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Post by greenboy on Nov 9, 2021 19:20:05 GMT
It's the same at Canning Town Bus Station with the 5,115,300 and 330 all heading towards Plaistow along the Barking Road. Trust me the locals just want to get home they don't care if a bus is electric, hybrid or diesel let alone what the interior looks like. But the tube-to-home commuters who pile on the bus every day to travel a few stops up the road are not the people this is aimed at. It's aimed at the people who could be persuaded to switch from car to bus, or to make additional discretionary journeys by bus. And I have no argument with anyone who rightly points out that this has to go hand-in-hand with measures to improve reliability, punctuality and journey speeds, some of which are in the gift of the bus operators themselves, others are matters of TfL oversight and yet more are dependent on the highway authorities managing the roads on which the services run. A third aspect, which seems to have been overlooked, is the the improved bus service must be backed up with clear, attractive and accurate roadside information at stops and in shelters, and publicity, and well as user-friendly online information. I hope this aspect will be an integral part of the route 63 trial. You've summed it up very well, many people see buses as some sort of social service for those who don't drive. If TfL want to get people out of cars and onto buses then that image needs to change.
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Post by YX10FFN on Nov 9, 2021 19:42:17 GMT
But the tube-to-home commuters who pile on the bus every day to travel a few stops up the road are not the people this is aimed at. It's aimed at the people who could be persuaded to switch from car to bus, or to make additional discretionary journeys by bus. And I have no argument with anyone who rightly points out that this has to go hand-in-hand with measures to improve reliability, punctuality and journey speeds, some of which are in the gift of the bus operators themselves, others are matters of TfL oversight and yet more are dependent on the highway authorities managing the roads on which the services run. A third aspect, which seems to have been overlooked, is the the improved bus service must be backed up with clear, attractive and accurate roadside information at stops and in shelters, and publicity, and well as user-friendly online information. I hope this aspect will be an integral part of the route 63 trial. You've summed it up very well, many people see buses as some sort of social service for those who don't drive. If TfL want to get people out of cars and onto buses then that image needs to change. Seen a lot of people on here who've justified cuts or criticised certain new route ideas because they go through wealthy areas with the perceived notion that rich people would never take the bus. Why not try and make it more attractive so they might consider it? I'm sure TFL have a marketing department, they should use it to bring in new customers and provide more attractive services. Similar thing is going on in some of the places I have family in in America (although the problem is admittedly much worse), the idea that public transport is for poor people and instead prioritise road improvements for the wealthy areas, then act shocked when traffic worsens. Basic public transport notion: if you build it they will come.
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Post by WH241 on Nov 9, 2021 20:08:41 GMT
It's the same at Canning Town Bus Station with the 5,115,300 and 330 all heading towards Plaistow along the Barking Road. Trust me the locals just want to get home they don't care if a bus is electric, hybrid or diesel let alone what the interior looks like. But the tube-to-home commuters who pile on the bus every day to travel a few stops up the road are not the people this is aimed at. It's aimed at the people who could be persuaded to switch from car to bus, or to make additional discretionary journeys by bus. And I have no argument with anyone who rightly points out that this has to go hand-in-hand with measures to improve reliability, punctuality and journey speeds, some of which are in the gift of the bus operators themselves, others are matters of TfL oversight and yet more are dependent on the highway authorities managing the roads on which the services run. A third aspect, which seems to have been overlooked, is the the improved bus service must be backed up with clear, attractive and accurate roadside information at stops and in shelters, and publicity, and well as user-friendly online information. I hope this aspect will be an integral part of the route 63 trial. I do take onboard what you saying but its not just bus to commuters corridors where this happens. There are other corridors for example the Romford Road corridor where you have 3 routes duplicating 25,86 and 425. Again as I said people don't give a dam about the bus as long as it turns up and makes good progress!
Most journeys in Inner London are short journeys. Maybe the focus on these enhancements should be on the longer routes in outer London where their is more car owners!
There is an interesting article by Roger French on this very subject in Buses magazine this month. His main focus is on reliability and bus stops not so much bus branding etc....
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Post by greenboy on Nov 10, 2021 10:45:13 GMT
You've summed it up very well, many people see buses as some sort of social service for those who don't drive. If TfL want to get people out of cars and onto buses then that image needs to change. Seen a lot of people on here who've justified cuts or criticised certain new route ideas because they go through wealthy areas with the perceived notion that rich people would never take the bus. Why not try and make it more attractive so they might consider it? I'm sure TFL have a marketing department, they should use it to bring in new customers and provide more attractive services. Similar thing is going on in some of the places I have family in in America (although the problem is admittedly much worse), the idea that public transport is for poor people and instead prioritise road improvements for the wealthy areas, then act shocked when traffic worsens. Basic public transport notion: if you build it they will come. Hopefully the new Abellio single deckers for the 433 will have a similar interior to the 63 batch, might change some Selsdon residents view of buses.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Nov 10, 2021 13:23:12 GMT
Seen a lot of people on here who've justified cuts or criticised certain new route ideas because they go through wealthy areas with the perceived notion that rich people would never take the bus. Why not try and make it more attractive so they might consider it? I'm sure TFL have a marketing department, they should use it to bring in new customers and provide more attractive services. Similar thing is going on in some of the places I have family in in America (although the problem is admittedly much worse), the idea that public transport is for poor people and instead prioritise road improvements for the wealthy areas, then act shocked when traffic worsens. Basic public transport notion: if you build it they will come. Hopefully the new Abellio single deckers for the 433 will have a similar interior to the 63 batch, might change some Selsdon residents view of buses. I doubt that, this is part of a larger trial and is funded by TfL as opposed to Abellip themselves. The Stagecoach, RATP and Go Ahead equivalents have the standard interior so I don't see why the 433s would have a special interior.
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Post by portman227 on Nov 10, 2021 18:31:06 GMT
Just saw one of the BYD electrics for the 63 parked in WL, surprisingly these have destination blinds and route number blinds with LEDS at the back, which is a first in TFL buses. These I believe are the first to have them like this. Also the destination blinds at the back are very small and bright, not sure how people would read them for far away
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Post by wirewiper on Nov 10, 2021 18:38:42 GMT
Just saw one of the BYD electrics for the 63 parked in WL, surprisingly these have destination blinds and route number blinds with LEDS at the back, which is a first in TFL buses. These I believe are the first to have them like this. Also the destination blinds at the back are very small and bright, not sure how people would read them for far away A first for TfL maybe; but even down here in Devon, where we park the buses in the cowshed next to the mangelwurzels, we've had them for a few years!
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Post by SILENCED on Nov 10, 2021 18:43:37 GMT
Just saw one of the BYD electrics for the 63 parked in WL, surprisingly these have destination blinds and route number blinds with LEDS at the back, which is a first in TFL buses. These I believe are the first to have them like this. Also the destination blinds at the back are very small and bright, not sure how people would read them for far away Part of the future bus spec.
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Post by ServerKing on Nov 10, 2021 18:53:51 GMT
But the tube-to-home commuters who pile on the bus every day to travel a few stops up the road are not the people this is aimed at. It's aimed at the people who could be persuaded to switch from car to bus, or to make additional discretionary journeys by bus. And I have no argument with anyone who rightly points out that this has to go hand-in-hand with measures to improve reliability, punctuality and journey speeds, some of which are in the gift of the bus operators themselves, others are matters of TfL oversight and yet more are dependent on the highway authorities managing the roads on which the services run. A third aspect, which seems to have been overlooked, is the the improved bus service must be backed up with clear, attractive and accurate roadside information at stops and in shelters, and publicity, and well as user-friendly online information. I hope this aspect will be an integral part of the route 63 trial. You've summed it up very well, many people see buses as some sort of social service for those who don't drive. If TfL want to get people out of cars and onto buses then that image needs to change. I feel a bit bad using Abellio thread space to explain why buses are a lower form of transport, and out of all operators, Abellio has the nicest interiors USB charging is nice, rock hard TfL seats ain't at least outside London, bus operators make more of an effort. TfL's spread too thin, like too much margarine over too much toast, before Lockdown, too many modes of transport that it oversees, but didn't see previous bus users switch to Uber and minicabs, a brand new Kia has better seats and a cleaner interior than any bus, and is twice as fast... plus most work from home and have need of the bus (most would have got a train or tube in from the outskirts). When banned from driving I used the buses, but mostly short trips to a train station. As buses have gotten slower, there's less appeal to get one as "thrash" days have gone, especially in 20 Zone London
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Post by portman227 on Nov 10, 2021 19:19:57 GMT
Just saw one of the BYD electrics for the 63 parked in WL, surprisingly these have destination blinds and route number blinds with LEDS at the back, which is a first in TFL buses. These I believe are the first to have them like this. Also the destination blinds at the back are very small and bright, not sure how people would read them for far away A first for TfL maybe; but even down here in Devon, where we park the buses in the cowshed next to the mangelwurzels, we've had them for a few years! It’s a nice touch to TFL, I think they have been a bit late to this with the whole LED situation
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Post by greenboy on Nov 10, 2021 19:21:13 GMT
Just saw one of the BYD electrics for the 63 parked in WL, surprisingly these have destination blinds and route number blinds with LEDS at the back, which is a first in TFL buses. These I believe are the first to have them like this. Also the destination blinds at the back are very small and bright, not sure how people would read them for far away A first for TfL maybe; but even down here in Devon, where we park the buses in the cowshed next to the mangelwurzels, we've had them for a few years! Brighton & Hove buses have had them for 10-15 years....... but TfL have only just caught onto the idea😂
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Post by greenboy on Nov 10, 2021 19:29:53 GMT
You've summed it up very well, many people see buses as some sort of social service for those who don't drive. If TfL want to get people out of cars and onto buses then that image needs to change. I feel a bit bad using Abellio thread space to explain why buses are a lower form of transport, and out of all operators, Abellio has the nicest interiors USB charging is nice, rock hard TfL seats ain't at least outside London, bus operators make more of an effort. TfL's spread too thin, like too much margarine over too much toast, before Lockdown, too many modes of transport that it oversees, but didn't see previous bus users switch to Uber and minicabs, a brand new Kia has better seats and a cleaner interior than any bus, and is twice as fast... plus most work from home and have need of the bus (most would have got a train or tube in from the outskirts). When banned from driving I used the buses, but mostly short trips to a train station. As buses have gotten slower, there's less appeal to get one as "thrash" days have gone, especially in 20 Zone London Yes none of this is the fault of Abellio......... I think for far too long TfL have pretty much had a monopoly but now there is Uber etc and people have a choice and can get where they want to go far quicker and in far greater comfort and it doesn't cost a great deal more.
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Post by BE37054 (quoll662) on Nov 10, 2021 19:50:31 GMT
I feel a bit bad using Abellio thread space to explain why buses are a lower form of transport, and out of all operators, Abellio has the nicest interiors :) USB charging is nice, rock hard TfL seats ain't :P at least outside London, bus operators make more of an effort. TfL's spread too thin, like too much margarine over too much toast, before Lockdown, too many modes of transport that it oversees, but didn't see previous bus users switch to Uber and minicabs, a brand new Kia has better seats and a cleaner interior than any bus, and is twice as fast... plus most work from home and have need of the bus (most would have got a train or tube in from the outskirts). When banned from driving I used the buses, but mostly short trips to a train station. As buses have gotten slower, there's less appeal to get one as "thrash" days have gone, especially in 20 Zone London :P Yes none of this is the fault of Abellio......... I think for far too long TfL have pretty much had a monopoly but now there is Uber etc and people have a choice and can get where they want to go far quicker and in far greater comfort and it doesn't cost a great deal more. I know I'm probably biased but I way prefer buses. Couldn't travel more than 20 mins in a car or taxi, I have this weird thing where I get sick in small vehicles, but in bigger vehicles I'm fine. So even if my local route went from 6bph to 0.5 bph I'd still not consider using a car or uber. Being selfish, I wish bench seats were reinstated so fewer people would use the bus and I'd have it all to myself! Just me!
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Post by vjaska on Nov 10, 2021 20:19:18 GMT
A first for TfL maybe; but even down here in Devon, where we park the buses in the cowshed next to the mangelwurzels, we've had them for a few years! It’s a nice touch to TFL, I think they have been a bit late to this with the whole LED situation On the contrary, I think they’ve entered at the right time - LED blinds for many years were bigged up more than they actually functioned and it’s only in recent years that LED blinds have become more clearer, better layouts and better reliability. TfL made the right call going from manual to power blinds and they’ve seemingly judged this one correctly too
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Post by LondonNorthern on Nov 10, 2021 20:41:02 GMT
Yes none of this is the fault of Abellio......... I think for far too long TfL have pretty much had a monopoly but now there is Uber etc and people have a choice and can get where they want to go far quicker and in far greater comfort and it doesn't cost a great deal more. I know I'm probably biased but I way prefer buses. Couldn't travel more than 20 mins in a car or taxi, I have this weird thing where I get sick in small vehicles, but in bigger vehicles I'm fine. So even if my local route went from 6bph to 0.5 bph I'd still not consider using a car or uber. Being selfish, I wish bench seats were reinstated so fewer people would use the bus and I'd have it all to myself! Just me! Another thing I've noticed is I tend to enjoy my local route more than other routes that I might travel on. Something just feels so refreshing about the passenger experience, perhaps a feeling of nostalgia.
I don't use UBER a lot as such, for me I tend to drive instead and that is because I don't like the feeling of sitting in someone else's car.
Bench seats a lot of them are used on provincial (specially school service) routes outside London, and are especially used on Step Entrance Dublin Bus Olympians. I do not like the idea of them at all but coming from an operators point of view you can squeeze more people on them and therefore can perhaps reduce the PVR a tad bit. However, this is probably offset by the fact there is no wheelchair bay therefore no space downstairs for passengers to stand if all seats have been taken. I wonder whether the idea of Urban 90s especially on shorter Darts/E200s/even some Solos (I rode one when I used the Mousehole a few years back with Urban 90 seats) was to perhaps fit more seats in instead of fitting thick seat moquettes in therefore increasing seating capacity.
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