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Post by greenboy on Apr 16, 2024 9:24:49 GMT
The 414 can fill up at the first stop at Marble Arch at times! Yes, yes, it surprised me too. It isn't as useless as usually portrayed. These passengers also don't board the 137 suggesting they are going beyond Knightsbridge likely to South Ken and beyond (they arrive decently full at South Ken with most continuing onwards plus more passengers boarding there), would be link broken unnecessarily imo to force a change at Knightsbridge. That’s interesting, I think the 414 would be more useful and provide more unique links if it continued beyond Marble Arch to either Paddington, Portman Square or Oxford Circus. Getting to Paddington Station or St Mary’s Hospital from anywhere south of Hyde Park by bus is difficult at present and both South Kensington and Paddington Praed Street lack step free access so the Circle Line isn’t always an alternative. The 23 was the wrong route to try to provide a link between Paddington and the Knightsbridge/South Kensington areas, so not surprised that it wasn’t a success. The cutback of the 137 to Marble Arch was bad politics, take away the buses from Oxford Street and you take away the customers that actually shop there, it should be extended to Portman Square or Oxford Circus. I agree that the 414 would be more useful if it went to Paddington and a merger with the 23 has been suggested on here before. I also agree about the 137, whilst I understand the need to reduce buses along Oxford Street the last stop at Marble Arch Speakers Corner really is awful. |
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Post by BK15AZR on Apr 16, 2024 10:44:29 GMT
You must be a psychic was literally about to post these , but even with a slight frequency increase I think 14 would be ok as during the day anyway a lot of 414s carrying not a lot of custom wouldn't say fresh air but not as much . The old 97A seems to be timed to duplicate other routes so a 97 turns up then a 357 turns up 🤷🏻♂️ but tfl must think it worthy as more useful routes (48) have gone . I also think the D8 seems to carry fresh air nowadays and doesn't justify DD buses and if anything should be rerouted via Devons Road and the 108 return during the daytime to the A12 would speed things up again and make the D8 have a purpose . I could've agreed with you but I've seen many D8s recently and they have been quite busier than you'd think - specifically towards Stratford. I mean the route has its quiet times but has proven to receive decent loadings at the very least. The 108 has proven to be a really useful link from Poplar towards North Greenwich/Greenwich Peninsula for the shoppers of Ikea/B&Q Whilst as much as I miss their previous forms it's best to leave them as they are The D8 is definitely becoming more popular these days, probably thanks to all the new residential housing along the route esp. in Bow and Isle of Dogs. It also provides an incredibly quick end-to-end link even with the rail alternatives (DLR/Jubilee Line) and is good for someone wanting a convenient hop onto a bus rather than walking all the way up and down the train platforms. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 16, 2024 11:09:25 GMT
That’s interesting, I think the 414 would be more useful and provide more unique links if it continued beyond Marble Arch to either Paddington, Portman Square or Oxford Circus. Getting to Paddington Station or St Mary’s Hospital from anywhere south of Hyde Park by bus is difficult at present and both South Kensington and Paddington Praed Street lack step free access so the Circle Line isn’t always an alternative. The 23 was the wrong route to try to provide a link between Paddington and the Knightsbridge/South Kensington areas, so not surprised that it wasn’t a success. The cutback of the 137 to Marble Arch was bad politics, take away the buses from Oxford Street and you take away the customers that actually shop there, it should be extended to Portman Square or Oxford Circus. I agree that the 414 would be more useful if it went to Paddington and a merger with the 23 has been suggested on here before. I also agree about the 137, whilst I understand the need to reduce buses along Oxford Street the last stop at Marble Arch Speakers Corner really is awful. It's a shame North Row didn't progress further as if it hadn't been used by the 94, it would have been good for the 137 to drop off there, pick up there and then serve the Marble Arch station stop on its retain to Streatham Hill. |
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Post by enviroPB on Apr 16, 2024 12:38:13 GMT
The 414 can fill up at the first stop at Marble Arch at times! Yes, yes, it surprised me too. It isn't as useless as usually portrayed. These passengers also don't board the 137 suggesting they are going beyond Knightsbridge likely to South Ken and beyond (they arrive decently full at South Ken with most continuing onwards plus more passengers boarding there), would be link broken unnecessarily imo to force a change at Knightsbridge. That’s interesting, I think the 414 would be more useful and provide more unique links if it continued beyond Marble Arch to either Paddington, Portman Square or Oxford Circus. Getting to Paddington Station or St Mary’s Hospital from anywhere south of Hyde Park by bus is difficult at present and both South Kensington and Paddington Praed Street lack step free access so the Circle Line isn’t always an alternative. The 23 was the wrong route to try to provide a link between Paddington and the Knightsbridge/South Kensington areas, so not surprised that it wasn’t a success. The cutback of the 137 to Marble Arch was bad politics, take away the buses from Oxford Street and you take away the customers that actually shop there, it should be extended to Portman Square or Oxford Circus. It would be nice if the 414 was extended to Paddington Basin via the station. It would give the route a bit more life and would help passengers navigating the waterway there, it isn't the most accessible given the narrow footbridge and loads of foot traffic there. When the 15 was extended there over a decade ago there wasn't much in the way of housing, totally different story to today. |
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Post by bk10mfe on Apr 16, 2024 14:09:32 GMT
That’s interesting, I think the 414 would be more useful and provide more unique links if it continued beyond Marble Arch to either Paddington, Portman Square or Oxford Circus. Getting to Paddington Station or St Mary’s Hospital from anywhere south of Hyde Park by bus is difficult at present and both South Kensington and Paddington Praed Street lack step free access so the Circle Line isn’t always an alternative. The 23 was the wrong route to try to provide a link between Paddington and the Knightsbridge/South Kensington areas, so not surprised that it wasn’t a success. The cutback of the 137 to Marble Arch was bad politics, take away the buses from Oxford Street and you take away the customers that actually shop there, it should be extended to Portman Square or Oxford Circus. I agree that the 414 would be more useful if it went to Paddington and a merger with the 23 has been suggested on here before. I also agree about the 137, whilst I understand the need to reduce buses along Oxford Street the last stop at Marble Arch Speakers Corner really is awful. Yes the 23 could have merged with the 414 if the 6 continued to Aldwych & the 16 ran between Victoria & Brent Park, this would have made more savings for TfL, new links between South Kensington/Chelsea & Paddington would be created & the Victoria-Kilburn link would have been retained. The only thing that would be lost is the Paddington-Maida Vale-Kilburn round corner link. |
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Post by wirewiper on Apr 16, 2024 16:35:10 GMT
I always thought there were too many buses on the Whipps Cross-Walthamstow Corridor. What does the 357 actually do that other existing routes don’t already do? The 414 could also go with a frequency increase on the 14. You must be a psychic was literally about to post these , but even with a slight frequency increase I think 14 would be ok as during the day anyway a lot of 414s carrying not a lot of custom wouldn't say fresh air but not as much . The old 97A seems to be timed to duplicate other routes so a 97 turns up then a 357 turns up 🤷🏻♂️ but tfl must think it worthy as more useful routes (48) have gone . I also think the D8 seems to carry fresh air nowadays and doesn't justify DD buses and if anything should be rerouted via Devons Road and the 108 return during the daytime to the A12 would speed things up again and make the D8 have a purpose . IIRC the 108 and D8 routes were swapped and the D8 converted to d/d because of a new school in Bow alongside the Blackwall Tunnel Northern Approach. |
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Post by routew15 on Apr 16, 2024 16:45:46 GMT
The East Dulwich end of the 42 isn't very busy, the route could perhaps be increased to x10mins north of Camberwell with only alternate buses to East Dulwich? I agree that the 45 is pretty useless in its current form, various alternatives have been suggested on here but what's wrong with the P5 and P13? Old favourites the 357 and 414 have also had subsequent mentions, I think the best suggestion for replacing the 357 has been to extend the 20 from Walthamstow to Chingford Mount. You could reroute the 484 between Denmark Hill & Goose Green via the 42’s LOR & have it perform a double run to serve East Dulwich Sainsbury’s. The 42 could then be cut back to Camberwell or even extend from Camberwell to Clapham Park via the 45’s LOR, with the 45 withdrawn. The 484 should not be changed. The 42/45 changes don’t sound all that awful as the 35 is still available for journeys north of Burgess Park Agreed extending the 20 to Chingford Mount is ridiculous. The W16 does not have a Hail & Ride section. The section you are referring to is actually nonstop (not sure if drivers do it as often nowadays as the layout of Lea Bridge Road has changed, but they used to use either Dunton or Westerham Road) A bus stop on the Northern section of Capworth Street was trialled a few years back but didn’t seem to work and was withdrawn (from my observation as it was to close to the previous stop - a stop would probably work better at the point of Dunton Road and Capworth Street) Swapping the W16 and W19 would not work. In order to serve the hospital and Bakers Arms from Eastern Road the W16 would need to do a double run down to Bakers Arms which would not work. The other option is to head direct to Whipps X Hosp but so many links would be broken between Bakers Arms and the areas both route connect. Extending the 215 is probably the best bet for a replacement for a withdrawn 357 if at all needed. |
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Post by mondraker275 on Apr 16, 2024 16:59:21 GMT
The only thing annoying about D8 is the loop around Bow.
No issue with 357.
I'll be back in September to post about W12 and W13 and W14.
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 16, 2024 17:10:21 GMT
You must be a psychic was literally about to post these , but even with a slight frequency increase I think 14 would be ok as during the day anyway a lot of 414s carrying not a lot of custom wouldn't say fresh air but not as much . The old 97A seems to be timed to duplicate other routes so a 97 turns up then a 357 turns up 🤷🏻♂️ but tfl must think it worthy as more useful routes (48) have gone . I also think the D8 seems to carry fresh air nowadays and doesn't justify DD buses and if anything should be rerouted via Devons Road and the 108 return during the daytime to the A12 would speed things up again and make the D8 have a purpose . IIRC the 108 and D8 routes were swapped and the D8 converted to d/d because of a new school in Bow alongside the Blackwall Tunnel Northern Approach. If Silvertown Tunnel takes a bit of pressure off Blackwall then it may encourage more people from East to take the 108 to N Greenwich and IKEA for shopping. With the common gridlock at the moment I wouldn't be surprised if people are put off a bit. |
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Post by wirewiper on Apr 16, 2024 17:15:59 GMT
The only thing annoying about D8 is the loop around Bow. No issue with 357. I'll be back in September to post about W12 and W13 and W14. The D8 loop workings are to facilitate interchange with other bus services at Bow Church, and to bring buses (especially southbound) into Bromley High Street saving the need for bus users to negotiate the Bow roundabout on foot. The 108 had the same loops before the routes were swapped. |
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Post by bk10mfe on Apr 16, 2024 20:03:29 GMT
You could reroute the 484 between Denmark Hill & Goose Green via the 42’s LOR & have it perform a double run to serve East Dulwich Sainsbury’s. The 42 could then be cut back to Camberwell or even extend from Camberwell to Clapham Park via the 45’s LOR, with the 45 withdrawn. The 484 should not be changed. The 42/45 changes don’t sound all that awful as the 35 is still available for journeys north of Burgess Park Agreed extending the 20 to Chingford Mount is ridiculous. The W16 does not have a Hail & Ride section. The section you are referring to is actually nonstop (not sure if drivers do it as often nowadays as the layout of Lea Bridge Road has changed, but they used to use either Dunton or Westerham Road) A bus stop on the Northern section of Capworth Street was trialled a few years back but didn’t seem to work and was withdrawn (from my observation as it was to close to the previous stop - a stop would probably work better at the point of Dunton Road and Capworth Street) Swapping the W16 and W19 would not work. In order to serve the hospital and Bakers Arms from Eastern Road the W16 would need to do a double run down to Bakers Arms which would not work. The other option is to head direct to Whipps X Hosp but so many links would be broken between Bakers Arms and the areas both route connect. Extending the 215 is probably the best bet for a replacement for a withdrawn 357 if at all needed. The 42’s section south of Camberwell isn’t very busy as greenboy has mentioned, hence why I rerouted the 484, though the link from North Dulwich to the Sainsbury’s shouldn’t be removed. With replacing the 45, you could also do the same with the 40 (or alternatively extend the 45 to Clerkenwell & withdraw the 40), with a frequency increase on the 176. Regarding the W16, I have realised that small section is because of the right turn onto Lea Bridge Road from High Road is banned. I think swapping the W16/W19 however could work if the W16 just serves the hospital & not Bakers Arms anymore & you divert the 275 to Leyton Bus garage, which comes with the separate benefit of clearing out stand space at St James St that the 34 has recently been using. Therefore the W16 directly links Chingford Hatch/Mount to the hospital grounds & the 357 would no longer be needed. |
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Post by routew15 on Apr 16, 2024 20:51:30 GMT
The 42’s section south of Camberwell isn’t very busy as greenboy has mentioned, hence why I rerouted the 484, though the link from North Dulwich to the Sainsbury’s shouldn’t be removed. With replacing the 45, you could also do the same with the 40 (or alternatively extend the 45 to Clerkenwell & withdraw the 40), with a frequency increase on the 176. Regarding the W16, I have realised that small section is because of the right turn onto Lea Bridge Road from High Road is banned. I think swapping the W16/W19 however could work if the W16 just serves the hospital & not Bakers Arms anymore & you divert the 275 to Leyton Bus garage, which comes with the separate benefit of clearing out stand space at St James St that the 34 has recently been using. Therefore the W16 directly links Chingford Hatch/Mount to the hospital grounds & the 357 would no longer be needed. This still remains a bad idea. The W16 is not the route to tamper with and send to Whipps Cross. Removing the W16 from Bakers Arms would sever thousands of journeys. Personally don't feel there are enough trips generated from Chingford / Highams Park to justify this level of restructure of bus routes across the rest of Waltham Forest. |
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Post by matthieu1221 on Apr 17, 2024 2:27:20 GMT
I agree that the 414 would be more useful if it went to Paddington and a merger with the 23 has been suggested on here before. I also agree about the 137, whilst I understand the need to reduce buses along Oxford Street the last stop at Marble Arch Speakers Corner really is awful. Yes the 23 could have merged with the 414 if the 6 continued to Aldwych & the 16 ran between Victoria & Brent Park, this would have made more savings for TfL, new links between South Kensington/Chelsea & Paddington would be created & the Victoria-Kilburn link would have been retained. The only thing that would be lost is the Paddington-Maida Vale-Kilburn round corner link. I believe I'm proposed this once on here before but an acceptable mitigation to scrapping the 414 for me would be rerouting the 14 after Piccadilly Circus via Regent Street, Oxford Circus, Oxford Street, then onto the British Museum and Russell Square as it does now (plus an extension to Euston). - It restores the once longtime east-west link to the British Museum which will be far more used than the current north-south one largely redundant with the Picc and the 19 just a short walk away on New Oxford Street. - It maintains links between Oxford Street and the 414 routing beyond HPC (from a different part of the street yes, but likely one where the passengers will actually be rather than Marble Arch) - It somewhat recreates the link once provided by the 10 between UCL and Imperial (roughly) - The 19+38 have ample capacity between TCR and HPC (and Knightsbridge for the former) via Piccadilly and Shaftesbury Avenue on their own
- A disadvantage though would be a slightly increased journey time, the traffic on Regent Street needs sorting, hopefully (we can always be optimistic) making it bus only will be considered with the upcoming plans to redistribute public space.
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Post by mondraker275 on Apr 17, 2024 6:55:46 GMT
The only thing annoying about D8 is the loop around Bow. No issue with 357. I'll be back in September to post about W12 and W13 and W14. The D8 loop workings are to facilitate interchange with other bus services at Bow Church, and to bring buses (especially southbound) into Bromley High Street saving the need for bus users to negotiate the Bow roundabout on foot. The 108 had the same loops before the routes were swapped. The loop is more for locals than for interchange. It only occurs towards Crossharbour and therefore the interchange is only with 205 really but you could easily take any other bus from Stratford to interchange with that if you wanted the 205. Therefore, the loop only benefits very few locals from the two stops it serves there. I suspect most people who take D8 from there either go to Bromley by Bow for Tesco/station/school (which could be done by walking/488) or to Poplar (which could be done by 108/or walking to D8). |
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Post by wirewiper on Apr 17, 2024 7:13:55 GMT
The D8 loop workings are to facilitate interchange with other bus services at Bow Church, and to bring buses (especially southbound) into Bromley High Street saving the need for bus users to negotiate the Bow roundabout on foot. The 108 had the same loops before the routes were swapped. The loop is more for locals than for interchange. It only occurs towards Crossharbour and therefore the interchange is only with 205 really but you could easily take any other bus from Stratford to interchange with that if you wanted the 205. Therefore, the loop only benefits very few locals from the two stops it serves there. I suspect most people who take D8 from there either go to Bromley by Bow for Tesco/station/school (which could be done by walking/488) or to Poplar (which could be done by 108/or walking to D8). There are also links with the 8 and 488 at Bow Church. I used to alight from the 8 and catch a 108 there many times. |
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