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Post by greenboy on Jul 15, 2024 16:44:28 GMT
The "season ticket snobs" are probably paying a lot of money. It's not uncommon for peak hour trains out of London to not stop at the more local stations, or they are advertised as pick up only stops to avoid trains getting filled with short distance passengers, who have other options, to the detriment of those travelling further afield. The people at the inner London stations also pay for the service, so why can't they use it? Because there's probably not room and there are other options for local journeys. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 15, 2024 17:02:34 GMT
The people at the inner London stations also pay for the service, so why can't they use it? Because there's probably not room and there are other options for local journeys. There's plenty of room on them, they just don't like the aura of a crowded train which is the problem. Like I said it shouldn't matter where you get off or on, if you've paid your fare then you're entitled to the train and that's not anyone else's problem. If people want a cheaper fare then they really should move somewhere that has them. |
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Post by joefrombow on Jul 15, 2024 18:04:12 GMT
Because there's probably not room and there are other options for local journeys. There's plenty of room on them, they just don't like the aura of a crowded train which is the problem. Like I said it shouldn't matter where you get off or on, if you've paid your fare then you're entitled to the train and that's not anyone else's problem. If people want a cheaper fare then they really should move somewhere that has them. I see it from both sides I guess , but ultimately they need to put more short stopping services on to Laindon and then have fast services onwards stop there so people can change or have longer trains on the Grays/Tilbury peak services , and a complete rebuild or a second entrance built somewhere but with future growth etc especially with a lot of developments flying up around the area it's not a good look especially when they want people to use public transport Another outer London ( or just outside ) station that is similar I guess would be Shenfield having a small entrance/exit and a mixture of services stopping with 6 platforms but no doubt the usage figures would be no where near Barkings and the station platforms are well built not falling apart . |
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Post by greenboy on Jul 15, 2024 18:10:06 GMT
Because there's probably not room and there are other options for local journeys. There's plenty of room on them, they just don't like the aura of a crowded train which is the problem. Like I said it shouldn't matter where you get off or on, if you've paid your fare then you're entitled to the train and that's not anyone else's problem. If people want a cheaper fare then they really should move somewhere that has them. I don't know which particular trains you're referring too, I was just making a general point. For example there are trains from Liverpool Street that only call at Stratford to pick up, trains from Euston that only call at Watford Junction to pick up, trains from Paddington that only call at Reading to pick up and trains from Waterloo that only call at Woking to pick and there are probably many other examples as well. All done to prevent long distance trains getting packed out with short distance passengers who have other options. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 15, 2024 18:14:18 GMT
There's plenty of room on them, they just don't like the aura of a crowded train which is the problem. Like I said it shouldn't matter where you get off or on, if you've paid your fare then you're entitled to the train and that's not anyone else's problem. If people want a cheaper fare then they really should move somewhere that has them. I don't know which particular trains you're referring too, I was just making a general point. For example there are trains from Liverpool Street that only call at Stratford to pick up, trains from Euston that only call at Watford Junction to pick up, trains from Paddington that only call at Reading to pick up and trains from Waterloo that only call at Woking to pick and there are probably many other examples as well. All done to prevent long distance trains getting packed out with short distance passengers who have other options. However c2c in their nature are a Metro style service, and also don't have fast lines for trains to overtake each other on. For a train to skip Barking it requires the gap ahead of it to cater for it as there could very well be an all stopper in front of it. A simple case of all trains stopping at all stations would make the most sense for the vast majority of its users. If you stop all trains at Barking then it should lead to reduced overcrowding overall. |
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Post by route53 on Aug 6, 2024 5:59:05 GMT
West Hampstead sort of is a hub station, even though it’s three stations meters apart, West Hampstead tube which is served by the Jubilee line, West Hampstead which has the Overground to Clapham, Richmond & Stratford, and West Hampstead Thameslink which obviously has the Thameslink
I’ll even add Woolwich Arsenal/Woolwich Crossrail stations, 500 meters apart, Woolwich has the SE and DLR, Woolwich CrossRail has the Elizabeth line
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Post by thekbq14 on Aug 8, 2024 15:24:28 GMT
West Hampstead sort of is a hub station, even though it’s three stations meters apart, West Hampstead tube which is served by the Jubilee line, West Hampstead which has the Overground to Clapham, Richmond & Stratford, and West Hampstead Thameslink which obviously has the Thameslink I’ll even add Woolwich Arsenal/Woolwich Crossrail stations, 500 meters apart, Woolwich has the SE and DLR, Woolwich CrossRail has the Elizabeth line I think this deffo counts as one, Chiltern Railways even planned to join in the fun and wanted to merge all the stations together, but for the work that needed to be done and the amount it would've costed it made sense to keep it as how it is. |
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Post by thekbq14 on Aug 8, 2024 15:32:13 GMT
Wonder what counts between Hub and Interchange as I'm guessing size? Plus does connection to NR matter. I've gone for 3 or more interchanges of LOR or Operators. But I think the majority of below are more major interchanges then hubs.
All those that haven't been mentioned that I could argue:
Zone 2
Denmark Hill - Overground, Thameslink, SE (However doesn't pass the Cat B test)
Peckham Rye - Southern, SE, Overground (However doesn't pass the Cat B test)
Hackney Central/Hackney Downs - All located on the overground but direct services to Enfield, Cheshunt, Chingford and Stratford (However doesn't pass the Cat B test)
New Cross/New Cross Gate - Although a 10 min walk from each other SE, Southern and Overground trains. If magically merged could be SE London equivalent of Clapham Junction (However doesn't pass the Cat B test)
Same would be the case with the Shepherds Bush area (Central line, Overground, Southern, Circle and Hammersmith & City) all serving nearby to one another in walkable distance from Westfield London.
I would've also pushed the whole Queenstown Road/Battersea Park/Battersea Power Station interchange but trains are coming from the same direction as CLJ apart from added Northern line trains and big walking distance.
Zone 2/3
Canary Wharf - DLR, Jubilee and Elizabeth lines (However all of these are a bit of a walk away from one another but are still advertised as interchanges)
Lewisham - DLR and SE (Via Catford Bridge or Hither Green or Blackheath) (However doesn't pass the Cat B test)
Zone 3
Ealing Broadway - Central, District and Elizabeth lines (Also located on GWML too but with no GWR trains) (However doesn't pass the Cat B test)
Walthamstow Central/Walthamstow Queens Road - Victoria line/Overground (Lea Valley and Goblin line) (However doesn't pass the Cat B test)
Zone 4
Beckenham Junction - Tram, SE and Southern (However doesn't pass the Cat B test)
Zone 5
Sutton - Thameslink and Southern (Via Mitcham Junction or West Croydon) (However doesn't pass the Cat B test)
Zone 6
Orpington (and technically Petts Wood by default) - Thameslink and SE (Via Brixton or Lewisham) (However doesn't pass the Cat B test)
Heathrow would have also been a good example with (Elizabeth line, Piccadilly and Heathrow express), however all of these trains terminate there with no through services.
Not in London (But in Oyster/Contactless Zones)
Watford Junction - LNWR, Avanti, Overground and Southern - (In this case Harrow & Wealdstone and Wembley Central can work too but trains coming in the same direction)
Reading - GWR, SWR, Elizabeth line
Gatwick Airport - Southern, Thameslink, Gatwick Express and GWR
Epsom - SWR and Southern (Via Mitcham Junction or West Croydon) (However doesn't pass the Cat B test)
Dartford - Thameslink and SE (Via Crayford, Slade Green and Barnehurst) (However doesn't pass the Cat B test)
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Post by thekbq14 on Aug 8, 2024 15:35:27 GMT
I don't know which particular trains you're referring too, I was just making a general point. For example there are trains from Liverpool Street that only call at Stratford to pick up, trains from Euston that only call at Watford Junction to pick up, trains from Paddington that only call at Reading to pick up and trains from Waterloo that only call at Woking to pick and there are probably many other examples as well. All done to prevent long distance trains getting packed out with short distance passengers who have other options. However c2c in their nature are a Metro style service, and also don't have fast lines for trains to overtake each other on. For a train to skip Barking it requires the gap ahead of it to cater for it as there could very well be an all stopper in front of it. A simple case of all trains stopping at all stations would make the most sense for the vast majority of its users. If you stop all trains at Barking then it should lead to reduced overcrowding overall. This is very true remember this was something c2c looked back at the past and passengers from Essex complained about however was not feasible due to the limited amount of paths available to allow trains to overtake and provide a fast service. |
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Post by ADH45258 on Aug 8, 2024 16:09:24 GMT
However c2c in their nature are a Metro style service, and also don't have fast lines for trains to overtake each other on. For a train to skip Barking it requires the gap ahead of it to cater for it as there could very well be an all stopper in front of it. A simple case of all trains stopping at all stations would make the most sense for the vast majority of its users. If you stop all trains at Barking then it should lead to reduced overcrowding overall. This is very true remember this was something c2c looked back at the past and passengers from Essex complained about however was not feasible due to the limited amount of paths available to allow trains to overtake and provide a fast service. I think what could be useful for the C2C network is if a new station were to be constructed in the Purfleet/Aveley area, with direct interchange to Southeastern HS1 services. This would give passengers from the Southend direction the option to change at that new station for a faster service to Stratford and St Pancras. Also some new journey opportunities if avoiding London, travelling between Essex and Kent. I also think the Overground 'Liberty line' should be extended from Upminster (requiring a connecting track to be added), to go via Ockendon to Grays, also calling at this new station. Then allowing passengers from the Great Eastern Main Line to go south to Kent avoiding London. |
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Post by ThinLizzy on Aug 9, 2024 0:18:05 GMT
This is very true remember this was something c2c looked back at the past and passengers from Essex complained about however was not feasible due to the limited amount of paths available to allow trains to overtake and provide a fast service. I think what could be useful for the C2C network is if a new station were to be constructed in the Purfleet/Aveley area, with direct interchange to Southeastern HS1 services. This would give passengers from the Southend direction the option to change at that new station for a faster service to Stratford and St Pancras. Also some new journey opportunities if avoiding London, travelling between Essex and Kent. I also think the Overground 'Liberty line' should be extended from Upminster (requiring a connecting track to be added), to go via Ockendon to Grays, also calling at this new station. Then allowing passengers from the Great Eastern Main Line to go south to Kent avoiding London. You would need to build a flyover in a very limited amount of space to connect the Romford to Upminster line to the Upminster c2c lines. It also wouldn't be possible for this to serve a "new" station between Purfleet and Rainham. |
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Post by route53 on Aug 11, 2024 17:32:22 GMT
Apologies for the long upcoming post, these are my list of major and hub stations, I’ve included E&C & Vauxhall as they’re both zones 1 and 2 and not strictly solely zone 1.
ZONE 1/2:
Elephant & Castle (Thameslink, SE, Bakerloo and Northern lines)
Vauxhall (SWR, Victoria line)
ZONE 2:
Clapham Junction (SWR, Southern, LO)
Denmark Hill (Southeastern, Thameslink, LO)
New Cross/New Cross Gate (Southern, SE, LO)
Canada Water (LO, Jubilee line)
Canary Wharf hub (DLR, Jubilee and Elizabeth lines)
Whitechapel (Ham&City, District, Elizabeth lines and LO)
Hackney Central/Hackney Downs (LO lines, Greater Anglia to Hertford East)
Highbury & Islington (LO, Great Northern, Victoria Line)
Finsbury Park (Thameslink, GN, Victoria and Piccadilly lines)
West Hampstead hub (W Ham - Jubilee, W Ham Overground - LO, West Hampstead Thameslink - Thameslink)
ZONE 2/3:
Lewisham (SE lines to Dartford, Gravesend, Hayes and Sevenoaks, DLR)
Stratford/Stratford Highspeed hub (DLR, Jubilee, Central, Elizabeth, LO, Greater Anglia, SE Highspeed, occasional C2C)
Willesden Junction (LO lines, Bakerloo line)
ZONE 3:
Putney/East Putney hub(SWR lines to Reading & Windsor, and local lines, District line)
Wimbledon (SWR, Thameslink, Tram, District line)
Ealing Broadway (GWR to Didcot, Elizabeth, Central and District lines)
Crystal Palace (LO, Southern to multiple lines)
West Ham (District, Hammersmith & City, and Jubilee lines, DLR, C2C
London City Airport (DLR and the airport)
Tottenham Hale (Greater Anglia to Hertford and Cambridge, Victoria line)
ZONE 4:
Woolwich Arsenal/Woolwich hub(SE, Thameslink, DLR, Elizabeth line)
Beckenham Junction (SE, Southern, Tram)
Norwood Junction (Southern, Thameslink, LO)
Barking (C2C, LO, District and Hammersmith & City lines)
Richmond (LO, SWR, District line)
Abbey Wood (SE, Thameslink, Elizabeth line)
Wembley Park (Jubilee and Metropolitan lines)
Zone 5:
Bromley South (SE mainline and metro, Thameslink)
East Croydon (Tram, Southern and Thameslink)
West Croydon (Tram, Southern and LO)
Harrow on the Hill (Metropolitan line and Chiltern)
Harrow & Wealdstone (Bakerloo, LO, London Northwestern, Southern)
Sutton (Thameslink, Southern)
ZONE 6:
Romford (Greater Anglia, Elizabeth line, LO)
Upminster (C2C, District Line, LO)
Orpington (SE, Thameslink)
Heathrow Airport (Piccadilly line, Elizabeth line, Heathrow Express)
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