|
|
Post by matthieu1221 on May 19, 2024 20:21:47 GMT
I guess so, but people from Kilburn areas and even Willesden actually seem to use the 98 as its got its purpose from Oxford Street, an area where people are not as likely to use the Tube than lets say Warwick Avenue and Kensal Rise on the 6. For that reason, I’d say that the 98 would be more suitable but this is a great idea nevertheless. Most people would have exited the bus by Orchardson Street, and if not then a swap onto either route, and the 16 would also be there too. Yeah this idea is probably most effective if the 189 is sent back to Oxford Circus, so that Kilburn still retains a link to Oxford St. There’s plenty of unused stand space there meanwhile the Marble Arch space is very crammed. Stand space seems to be greatly reduced under the Oxford Street scheme currently being worked on. Not too sure by how much in exact bus parking spaces but a lot of the stands will be moved and reduced in capacity. Holles Street for instance will be going entirely, and the replacement stand for the 73 and 55 on the east of Regent Street has me a bit miffed given how many buses usually stand on Holles Street currently. So there'll be less of a luxury of surplus stand spaces in the near future unfortunately. |
|
|
|
Route 32
May 19, 2024 20:46:09 GMT
via mobile
greg likes this
Post by southlondonbus on May 19, 2024 20:46:09 GMT
Yeah this idea is probably most effective if the 189 is sent back to Oxford Circus, so that Kilburn still retains a link to Oxford St. There’s plenty of unused stand space there meanwhile the Marble Arch space is very crammed. Stand space seems to be greatly reduced under the Oxford Street scheme currently being worked on. Not too sure by how much in exact bus parking spaces but a lot of the stands will be moved and reduced in capacity. Holles Street for instance will be going entirely, and the replacement stand for the 73 and 55 on the east of Regent Street has me a bit miffed given how many buses usually stand on Holles Street currently. So there'll be less of a luxury of surplus stand spaces in the near future unfortunately. Does this still involve the 22 being pulled back to Conduit Street and the 7 being altered to not go round the block at Oxford Circus to stand? |
|
|
|
Route 32
May 19, 2024 23:56:02 GMT
via mobile
greg likes this
Post by greg on May 19, 2024 23:56:02 GMT
Im sure it was to remove buses in Oxford Street. I do think the 139 is enough. The best option IMO would be to extend the 16 to Marble Arch and up the frequency on the 98. Dont think the 6/98 reroute would have been all that important because most people between Kilburn and Marble Arch via Maida Hill use the 98, hence the tweaks to the 16/332 rather than the 98. Adding that extra route in Marble Arch to pick up those to Edgware Road and nearby Kilburn who get left behind because the 98 is filled to the doors from TCR is the main issue I would believe so. And as for the 189, yes it serves Kilburn but I wouldn’t call it anywhere near as impactful because nobody from the St John’s Wood / Abbey Road area is using the bus when their homes are at least 3 million with Rolls Royces parked outside their front gated drivethroughts, its also a lot more indirect. Whilst there are some rich people in John's Wood there are plenty of not so well off too, the area can be quite mixed. There are loads of people in the area who use the bus, I suspect it is a convenient way to get into Central London. There is certainly an argument to re-route the 189 back to Oxford Circus, as it lost a lot of passengers when it was re-routed to Marble Arch. Having said that there's a much stronger argument to send the 113 back to Oxford Circus as no Finchley Road buses go down Oxford Street anymore, but the 139 does. I don't know is there are capacity issues on the 16 / 98 south of Kilburn and if the 16/98 need a frequency increase. I thought it was wrong to cut the 16 back from Victoria, but I see little benefit in just re-routing it to Marble Arch, that section of Edgware Road between the Marylebone Flyover and Marble Arch is not short of buses as well as being quite walkable. If you are going to re-extend the 16, send it back to Victoria and put back the lost useful links. I do agree with you, myself was a 139/189 user for five years from the Alexandra Road estate to Baker Street in the evenjng peaks, but it is incomparable to amount of usage the 7/98 gets up to Edgware Road and then 98 and so to Kilburn. The 16 would always be packed to the rim from the Marble Arch / Edgware Road bus stop too. I think the 139 is enough for buses now in the Oxford Circus section because demand has fallen and I do not think people travel further than Baker Street regardless of the route and more so tend to hop on to the Bakerloo/Jubilee Line. I would say the 113 would be helpful, but I dont think needed at a convenience. As for the 16, I’m not sure if extending it to Victoria would be viable considering its route length. I know its only a short mile length however it could be a situation where the Brent section of the route suffers because of delays and constrant traffic and diversions every weekend in the Park Lane area and HPC to get to Victoria. I also dont think this part of the route was ever that busy, so the 6 should be just enough. A Marble Arch-Brent and Holborn-Willesden trunk route in the Kilburn area seem adequate. Instead of upping frequencies, I think this would be fine but you could always (unpopular opinion) reroute the 46 to Kilburn Park from St Johns Wood Road up Kilburn Road. Warwick Avenue to Paddington has various other routes to take, just albeit a longer routing or extend the 206 to Paddington (not the 32). |
|
|
|
Route 32
May 19, 2024 23:59:29 GMT
via mobile
Post by greg on May 19, 2024 23:59:29 GMT
Yeah this idea is probably most effective if the 189 is sent back to Oxford Circus, so that Kilburn still retains a link to Oxford St. There’s plenty of unused stand space there meanwhile the Marble Arch space is very crammed. Stand space seems to be greatly reduced under the Oxford Street scheme currently being worked on. Not too sure by how much in exact bus parking spaces but a lot of the stands will be moved and reduced in capacity. Holles Street for instance will be going entirely, and the replacement stand for the 73 and 55 on the east of Regent Street has me a bit miffed given how many buses usually stand on Holles Street currently. So there'll be less of a luxury of surplus stand spaces in the near future unfortunately. The stands at Vere Street also seem to have been removed. I did have a look at the new 55/73 stand by Mortimer Street and was also confused, it certainly isnt enough for the two and I do seem some 55s and 73s share the stand with the 12 before going back down towards Mortimer Street eastbound. It is a much quicker time effective change though so I do adovcate it, missing the Circus junction traffic lights and the roadwork ridden routing of Holles Street and Conduit Street. The 12 IMO could be moved to St John Princes Street with the 159, is that happening? Not sure whats going on for the 7 or 22 though, but the Vere street stand for the 22 is gone |
|
|
|
Route 32
May 20, 2024 6:48:39 GMT
via mobile
greg likes this
Post by southlondonbus on May 20, 2024 6:48:39 GMT
Stand space seems to be greatly reduced under the Oxford Street scheme currently being worked on. Not too sure by how much in exact bus parking spaces but a lot of the stands will be moved and reduced in capacity. Holles Street for instance will be going entirely, and the replacement stand for the 73 and 55 on the east of Regent Street has me a bit miffed given how many buses usually stand on Holles Street currently. So there'll be less of a luxury of surplus stand spaces in the near future unfortunately. The stands at Vere Street also seem to have been removed. I did have a look at the new 55/73 stand by Mortimer Street and was also confused, it certainly isnt enough for the two and I do seem some 55s and 73s share the stand with the 12 before going back down towards Mortimer Street eastbound. It is a much quicker time effective change though so I do adovcate it, missing the Circus junction traffic lights and the roadwork ridden routing of Holles Street and Conduit Street. The 12 IMO could be moved to St John Princes Street with the 159, is that happening? Not sure whats going on for the 7 or 22 though, but the Vere street stand for the 22 is gone I Still think a solution would be to replace the 22 section between Green Park and Oxford Circus with another route terminating at Oxo. Admittedly 73 is a bit frequent for it but if that did re extend to the Victoria it would remove the need for both the 22 and 73 to stand at Oxo. The 22 could then replace the 14 to Russell Square, the 19 divert via South Ken, the 14 withdrawn and the 414 upped to every 6 to 8 mins. To make further savings the 19 could run via Beaufort Street to Battersea Bridge and the 345 pulled back to Clapham Junction with the CJ to King's Road section left to the 49 and 319. Reasons for it; King's Road still maintains a link to Piccadilly Circus and Shaftesbury Ave in place of the 19, South Kensington is still linked to the West End (19) Putney still linked to TCR etc (22) and Beaufort Street still linked to S Ken and Battersea Bridge (the link to Clapham Junction would be lost thou). Obviously the 414 would be renumbered 14 to keep the number in the Putney area. The 345 could then extend from Peckham somewhere else. |
|
|
|
Route 32
May 20, 2024 8:17:41 GMT
via mobile
greg likes this
Post by bk10mfe on May 20, 2024 8:17:41 GMT
The stands at Vere Street also seem to have been removed. I did have a look at the new 55/73 stand by Mortimer Street and was also confused, it certainly isnt enough for the two and I do seem some 55s and 73s share the stand with the 12 before going back down towards Mortimer Street eastbound. It is a much quicker time effective change though so I do adovcate it, missing the Circus junction traffic lights and the roadwork ridden routing of Holles Street and Conduit Street. The 12 IMO could be moved to St John Princes Street with the 159, is that happening? Not sure whats going on for the 7 or 22 though, but the Vere street stand for the 22 is gone I Still think a solution would be to replace the 22 section between Green Park and Oxford Circus with another route terminating at Oxo. Admittedly 73 is a bit frequent for it but if that did re extend to the Victoria it would remove the need for both the 22 and 73 to stand at Oxo. The 22 could then replace the 14 to Russell Square, the 19 divert via South Ken, the 14 withdrawn and the 414 upped to every 6 to 8 mins. To make further savings the 19 could run via Beaufort Street to Battersea Bridge and the 345 pulled back to Clapham Junction with the CJ to King's Road section left to the 49 and 319. Reasons for it; King's Road still maintains a link to Piccadilly Circus and Shaftesbury Ave in place of the 19, South Kensington is still linked to the West End (19) Putney still linked to TCR etc (22) and Beaufort Street still linked to S Ken and Battersea Bridge (the link to Clapham Junction would be lost thou). Obviously the 414 would be renumbered 14 to keep the number in the Putney area. The 345 could then extend from Peckham somewhere else. The 73 is too frequent to run through & LT’s can’t run via Berkeley Square. You could reroute the 390 though which can more easily swap to VWH’s/VMH’s & is a bit less frequent than the 73. I think the 7 is more suited for the Russell Square section as it would help relive the 98 a bit & frees up stand space in Oxford Circus. |
|
|
|
Route 32
May 20, 2024 11:39:42 GMT
via mobile
Post by vjaska on May 20, 2024 11:39:42 GMT
The stands at Vere Street also seem to have been removed. I did have a look at the new 55/73 stand by Mortimer Street and was also confused, it certainly isnt enough for the two and I do seem some 55s and 73s share the stand with the 12 before going back down towards Mortimer Street eastbound. It is a much quicker time effective change though so I do adovcate it, missing the Circus junction traffic lights and the roadwork ridden routing of Holles Street and Conduit Street. The 12 IMO could be moved to St John Princes Street with the 159, is that happening? Not sure whats going on for the 7 or 22 though, but the Vere street stand for the 22 is gone I Still think a solution would be to replace the 22 section between Green Park and Oxford Circus with another route terminating at Oxo. Admittedly 73 is a bit frequent for it but if that did re extend to the Victoria it would remove the need for both the 22 and 73 to stand at Oxo. The 22 could then replace the 14 to Russell Square, the 19 divert via South Ken, the 14 withdrawn and the 414 upped to every 6 to 8 mins. To make further savings the 19 could run via Beaufort Street to Battersea Bridge and the 345 pulled back to Clapham Junction with the CJ to King's Road section left to the 49 and 319. Reasons for it; King's Road still maintains a link to Piccadilly Circus and Shaftesbury Ave in place of the 19, South Kensington is still linked to the West End (19) Putney still linked to TCR etc (22) and Beaufort Street still linked to S Ken and Battersea Bridge (the link to Clapham Junction would be lost thou). Obviously the 414 would be renumbered 14 to keep the number in the Putney area. The 345 could then extend from Peckham somewhere else. I don’t agree with pulling the 345 back to Clapham Junction as that corridor is busy. I’ve long thought the 345 should be split into two routes - one from South Kensington to Brixton and one from Clapham Junction to Lewisham |
|
|
|
Route 32
May 20, 2024 11:51:52 GMT
via mobile
Post by southlondonbus on May 20, 2024 11:51:52 GMT
I Still think a solution would be to replace the 22 section between Green Park and Oxford Circus with another route terminating at Oxo. Admittedly 73 is a bit frequent for it but if that did re extend to the Victoria it would remove the need for both the 22 and 73 to stand at Oxo. The 22 could then replace the 14 to Russell Square, the 19 divert via South Ken, the 14 withdrawn and the 414 upped to every 6 to 8 mins. To make further savings the 19 could run via Beaufort Street to Battersea Bridge and the 345 pulled back to Clapham Junction with the CJ to King's Road section left to the 49 and 319. Reasons for it; King's Road still maintains a link to Piccadilly Circus and Shaftesbury Ave in place of the 19, South Kensington is still linked to the West End (19) Putney still linked to TCR etc (22) and Beaufort Street still linked to S Ken and Battersea Bridge (the link to Clapham Junction would be lost thou). Obviously the 414 would be renumbered 14 to keep the number in the Putney area. The 345 could then extend from Peckham somewhere else. I don’t agree with pulling the 345 back to Clapham Junction as that corridor is busy. I’ve long thought the 345 should be split into two routes - one from South Kensington to Brixton and one from Clapham Junction to Lewisham I was thinking more that TFL wanted the 49 cut from that that section but the 49 is arguably more unique in linking King's Road and Battersea to Kensington. As for a split of the 345 I'd imagine any extra money in that part of town will go on the Bakerloop. A route I'm not fully sure I agree with or it. |
|
|
|
Route 32
May 20, 2024 12:29:22 GMT
via mobile
Post by bk10mfe on May 20, 2024 12:29:22 GMT
I don’t agree with pulling the 345 back to Clapham Junction as that corridor is busy. I’ve long thought the 345 should be split into two routes - one from South Kensington to Brixton and one from Clapham Junction to Lewisham I was thinking more that TFL wanted the 49 cut from that that section but the 49 is arguably more unique in linking King's Road and Battersea to Kensington. As for a split of the 345 I'd imagine any extra money in that part of town will go on the Bakerloop. A route I'm not fully sure I agree with or it. I honestly didn’t see the point of extending the 49 to East Acton to replace the 72. Are the 7/70/283 sufficient on Du-Cane Road? If not I think the 306 could work, taking over the 72’s LOR after Hammersmith if that was to be withdrawn. The 218 could have a frequency increase (or alternatively become decked if you were to merge the 306 idea with the popular idea of sending the 218 to Wembley & cutting the 440 back). The 306 doesn’t really terminate in an attractive location. Regarding the Bakerloop service you could get rid of it if you swap the 21 & 453 termini. This does mean Lewisham would rely entirely on the 47 to get to London Bridge/City areas. |
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on May 20, 2024 13:12:42 GMT
I was thinking more that TFL wanted the 49 cut from that that section but the 49 is arguably more unique in linking King's Road and Battersea to Kensington. As for a split of the 345 I'd imagine any extra money in that part of town will go on the Bakerloop. A route I'm not fully sure I agree with or it. I honestly didn’t see the point of extending the 49 to East Acton to replace the 72. Are the 7/70/283 sufficient on Du-Cane Road? If not I think the 306 could work, taking over the 72’s LOR after Hammersmith if that was to be withdrawn. The 218 could have a frequency increase (or alternatively become decked if you were to merge the 306 idea with the popular idea of sending the 218 to Wembley & cutting the 440 back). The 306 doesn’t really terminate in an attractive location. Regarding the Bakerloop service you could get rid of it if you swap the 21 & 453 termini. This does mean Lewisham would rely entirely on the 47 to get to London Bridge/City areas. You could simply extend the 453 to Lewisham which has been proposed by a few people on here previously and would introduce the more direct Lewisham to Elephant link. Equally, you could also extend the 415 to Lewisham (ignoring whether it overbusses the corridor or not) which would be able to handle such an extension and would bring in more of the Old Kent Road to people living in Kennington and beyond as well. That way, any money earmarked for this Bakerloop service could be used elsewhere instead |
|
|
|
Post by southlondonbus on May 20, 2024 13:21:15 GMT
I honestly didn’t see the point of extending the 49 to East Acton to replace the 72. Are the 7/70/283 sufficient on Du-Cane Road? If not I think the 306 could work, taking over the 72’s LOR after Hammersmith if that was to be withdrawn. The 218 could have a frequency increase (or alternatively become decked if you were to merge the 306 idea with the popular idea of sending the 218 to Wembley & cutting the 440 back). The 306 doesn’t really terminate in an attractive location. Regarding the Bakerloop service you could get rid of it if you swap the 21 & 453 termini. This does mean Lewisham would rely entirely on the 47 to get to London Bridge/City areas. You could simply extend the 453 to Lewisham which has been proposed by a few people on here previously and would introduce the more direct Lewisham to Elephant link. Equally, you could also extend the 415 to Lewisham (ignoring whether it overbusses the corridor or not) which would be able to handle such an extension and would bring in more of the Old Kent Road to people living in Kennington and beyond as well. That way, any money earmarked for this Bakerloop service could be used elsewhere instead Totally agree. I can see the BL barely used for most the day as it will only serve about 5 stops then dump at Elephant to then have to change onto something else. Perhaps a first step might hsve alteast been a peak hour with the flow route (X53 if Khan was so intent on the SL idea). |
|
|
|
Route 32
May 20, 2024 16:58:44 GMT
via mobile
Post by matthieu1221 on May 20, 2024 16:58:44 GMT
Stand space seems to be greatly reduced under the Oxford Street scheme currently being worked on. Not too sure by how much in exact bus parking spaces but a lot of the stands will be moved and reduced in capacity. Holles Street for instance will be going entirely, and the replacement stand for the 73 and 55 on the east of Regent Street has me a bit miffed given how many buses usually stand on Holles Street currently. So there'll be less of a luxury of surplus stand spaces in the near future unfortunately. Does this still involve the 22 being pulled back to Conduit Street and the 7 being altered to not go round the block at Oxford Circus to stand? More or less. Nothing apart from through routes cross the Oxford Circus intersection in short. www.oxfordstreetprogramme.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/bus-map.pdf |
|
|
|
Route 32
May 20, 2024 17:03:54 GMT
via mobile
Post by matthieu1221 on May 20, 2024 17:03:54 GMT
Stand space seems to be greatly reduced under the Oxford Street scheme currently being worked on. Not too sure by how much in exact bus parking spaces but a lot of the stands will be moved and reduced in capacity. Holles Street for instance will be going entirely, and the replacement stand for the 73 and 55 on the east of Regent Street has me a bit miffed given how many buses usually stand on Holles Street currently. So there'll be less of a luxury of surplus stand spaces in the near future unfortunately. The stands at Vere Street also seem to have been removed. I did have a look at the new 55/73 stand by Mortimer Street and was also confused, it certainly isnt enough for the two and I do seem some 55s and 73s share the stand with the 12 before going back down towards Mortimer Street eastbound. It is a much quicker time effective change though so I do adovcate it, missing the Circus junction traffic lights and the roadwork ridden routing of Holles Street and Conduit Street. The 12 IMO could be moved to St John Princes Street with the 159, is that happening? Not sure whats going on for the 7 or 22 though, but the Vere street stand for the 22 is gone These three maps show the bus stands. I haven’t had a proper count of how many stands that makes in terms of bus capacity but maybe you can have a shot at it. See also my previous post just above, that link shows proposed stand location per route so you should be able to tell how much space each route gets. www.oxfordstreetprogramme.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/oxford-circus-traffic-scheme-maps.pdfwww.oxfordstreetprogramme.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/oxford-street-traffic-scheme-maps_reduced.pdfwww.oxfordstreetprogramme.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/marylebone-fitzrovia-plans.pdf |
|
|
|
Post by wirewiper on May 20, 2024 17:22:57 GMT
Also routes are to be rerouted so buses only go in a straight line across the junction, no turning from Oxford Street into Regent Street and vice-versa. This will allow the junction to be remodelled and more space dedicated to pedestrians, it will also allow for safer crossings. I realise this is a discussion about route 32 and it has gone completely off-piste! |
|
|
|
Post by matthieu1221 on May 20, 2024 17:29:10 GMT
Also routes are to be rerouted so buses only go in a straight line across the junction, no turning from Oxford Street into Regent Street and vice-versa. This will allow the junction to be remodelled and more space dedicated to pedestrians, it will also allow for safer crossings. I realise this is a discussion about route 32 and it has gone completely off-piste! It'll also be better than the current arrangement for traffic. There'll be 2 rather than 3 traffic light phases in a cycle (one of which is currently the long all pedestrian due to the scramble crossing which is also going). |
|
