Spider Maps

[buspete]

I have noticed missing Spider maps which isn’t helpful for example, Uxbridge or Thamesmead? 

Have TFL stopped compiling these?

[ZiyQ]

Unfortunately, as of now, TFL has taken a stance of "no bus spider maps unless we feel it is necessary" for many areas, leaving many key interchanges (such as Uxbridge) as you mentioned without any up-to-date spider maps, as they are bus spider maps are now deemed to be too low used by passengers. Although it is quite unfortunate, this is probably due to cost-cutting on TFL's end from their recent dire financial state after Covid (please correct me if I'm wrong). Swansea University Computer Society have kept a useful archive for bus maps, though it's unfortunate that TFL don't produce a lot of spider maps now www.sucs.org/~cmckenna/maps/busspider/2014-15/uxbridge.pdf You could use this link for the Uxbridge (and other areas' bus maps).

[abellion]

Feb 23, 2024 0:27:59 GMT buspete said:

I have noticed missing Spider maps which isn’t helpful for example, Uxbridge or Thamesmead? 

Have TFL stopped compiling these?

You can try searching “Buses from ____ PDF” online which will bring up relevant results. Unfortunately a lot of maps are either outdated or the rubbish new lazy style.

[routew15]

Feb 23, 2024 0:27:59 GMT buspete said:

I have noticed missing Spider maps which isn’t helpful for example, Uxbridge or Thamesmead? 

Have TFL stopped compiling these?

Diamond Geezer actually blogged about this problem a few years ago link

[Deleted]

I find the modern spider maps unusable. They only show small parts of the routes from the location and then have an arrow telling you where it ends and misses out key parts of the route. For example a map from my local area will show the 321 going as far as New Eltham Station which is about a mile and a half away, and then there will be an arrow that says continues to New Cross, Sainsbury’s. But it misses out all of Eltham, Lee Green, Lewisham & St John’s. Or the 51 will show as going far as Blackfen, and it’ll say continues to Woolwich, Town Centre. But misses out all of Welling & Plumstead Common. How is that of any use to anyone?

Plus there is indeed many missing maps from the TFL website. For example there’s a Bromley North one but nothing for Bromley South. There’s one for Croydon Town Centre and for West Croydon but sod all for East Croydon or South Croydon. It’s all half arsed and they were much more consistent and of a higher quality in the late 2000s/early 2010s.

[matthieu1221]

Feb 23, 2024 13:59:40 GMT @dillon95 said:

I find the modern spider maps unusable. They only show small parts of the routes from the location and then have an arrow telling you where it ends and misses out key parts of the route. For example a map from my local area will show the 321 going as far as New Eltham Station which is about a mile and a half away, and then there will be an arrow that says continues to New Cross, Sainsbury’s. But it misses out all of Eltham, Lee Green, Lewisham & St John’s. Or the 51 will show as going far as Blackfen, and it’ll say continues to Woolwich, Town Centre. But misses out all of Welling & Plumstead Common. How is that of any use to anyone?

Plus there is indeed many missing maps from the TFL website. For example there’s a Bromley North one but nothing for Bromley South. There’s one for Croydon Town Centre and for West Croydon but sod all for East Croydon or South Croydon. It’s all half arsed and they were much more consistent and of a higher quality in the late 2000s/early 2010s.

Completely agree. The old design was also far better in showing all stops on routes within a certain radius of the current location in addition to not just cutting off any useful information beyond a certain distance.

The rationale though is that passengers only travel short distances hence why it wasn’t necessary. Didn’t need changing for that in my opinion (and why remove the detail of having every stop in the near radius then?)

[Deleted]

Feb 23, 2024 14:34:28 GMT matthieu1221 said:

Feb 23, 2024 13:59:40 GMT @dillon95 said:

I find the modern spider maps unusable. They only show small parts of the routes from the location and then have an arrow telling you where it ends and misses out key parts of the route. For example a map from my local area will show the 321 going as far as New Eltham Station which is about a mile and a half away, and then there will be an arrow that says continues to New Cross, Sainsbury’s. But it misses out all of Eltham, Lee Green, Lewisham & St John’s. Or the 51 will show as going far as Blackfen, and it’ll say continues to Woolwich, Town Centre. But misses out all of Welling & Plumstead Common. How is that of any use to anyone?

Plus there is indeed many missing maps from the TFL website. For example there’s a Bromley North one but nothing for Bromley South. There’s one for Croydon Town Centre and for West Croydon but sod all for East Croydon or South Croydon. It’s all half arsed and they were much more consistent and of a higher quality in the late 2000s/early 2010s.

Completely agree. The old design was also far better in showing all stops on routes within a certain radius of the current location in addition to not just cutting off any useful information beyond a certain distance.

The rationale though is that passengers only travel short distances hence why it wasn’t necessary. Didn’t need changing for that in my opinion (and why remove the detail of having every stop in the near radius then?)

I don’t know how they can say people only use buses for a few stops. Of course some people do, but some people also use London buses for longer routes and I’m sure there’s some people that even use the route from start to finish. When people only tap in on a bus and don’t tap out when they get off, where are they getting this data from? It’s absolute rubbish. According to the maps I’m only supposed to use a bus to travel for a mile and a half and barely even leave my town. The old maps were perfectly fine. Showing every stop within a 1.5 to 2 mile or so radius and then the key stops I.E stations, town centres/high streets, hospitals, important landmarks and key road junctions.

[vjaska]

Feb 23, 2024 14:34:28 GMT matthieu1221 said:

Feb 23, 2024 13:59:40 GMT @dillon95 said:

I find the modern spider maps unusable. They only show small parts of the routes from the location and then have an arrow telling you where it ends and misses out key parts of the route. For example a map from my local area will show the 321 going as far as New Eltham Station which is about a mile and a half away, and then there will be an arrow that says continues to New Cross, Sainsbury’s. But it misses out all of Eltham, Lee Green, Lewisham & St John’s. Or the 51 will show as going far as Blackfen, and it’ll say continues to Woolwich, Town Centre. But misses out all of Welling & Plumstead Common. How is that of any use to anyone?

Plus there is indeed many missing maps from the TFL website. For example there’s a Bromley North one but nothing for Bromley South. There’s one for Croydon Town Centre and for West Croydon but sod all for East Croydon or South Croydon. It’s all half arsed and they were much more consistent and of a higher quality in the late 2000s/early 2010s.

Completely agree. The old design was also far better in showing all stops on routes within a certain radius of the current location in addition to not just cutting off any useful information beyond a certain distance.

The rationale though is that passengers only travel short distances hence why it wasn’t necessary. Didn’t need changing for that in my opinion (and why remove the detail of having every stop in the near radius then?)

Yes, they were useful particularly for the extended radius of stops shown which was 1 and half miles from the stop the map was displayed at

[Green Kitten]

They must have been quite costly and time consuming to change constantly, especially with all the recent bus changes (imagine the nuttiness of the central London consultation - that would have impacted so many maps). It is a shame as I love looking at them when waiting for a bus no matter where. The generic 'where to find your bus' is not nearly as interesting.

I agree with Dillon's assessment. The original maps were the best, where all stops within a radius of 1½ miles of the bus stop was shown and full routes were displayed. They tried to replace them with woeful new designs all included as part of the Barkingside and Hayes bus branding exercise, where each route was displayed as a single strand regardless of if they shared the same destination.

The current ones aren't great either, I don't see why you shouldn't display the entire route, surely it would make it easier to use. It is a loss of information without any benefit to those who don't travel too far on the bus. I find them harder to follow and am not a fan of the random markers without any stop names. I assume they are easier to update.

[Deleted]

Feb 23, 2024 15:10:58 GMT Green Kitten said:

They must have been quite costly and time consuming to change constantly, especially with all the recent bus changes (imagine the nuttiness of the central London consultation - that would have impacted so many maps). It is a shame as I love looking at them when waiting for a bus no matter where. The generic 'where to find your bus' is not nearly as interesting.

I agree with Dillon's assessment. The original maps were the best, where all stops within a radius of 1½ miles of the bus stop was shown and full routes were displayed. They tried to replace them with woeful new designs all included as part of the Barkingside and Hayes bus branding exercise, where each route was displayed as a single strand regardless of if they shared the same destination.

The current ones aren't great either, I don't see why you shouldn't display the entire route, surely it would make it easier to use. It is a loss of information without any benefit to those who don't travel too far on the bus. I find them harder to follow and am not a fan of the random markers without any stop names. I assume they are easier to update.

Ah yes I forgot all about the geographically incorrect and ‘dumbed down’ messes they used for a while before the current versions. They were hideous.

If money was an issue I’d literally design geographically correct, up to date maps with all the relevant bus stop information for them for free in my spare time and probably enjoy doing so. They’d be a lot better than their recent so called professional efforts.

[buspete]

I do agree the old Spider Map were better and urge TfL to produce them again. I wouldn’t think these would cost TFL to much to produce and update. It is a great resource and easy to read, especially if they’re going on bus stops anyway. Not everything need to be internet based where people get their answers just by entering where they want to commence and to where they want go to and the internet works it out for you. I like to look at something more tangible.

A good example of this is the actual timetable, where I like to look up my trains, as if I use National Rail Journey Planner if gives me 10 minutes to change at Croydon, Clapham Junction or London Bridge. I don’t need 10 minutes, where as I know what I’m doing I can change in 3 minutes.

So sometimes old school information is preferable.

[Deleted]

Feb 24, 2024 17:11:24 GMT buspete said:

I do agree the old Spider Map were better and urge TfL to produce them again. I wouldn’t think these would cost TFL to much to produce and update. It is a great resource and easy to read, especially if they’re going on bus stops anyway. Not everything need to be internet based where people get their answers just by entering where they want to commence and to where they want go to and the internet works it out for you. I like to look at something more tangible.

A good example of this is the actual timetable, where I like to look up my trains, as if I use National Rail Journey Planner if gives me 10 minutes to change at Croydon, Clapham Junction or London Bridge. I don’t need 10 minutes, where as I know what I’m doing I can change in 3 minutes.

So sometimes old school information is preferable.

The National Rail, TFL and Google journey planning software all give you really odd ways to get to places a lot of the time as well, they have no common sense. I’d much rather look at a map and plan a journey myself.

[matthieu1221]

Feb 23, 2024 15:10:58 GMT Green Kitten said:

They must have been quite costly and time consuming to change constantly, especially with all the recent bus changes (imagine the nuttiness of the central London consultation - that would have impacted so many maps). It is a shame as I love looking at them when waiting for a bus no matter where. The generic 'where to find your bus' is not nearly as interesting.

I agree with Dillon's assessment. The original maps were the best, where all stops within a radius of 1½ miles of the bus stop was shown and full routes were displayed. They tried to replace them with woeful new designs all included as part of the Barkingside and Hayes bus branding exercise, where each route was displayed as a single strand regardless of if they shared the same destination.

The current ones aren't great either, I don't see why you shouldn't display the entire route, surely it would make it easier to use. It is a loss of information without any benefit to those who don't travel too far on the bus. I find them harder to follow and am not a fan of the random markers without any stop names. I assume they are easier to update.

It's the same thing with the new timetables. Change for change sake. Why remove the information on stops the route has already passed? It still gives people an indication of where the bus came from which 1. can tell them that they are waiting on the wrong side of the road or 2. that there's a route to a particular location which may prove useful (particularly now that there's no bus map). It hasn't lightened their work as every stop (or group of stops) still needs a different timetable given the route map still shows where you are at.

[matthieu1221]

Feb 24, 2024 17:11:24 GMT buspete said:

I do agree the old Spider Map were better and urge TfL to produce them again. I wouldn’t think these would cost TFL to much to produce and update. It is a great resource and easy to read, especially if they’re going on bus stops anyway. Not everything need to be internet based where people get their answers just by entering where they want to commence and to where they want go to and the internet works it out for you. I like to look at something more tangible.

A good example of this is the actual timetable, where I like to look up my trains, as if I use National Rail Journey Planner if gives me 10 minutes to change at Croydon, Clapham Junction or London Bridge. I don’t need 10 minutes, where as I know what I’m doing I can change in 3 minutes.

So sometimes old school information is preferable.

Their website is also absolutely awful for anything to do with buses. Where to start... the maps via a Google Map extension with overlays with every single route in the same color when you click on a stop? It showing every stop as an overlay not just those that the route selected stop at? So much wrong with it. Of course, additionally, a complete non attempt in trying to present the bus network as a *network*.

[matthieu1221]

An odd curiosity here:

Despite the addition of SL3, Chislehurst Station retained the old format. See here.

Now compare this with Abbey Wood which has the new format. See here.

I'd ask which y'all find more useful but the answer seems pretty obvious. Abbey Wood has the misfortune of not actually showing any other SL3 stops southbound barring Bexleyheath and then you're left with an indication that it goes all the way to Bromley North with no indication of through where. Particularly unfortunate for an express bus service where passengers are perhaps more likely than other routes to travel a bit further. On the other hand, the Chislehurst Station one does do all that and what a difference it makes.

Bexleyheath may actually be the worst out of them lot. No stops at all due to the distance. Just the termini at the arrow. Too bad if you wanted to know if you could make the relatively quick hop to the next stop!