reported elsewhere Route 322 will be getting 11 short Metrocities 433 gets more Caetano e-city gold Oooooh interesting. Abellio are diverting away gradually from the all-ADL fleet. The 8.74m Metrocity EV is only electric bus currently available that can meet the TfL 45 passenger spec ADL don’t make electric version shorter than 9.7m Both BYD and Solaris also make an 8.7m electric bus, but they are not TfL spec. So for time being, if a route cannot accommodate anything longer than about 9m then it will get Metrocity EV (although not talking big volumes, generally under 20 buses per year for TfL tender awards need this size)
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Post by southlondonbus on Oct 22, 2021 7:36:52 GMT
Oooooh interesting. Abellio are diverting away gradually from the all-ADL fleet. The 8.74m Metrocity EV is only electric bus currently available that can meet the TfL 45 passenger spec ADL don’t make electric version shorter than 9.7m Both BYD and Solaris also make an 8.7m electric bus, but they are not TfL spec. So for time being, if a route cannot accommodate anything longer than about 9m then it will get Metrocity EV (although not talking big volumes, generally under 20 buses per year for TfL tender awards need this size) Probably the only other use for 9m would be the S2 if longer then 9m can't get around the Sutton to St Helier Station section (the Sutton to Epsom section we know can use longer as the 470 does). Same with the 439. Not if it would need then to be as small as 9m long.
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Post by redexpress on Oct 22, 2021 7:56:27 GMT
In terms of stopping ADL Monopoly. Well quite simply Caetano must have offered them better. Even if Abellio had ordered exclusively with ADL over the years, if for whatever reason they decided not to offer Abellio good rates anymore and Caetano decided to try and get a share of the London market and offering brilliant deals on their vehicles to tap into it, Abellio have every right to take their business elsewhere! Abellio's Caetano order didn't exactly come out of the blue. There is a shareholder link between the two, namely Mitsui who own a minority share of Caetano. As far as I can tell Mitsui don't exactly own any part of Abellio but they do collaborate with Abellio on rail franchises. According to press reports at the time, the Mitsui link is what led to Caetano entering the picture for Abellio.
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