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Post by londonbusbro on Apr 15, 2024 9:20:38 GMT
heres some:
42 takes a big detour from camberwell to east dulwich sainsburys the rest of the route would be ok if it wasnt for the traffic
P13 takes like 40 mins to get from tulse hill to peckham and takes the most useless ever where it feels it like your going in circles
45 aint bad its just became useless after they got rid of the kings cross section back in 2019
P5 is useless and should be withdrawn
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Post by bk10mfe on Apr 15, 2024 10:33:59 GMT
heres some: 42 takes a big detour from camberwell to east dulwich sainsburys the rest of the route would be ok if it wasnt for the traffic P13 takes like 40 mins to get from tulse hill to peckham and takes the most useless ever where it feels it like your going in circles 45 aint bad its just became useless after they got rid of the kings cross section back in 2019 P5 is useless and should be withdrawn 42 is fine even though it is indirect from Camberwell to East Dulwich Sainsbury’s, it provides the link from North Dulwich to the Sainsbury’s. P13: I think a higher frequency route along the S-Circular would useful but the P13 is good for connecting houses to shopping centres like the Sainsbury’s in East Dulwich or the shops in Peckham. 45: The 45 was somewhat overbussing the Clerkenwell-Kings Cross corridor with the 17, 46 & 63, so I do understand its cut with the 40 being sent to Clerkenwell. P5: Definitely shouldn’t be withdrawn even though it is indirect. Like with the P13 it useful for connecting housing areas to Brixton & E&C. The only thing that I would change about the P5 is to extend it to Battersea Power Station. I think the 37 definitely needs a frequency increase. |
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Post by abellion on Apr 15, 2024 10:43:44 GMT
I’d expect to see the 45, 357, 414 mentioned however calling routes useless just for being indirect is a bit dramatic.
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Post by bk10mfe on Apr 15, 2024 11:14:03 GMT
I’d expect to see the 45, 357, 414 mentioned however calling routes useless just for being indirect is a bit dramatic. I always thought there were too many buses on the Whipps Cross-Walthamstow Corridor. What does the 357 actually do that other existing routes don’t already do? The 414 could also go with a frequency increase on the 14. |
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Post by M1104 on Apr 15, 2024 11:54:41 GMT
heres some: 42 takes a big detour from camberwell to east dulwich sainsburys the rest of the route would be ok if it wasnt for the traffic P13 takes like 40 mins to get from tulse hill to peckham and takes the most useless ever where it feels it like your going in circles 45 aint bad its just became useless after they got rid of the kings cross section back in 2019 P5 is useless and should be withdrawn Regular punters that use these routes (and others alike) may find them useful with their respective round-the-corner links, especially to those who may otherwise be stranded at home due to other forms of transport not being ideal for them, ie biking, uber, family car, etc. I've not really properly been on the P5 but I imagine it is very well used given that it serves deep into the heavily residential area of the back streets it serves, same with the P13 and definitely with other similar routes like the G1 and 42 (the last two I'd driven in the distant past but still vouch for them). All in all it's a matter of perception. |
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Post by joefrombow on Apr 15, 2024 12:03:22 GMT
I’d expect to see the 45, 357, 414 mentioned however calling routes useless just for being indirect is a bit dramatic. I always thought there were too many buses on the Whipps Cross-Walthamstow Corridor. What does the 357 actually do that other existing routes don’t already do? The 414 could also go with a frequency increase on the 14. You must be a psychic was literally about to post these , but even with a slight frequency increase I think 14 would be ok as during the day anyway a lot of 414s carrying not a lot of custom wouldn't say fresh air but not as much . The old 97A seems to be timed to duplicate other routes so a 97 turns up then a 357 turns up 🤷🏻♂️ but tfl must think it worthy as more useful routes (48) have gone . I also think the D8 seems to carry fresh air nowadays and doesn't justify DD buses and if anything should be rerouted via Devons Road and the 108 return during the daytime to the A12 would speed things up again and make the D8 have a purpose . |
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Post by B9TL205 on Apr 15, 2024 12:13:49 GMT
I always thought there were too many buses on the Whipps Cross-Walthamstow Corridor. What does the 357 actually do that other existing routes don’t already do? The 414 could also go with a frequency increase on the 14. You must be a psychic was literally about to post these , but even with a slight frequency increase I think 14 would be ok as during the day anyway a lot of 414s carrying not a lot of custom wouldn't say fresh air but not as much . The old 97A seems to be timed to duplicate other routes so a 97 turns up then a 357 turns up 🤷🏻♂️ but tfl must think it worthy as more useful routes (48) have gone . I also think the D8 seems to carry fresh air nowadays and doesn't justify DD buses and if anything should be rerouted via Devons Road and the 108 return during the daytime to the A12 would speed things up again and make the D8 have a purpose . I could've agreed with you but I've seen many D8s recently and they have been quite busier than you'd think - specifically towards Stratford. I mean the route has its quiet times but has proven to receive decent loadings at the very least. The 108 has proven to be a really useful link from Poplar towards North Greenwich/Greenwich Peninsula for the shoppers of Ikea/B&Q Whilst as much as I miss their previous forms it's best to leave them as they are |
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Post by vjaska on Apr 15, 2024 12:14:41 GMT
heres some: 42 takes a big detour from camberwell to east dulwich sainsburys the rest of the route would be ok if it wasnt for the traffic P13 takes like 40 mins to get from tulse hill to peckham and takes the most useless ever where it feels it like your going in circles 45 aint bad its just became useless after they got rid of the kings cross section back in 2019 P5 is useless and should be withdrawn Sorry but if you think the 45, P5 & P13 are useless, then I don’t think you understand why they exist the way they do (P5 or P13) or what they do (45) and to clarify, I live in and around the area. I would suggest looking up the word useless because I don’t think you understand its meaning. The 45 should never of been cut back but it isn’t useless and provides links to Kings College from south of Brixton, extra capacity between Brixton & Camberwell and local links at the southern end from Brixton Hill to the doctors surgery on Streatham Place. The P13 isn’t designed for end to end journeys - it’s designed to leave the beaten track and link communities from those spots to places like Peckham & Streatham. Tulse Hill to Peckham can be done via a 3 stop train journey or taking a bus to Herne Hill and the 37 Just like the P13, the P5 is designed in a similar manner, linking several residential areas with Stockwell, Brixton & Walworth and a lot of older people rely on this route to do so. It’s far from useless and should not be withdrawn for sure |
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Post by borneobus on Apr 15, 2024 12:39:49 GMT
Makes a change as it's normally the 357 that's taking a kicking!
As a non-local I'm not familiar with the key links that the routes provide, together with the demographics that use the routes but what I do know is that the P5:
1) Is the only route to serve Bedford Road (south of Clapham North LU) and has two stops solely served by the P5
2) Is the only route to serve six stops as the route makes a circuit away from Wandsworth Road north to Patmore Estate (terminating point) and return to Wandsworth Road
P5 1.16m PAX in 2023 (around 80k boarded at stops on the Patmore Estate section of route last year)
42 2.15m
45 2.63m
P13 1.55m
So a total over the four routes of 7.5m pax
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Post by wirewiper on Apr 15, 2024 12:47:58 GMT
heres some: 42 takes a big detour from camberwell to east dulwich sainsburys the rest of the route would be ok if it wasnt for the traffic P13 takes like 40 mins to get from tulse hill to peckham and takes the most useless ever where it feels it like your going in circles 45 aint bad its just became useless after they got rid of the kings cross section back in 2019 P5 is useless and should be withdrawn You clearly don't understand the nature of seemingly indirect routes and how real-world passengers actually use them. Such routes typically cater for a number of short but often overlapping passenger journeys, that is their value rather than for end-to-end journeys. |
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Post by bk10mfe on Apr 15, 2024 13:21:52 GMT
heres some: 42 takes a big detour from camberwell to east dulwich sainsburys the rest of the route would be ok if it wasnt for the traffic P13 takes like 40 mins to get from tulse hill to peckham and takes the most useless ever where it feels it like your going in circles 45 aint bad its just became useless after they got rid of the kings cross section back in 2019 P5 is useless and should be withdrawn You clearly don't understand the nature of seemingly indirect routes and how real-world passengers actually use them. Such routes typically cater for a number of short but often overlapping passenger journeys, that is their value rather than for end-to-end journeys. Almost all routes are not designed for end to end routes & there are numerous extremely indirect routes e.g 62,191, 224,499, P5 & K5. |
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Post by vjaska on Apr 15, 2024 13:50:39 GMT
Makes a change as it's normally the 357 that's taking a kicking! As a non-local I'm not familiar with the key links that the routes provide, together with the demographics that use the routes but what I do know is that the P5: 1) Is the only route to serve Bedford Road (south of Clapham North LU) and has two stops solely served by the P5 2) Is the only route to serve six stops as the route makes a circuit away from Wandsworth Road north to Patmore Estate (terminating point) and return to Wandsworth Road P5 1.16m PAX in 2023 (around 80k boarded at stops on the Patmore Estate section of route last year) 42 2.15m 45 2.63m P13 1.55m So a total over the four routes of 7.5m pax And this is why, as a local, I get really annoyed when other people say such things about routes they either clearly don't use or don't understand why they exist in the first place. This last 20 years has been the most settled the P5 has ever been with the extension to Patmore Estate coming in 2004 compared to the previous 14 years of it's existence where it had three different terminus in Brixton, Clapham North & Stockwell, two of which were one way loop workings. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 15, 2024 14:05:53 GMT
I always thought there were too many buses on the Whipps Cross-Walthamstow Corridor. What does the 357 actually do that other existing routes don’t already do? The 414 could also go with a frequency increase on the 14. You must be a psychic was literally about to post these , but even with a slight frequency increase I think 14 would be ok as during the day anyway a lot of 414s carrying not a lot of custom wouldn't say fresh air but not as much . The old 97A seems to be timed to duplicate other routes so a 97 turns up then a 357 turns up 🤷🏻♂️ but tfl must think it worthy as more useful routes (48) have gone . I also think the D8 seems to carry fresh air nowadays and doesn't justify DD buses and if anything should be rerouted via Devons Road and the 108 return during the daytime to the A12 would speed things up again and make the D8 have a purpose . The 357 does have quite a long section between Chingford Mount and Walthamstow which has no other links to Whipps Cross for the Hospital however carries just over 1m a year which it could be questioned are they using the unique links or have simply boarded it as it arrived for a 212 or various others routes. The 357 was proposed for withdrawal but the consultation didn't go ahead so not sure if there were any mitigating changes proposed to other routes. Either they would have gone for broke and just an outright withdrawal with the hopper fare and routes 97/212/215/444/W16 all given as alternatives to use and change elsewhere in Walthamstow or the 215 could have been extended from Walthamstow to Whipps Cross which would have covered most the 357 links between Whipps Cross and Chingford Mount. |
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Post by sdaniel on Apr 15, 2024 14:44:52 GMT
You must be a psychic was literally about to post these , but even with a slight frequency increase I think 14 would be ok as during the day anyway a lot of 414s carrying not a lot of custom wouldn't say fresh air but not as much . The old 97A seems to be timed to duplicate other routes so a 97 turns up then a 357 turns up 🤷🏻♂️ but tfl must think it worthy as more useful routes (48) have gone . I also think the D8 seems to carry fresh air nowadays and doesn't justify DD buses and if anything should be rerouted via Devons Road and the 108 return during the daytime to the A12 would speed things up again and make the D8 have a purpose . The 357 does have quite a long section between Chingford Mount and Walthamstow which has no other links to Whipps Cross for the Hospital however carries just over 1m a year which it could be questioned are they using the unique links or have simply boarded it as it arrived for a 212 or various others routes. The 357 was proposed for withdrawal but the consultation didn't go ahead so not sure if there were any mitigating changes proposed to other routes. Either they would have gone for broke and just an outright withdrawal with the hopper fare and routes 97/212/215/444/W16 all given as alternatives to use and change elsewhere in Walthamstow or the 215 could have been extended from Walthamstow to Whipps Cross which would have covered most the 357 links between Whipps Cross and Chingford Mount. Perhaps the 257 could be extended to Chingford Mount and then the 357 can be withdrawn. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 15, 2024 14:50:43 GMT
The 357 does have quite a long section between Chingford Mount and Walthamstow which has no other links to Whipps Cross for the Hospital however carries just over 1m a year which it could be questioned are they using the unique links or have simply boarded it as it arrived for a 212 or various others routes. The 357 was proposed for withdrawal but the consultation didn't go ahead so not sure if there were any mitigating changes proposed to other routes. Either they would have gone for broke and just an outright withdrawal with the hopper fare and routes 97/212/215/444/W16 all given as alternatives to use and change elsewhere in Walthamstow or the 215 could have been extended from Walthamstow to Whipps Cross which would have covered most the 357 links between Whipps Cross and Chingford Mount. Perhaps the 257 could be extended to Chingford Mount and then the 357 can be withdrawn. Frequency would probably be too high. The 357 is every 15 mins. |
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