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Post by vjaska on Nov 24, 2023 17:30:39 GMT
Are Hybrid buses still made for outside of London? Operators outside London don’t purchase hybrids, they purchase mainly diesels with a small sprinkle of electrics. Hybrids didn’t catch on because the savings were extremely minimal and many were actually converted to diesel instead
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Post by VWH1413 on Nov 24, 2023 19:27:18 GMT
Are Hybrid buses still made for outside of London? As said hybrid buses aren’t worth it outside London and city centres. Even more so in rural areas where is little usage of stop/start electric mode. Probably easier said than done also converting to diesel. That saying, there are still brand new E40D/Enviro400MMC being built with ability to engine stop/start at standstill.
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Post by gwiwer on Nov 24, 2023 22:41:46 GMT
Stop-start is a PITA. I'm not convinced it reduces emissions. It might reduce traffic noise but which is more disturbing - a constant tickover or a stop-start? Answers will vary. Most drivers I have encountered manage the technology by keeping light pressure on the loud pedal when stopped. that pulls against the brakes somewhat so isn't good practice but does remove the very annoying (for some) stop-start and the slightly delayed pick up and pull away.
I will admit to having done the same with a van which i wasn't pre-warned had stop-start fitted. I thought "How the **** did I stall that?" until I tried the start button and found it was still "started". That goes along with those wretched electronic parking brakes where you can't be sure it is applied; critical when you stop anywhere that isn't dead-flat.
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Post by yunus on Nov 25, 2023 0:19:55 GMT
Stop-start is a PITA. I'm not convinced it reduces emissions. It might reduce traffic noise but which is more disturbing - a constant tickover or a stop-start? Answers will vary. Most drivers I have encountered manage the technology by keeping light pressure on the loud pedal when stopped. that pulls against the brakes somewhat so isn't good practice but does remove the very annoying (for some) stop-start and the slightly delayed pick up and pull away. I will admit to having done the same with a van which i wasn't pre-warned had stop-start fitted. I thought "How the **** did I stall that?" until I tried the start button and found it was still "started". That goes along with those wretched electronic parking brakes where you can't be sure it is applied; critical when you stop anywhere that isn't dead-flat. I have made posts regarding this many times - my own opinion is that even Hybrid/Electric vehicles do not reduce emissions. It is simply polluting in other ways. Continued lies from the govt and people in power. Until someone can proof that these called greener vehicles are truly green, I will not believe it.
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Post by vjaska on Nov 25, 2023 0:57:11 GMT
Stop-start is a PITA. I'm not convinced it reduces emissions. It might reduce traffic noise but which is more disturbing - a constant tickover or a stop-start? Answers will vary. Most drivers I have encountered manage the technology by keeping light pressure on the loud pedal when stopped. that pulls against the brakes somewhat so isn't good practice but does remove the very annoying (for some) stop-start and the slightly delayed pick up and pull away. I will admit to having done the same with a van which i wasn't pre-warned had stop-start fitted. I thought "How the **** did I stall that?" until I tried the start button and found it was still "started". That goes along with those wretched electronic parking brakes where you can't be sure it is applied; critical when you stop anywhere that isn't dead-flat. I have made posts regarding this many times - my own opinion is that even Hybrid/Electric vehicles do not reduce emissions. It is simply polluting in other ways. Continued lies from the govt and people in power. Until someone can proof that these called greener vehicles are truly green, I will not believe it. There is a difference between greener vehicles which both electric and hybrid are in comparison to diesel vehicles (the gap between hybrid and diesel is much smaller than gap between diesel and electric) and 100% emission free. People aren't wrong when they say they are cleaner so no, not all of it is continued lies but some of it is misleading
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Post by Alexis on Nov 26, 2023 10:47:39 GMT
Just wondering what's the fastest you've been on a bus. Mine is about 45mph on the 203s MCL30307. One time I was on an E400 on the 296 and the driver got up to about 60mph on the A12
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Post by gwiwer on Nov 26, 2023 11:24:58 GMT
Just wondering what's the fastest you've been on a bus. Mine is about 45mph on the 203s MCL30307. One time I was on an E400 on the 296 and the driver got up to about 60mph on the A12 "About" being the critical word here. I doubt there is space between roundabouts / lights for any large vehicle to reach 60mph and traffic conditions seldom permit that anyway. A bus working an all-stops local service would get nowhere near to 60mph if the driver was professional enough to anticipate passengers waiting at the next few stops.
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Post by enviro498 on Nov 26, 2023 11:34:33 GMT
One time I was on an E400 on the 296 and the driver got up to about 60mph on the A12 "About" being the critical word here. I doubt there is space between roundabouts / lights for any large vehicle to reach 60mph and traffic conditions seldom permit that anyway. A bus working an all-stops local service would get nowhere near to 60mph if the driver was professional enough to anticipate passengers waiting at the next few stops. On the 66/296 there is a straight section of the A12 around one mile long (between Whalebone Lane and Mawney Road junctions) with no bus stops or traffic lights, so it would be entirely possible to reach 60mph when traffic conditions permit it.
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Post by surab21 on Nov 26, 2023 12:56:23 GMT
I remember the 292 from Stirling Corner to Apex hitting 60 back in the Plaxton President/OmniDekka days, it's a roughly 1 mile stretch with a slight downhill, passing a couple of the least used bus stops in London (no speed cam on the southbound, so the drivers could floor it!).
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Post by TB123 on Nov 26, 2023 15:13:40 GMT
Just wondering what's the fastest you've been on a bus. Mine is about 45mph on the 203s MCL30307. Fastest I've done is a shade under 70 on a E400, Euro 5 ZF gearbox, that was non TfL and downhill I've also done 65 on a similar spec TfL vehicle. Both cases in legal environments on a motorway (though 70mph dual carriageway wouldn't count) where 70 mph is the max permitted speed for a bus shorter than 12m.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Nov 27, 2023 0:33:23 GMT
"About" being the critical word here. I doubt there is space between roundabouts / lights for any large vehicle to reach 60mph and traffic conditions seldom permit that anyway. A bus working an all-stops local service would get nowhere near to 60mph if the driver was professional enough to anticipate passengers waiting at the next few stops. On the 66/296 there is a straight section of the A12 around one mile long (between Whalebone Lane and Mawney Road junctions) with no bus stops or traffic lights, so it would be entirely possible to reach 60mph when traffic conditions permit it. Easily done, especially on that downhill towards Romford. It was achievable on the 34's with DLA's on the A406 on the bit between Billet Roundabout, especially if no one was at the very minor stops or no one wanted to get off. The same goes for the 102 and 34 after Melville Gardens between Palmers Green and Cambridge roundabout. Back in the early 90's I regularly remember watching the speedo's on the Olympians on the 123 after Waterworks corner to Gates Corner and they used to hit over 50mph. Dennis Dominators were slow and hardly made any speed.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Nov 27, 2023 0:41:02 GMT
Stop-start is a PITA. I'm not convinced it reduces emissions. It might reduce traffic noise but which is more disturbing - a constant tickover or a stop-start? Answers will vary. Most drivers I have encountered manage the technology by keeping light pressure on the loud pedal when stopped. that pulls against the brakes somewhat so isn't good practice but does remove the very annoying (for some) stop-start and the slightly delayed pick up and pull away. I will admit to having done the same with a van which i wasn't pre-warned had stop-start fitted. I thought "How the **** did I stall that?" until I tried the start button and found it was still "started". That goes along with those wretched electronic parking brakes where you can't be sure it is applied; critical when you stop anywhere that isn't dead-flat. I think you are confusing the way stop start performs in a van/car and a bus; totally different. Even still I have heard people moan about it in a car, but then they would have auto hold on the electronic parking brake. This then gives that delay you mention when pulling away. Standard stop/start without having any auto hold engaged is no different to a car idling at the lights then putting it into gear then driving off. It obviously would reduce emissions, as you would be surprised how much you burn when idling an engine at the lights.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Nov 27, 2023 0:48:35 GMT
Just wondering what's the fastest you've been on a bus. Mine is about 45mph on the 203s MCL30307. Fastest I've done is a shade under 70 on a E400, Euro 5 ZF gearbox, that was non TfL and downhill I've also done 65 on a similar spec TfL vehicle. Both cases in legal environments on a motorway (though 70mph dual carriageway wouldn't count) where 70 mph is the max permitted speed for a bus shorter than 12m. I have hit 76mph but I definately would NOT recommend it. For a start the tyres were not rated to that speed so you can feel extra vibration and shaking through the tyres and steering wheel. The bus was a euro 2 engined Trident with ZF 5 speed gearbox
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Post by gwiwer on Nov 27, 2023 11:09:05 GMT
By contrast I recall a few trips on the 215 that was a Kingston - Cobham or Ripley route and had free rein on the A3 beyond Esher. 1952-built vehicles, from an age when 30mph was the maximum permitted speed for buses in most cases, could reach the mid 40s. We thought that was very daring at the time for a "London" red bus.
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Post by Alexis on Nov 27, 2023 15:53:12 GMT
"About" being the critical word here. I doubt there is space between roundabouts / lights for any large vehicle to reach 60mph and traffic conditions seldom permit that anyway. A bus working an all-stops local service would get nowhere near to 60mph if the driver was professional enough to anticipate passengers waiting at the next few stops. On the 66/296 there is a straight section of the A12 around one mile long (between Whalebone Lane and Mawney Road junctions) with no bus stops or traffic lights, so it would be entirely possible to reach 60mph when traffic conditions permit it. That is indeed the section that it was on, on a late night trip with almost no traffic.
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