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Post by Alex on Apr 22, 2020 20:22:57 GMT
Just a weird question. Is there a chronological list anywhere of all TFL bus routes starting from most busiest to least busiest? The reports are here: tfl.gov.uk/corporate/publications-and-reports/buses-performance-data#on-this-page-3And the bus spreadsheet is four documents down. Thing is, it won’t be up to the minute recent (it’s always for the year before) and to sort busiest to least busiest you’ll have to select the lot then use a custom sort of the column with the passenger numbers. Hope that’s the sort of thing you were after : ) EDIT: I wouldn’t say it was a weird question - there’s been loads of chats on here about passenger numbers and trends.
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Post by rj131 on Apr 26, 2020 14:12:02 GMT
Appealing to people who may be from the area with local knowledge. In the 2000’s (towards the late 2000s especially) what made the Ealing routes so intensely competitive? E1 - Five bids in 2008 Tender (Four in 2013 Tender) E2 - Five bids in 2008 Tender (Three in 2015 Tender) E3 - Four bids in 2008 Tender (Three in 2013/18 Tender) E5 - SIX bids in 2008 Tender (Four in 2015 Tender) E6 - SIX bids in 2006 Tender, Five in 2011 (Three in 2016) E7 - SIX bids in 2008 Tender (Four in 2015 Tender) E8 - Five bids in 2008 Tender (Four in 2015 Tender) E9 - Five bids in 2008 Tender (Three in 2015 Tender) E10 - SEVEN bids in 2008 Tender, Five in 2013 (Three in 2018) E11 - SIX bids in 2006 Tender (Two in 2011, Three in 2018) It seems the intense competition has now passed on from West London (Ealing Broadway) to East London (Stratford/Walthamstow), it seems there are less operators there now than before. I was looking at the E routes as First managed to hold onto loads of them for ages so I was looking at why that might have been and why when First left nearly all of the E routes dispersed, but I got quite the shock seeing just how much competition there actually was, yet First still managed to hold onto loads of them and fight everyone off. It’s actually amazing how they did it, perhaps it was bargain basement bidding for these routes which may have been a contributing factor to their demise in London. I ask as I’m not too familiar with the area which is why I ask, why was competition so fierce back then but not now? The only defunct operators I know of are Armchair and First which eventually all become Metroline. But seven bids for the E10? Jheeez Thanks in advance for your knowledge
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Post by SILENCED on Apr 26, 2020 14:19:40 GMT
Appealing to people who may be from the area with local knowledge. In the 2000’s (towards the late 2000s especially) what made the Ealing routes so intensely competitive? E1 - Five bids in 2008 Tender (Four in 2013 Tender) E2 - Five bids in 2008 Tender (Three in 2015 Tender) E3 - Four bids in 2008 Tender (Three in 2013/18 Tender) E5 - SIX bids in 2008 Tender (Four in 2015 Tender) E6 - SIX bids in 2006 Tender, Five in 2011 (Three in 2016) E7 - SIX bids in 2008 Tender (Four in 2015 Tender) E8 - Five bids in 2008 Tender (Four in 2015 Tender) E9 - Five bids in 2008 Tender (Three in 2015 Tender) E10 - SEVEN bids in 2008 Tender, Five in 2013 (Three in 2018) E11 - SIX bids in 2006 Tender (Two in 2011, Three in 2018) It seems the intense competition has now passed on from West London (Ealing Broadway) to East London (Stratford/Walthamstow), it seems there are less operators there now than before. I was looking at the E routes as First managed to hold onto loads of them for ages so I was looking at why that might have been and why when First left nearly all of the E routes dispersed, but I got quite the shock seeing just how much competition there actually was, yet First still managed to hold onto loads of them and fight everyone off. It’s actually amazing how they did it, perhaps it was bargain basement bidding for these routes which may have been a contributing factor to their demise in London. I ask as I’m not too familiar with the area which is why I ask, why was competition so fierce back then but not now? The only defunct operators I know of are Armchair and First which eventually all become Metroline. But seven bids for the E10? Jheeez Thanks in advance for your knowledge NCP ... had ECT demised by then, I think they probably did. Just checked a unofficial source that ECT last ran bus services in March 2009 ... so probably one of the bidders.
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Post by vjaska on Apr 26, 2020 14:36:41 GMT
Appealing to people who may be from the area with local knowledge. In the 2000’s (towards the late 2000s especially) what made the Ealing routes so intensely competitive? E1 - Five bids in 2008 Tender (Four in 2013 Tender) E2 - Five bids in 2008 Tender (Three in 2015 Tender) E3 - Four bids in 2008 Tender (Three in 2013/18 Tender) E5 - SIX bids in 2008 Tender (Four in 2015 Tender) E6 - SIX bids in 2006 Tender, Five in 2011 (Three in 2016) E7 - SIX bids in 2008 Tender (Four in 2015 Tender) E8 - Five bids in 2008 Tender (Four in 2015 Tender) E9 - Five bids in 2008 Tender (Three in 2015 Tender) E10 - SEVEN bids in 2008 Tender, Five in 2013 (Three in 2018) E11 - SIX bids in 2006 Tender (Two in 2011, Three in 2018) It seems the intense competition has now passed on from West London (Ealing Broadway) to East London (Stratford/Walthamstow), it seems there are less operators there now than before. I was looking at the E routes as First managed to hold onto loads of them for ages so I was looking at why that might have been and why when First left nearly all of the E routes dispersed, but I got quite the shock seeing just how much competition there actually was, yet First still managed to hold onto loads of them and fight everyone off. It’s actually amazing how they did it, perhaps it was bargain basement bidding for these routes which may have been a contributing factor to their demise in London. I ask as I’m not too familiar with the area which is why I ask, why was competition so fierce back then but not now? The only defunct operators I know of are Armchair and First which eventually all become Metroline. But seven bids for the E10? Jheeez Thanks in advance for your knowledge NCP Challenger/NSL ran the E11 so presumably were one of these bidders whilst ECT (Ealing Community Travel) ran the 195 so presumably dipped their hand in as well. Armchair & Thorpes had already become part of Metroline by then IIRC so I’d imagine so new to TfL bidders may be involved. So for example, I’d guess the E10 bidders were Transdev, First, Metroline, Travel London, NCP, possibly ECT & then an unknown bidder
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Post by rj131 on Apr 26, 2020 14:43:00 GMT
Appealing to people who may be from the area with local knowledge. In the 2000’s (towards the late 2000s especially) what made the Ealing routes so intensely competitive? E1 - Five bids in 2008 Tender (Four in 2013 Tender) E2 - Five bids in 2008 Tender (Three in 2015 Tender) E3 - Four bids in 2008 Tender (Three in 2013/18 Tender) E5 - SIX bids in 2008 Tender (Four in 2015 Tender) E6 - SIX bids in 2006 Tender, Five in 2011 (Three in 2016) E7 - SIX bids in 2008 Tender (Four in 2015 Tender) E8 - Five bids in 2008 Tender (Four in 2015 Tender) E9 - Five bids in 2008 Tender (Three in 2015 Tender) E10 - SEVEN bids in 2008 Tender, Five in 2013 (Three in 2018) E11 - SIX bids in 2006 Tender (Two in 2011, Three in 2018) It seems the intense competition has now passed on from West London (Ealing Broadway) to East London (Stratford/Walthamstow), it seems there are less operators there now than before. I was looking at the E routes as First managed to hold onto loads of them for ages so I was looking at why that might have been and why when First left nearly all of the E routes dispersed, but I got quite the shock seeing just how much competition there actually was, yet First still managed to hold onto loads of them and fight everyone off. It’s actually amazing how they did it, perhaps it was bargain basement bidding for these routes which may have been a contributing factor to their demise in London. I ask as I’m not too familiar with the area which is why I ask, why was competition so fierce back then but not now? The only defunct operators I know of are Armchair and First which eventually all become Metroline. But seven bids for the E10? Jheeez Thanks in advance for your knowledge NCP Challenger/NSL ran the E11 so presumably were one of these bidders whilst ECT (Ealing Community Travel) ran the 195 so presumably dipped their hand in as well. Armchair & Thorpes had already become part of Metroline by then IIRC so I’d imagine so new to TfL bidders may be involved. So for example, I’d guess the E10 bidders were Transdev, First, Metroline, Travel London, NCP, possibly ECT & then an unknown bidder Ahhhhh, could Tellings Golden Miller have been the seventh? I initially wondered if it could have been Arriva as they had the E10 but then realised it was actually TGM restructuring to Arriva, I forgot about those until I just looked at the E10 now lol
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Post by SILENCED on Apr 26, 2020 14:48:25 GMT
NCP Challenger/NSL ran the E11 so presumably were one of these bidders whilst ECT (Ealing Community Travel) ran the 195 so presumably dipped their hand in as well. Armchair & Thorpes had already become part of Metroline by then IIRC so I’d imagine so new to TfL bidders may be involved. So for example, I’d guess the E10 bidders were Transdev, First, Metroline, Travel London, NCP, possibly ECT & then an unknown bidder Ahhhhh, could Tellings Golden Miller have been the seventh? I initially wondered if it could have been Arriva as they had the E10 but then realised it was actually TGM restructuring to Arriva, I forgot about those until I just looked at the E10 now lol TGM was Travel London by that date
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Post by redexpress on Apr 26, 2020 20:45:08 GMT
Ahhhhh, could Tellings Golden Miller have been the seventh? I initially wondered if it could have been Arriva as they had the E10 but then realised it was actually TGM restructuring to Arriva, I forgot about those until I just looked at the E10 now lol TGM was Travel London by that date TGM's bus operations had indeed been acquired by NatExp and absorbed into Travel London in 2005, but TGM continued to exist as an independent operator and were bought out by Arriva in late 2007. No idea if (under Arriva) they were already trying to go for TfL tenders as early as 2008.
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Post by galwhv69 on Apr 26, 2020 22:34:29 GMT
What is the longest distance between curtailment points on a route?
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Post by Alex on Apr 26, 2020 22:52:48 GMT
What is the longest distance between curtailment points on a route? Do you mean the gap between curtailments as the route goes along, or the longest a bus has to travel to get back to route after it's been curtailed? I know on the 330 the Plaistow turn is about 1 mile which is quite a chunk as the whole route is 3.5 miles! Some low frequency routes have no curtailment points at all, don't know if this counts.
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Post by galwhv69 on Apr 26, 2020 23:05:40 GMT
What is the longest distance between curtailment points on a route? Do you mean the gap between curtailments as the route goes along, or the longest a bus has to travel to get back to route after it's been curtailed? I know on the 330 the Plaistow turn is about 1 mile which is quite a chunk as the whole route is 3.5 miles! Some low frequency routes have no curtailment points at all, don't know if this counts. Meant the gap between them I know some don't have any at all so what would be the longest of those routes with no curtailment points?
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Post by Alex on Apr 26, 2020 23:26:31 GMT
Meant the gap between them I know some don't have any at all so what would be the longest of those routes with no curtailment points? I wouldn't know (though I guess some people might ) but having a look here and there, the distance between the Chessington World of Adventures point and Dorking South Street point on the 465 looks long at around 10.5 miles. Might be a contender?
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Post by M1104 on Apr 27, 2020 0:15:45 GMT
What is the longest distance between curtailment points on a route? 405 perhaps? Bearing in mind I do not know where the curtailment point is prior to Redhill.
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Post by Alex on Apr 27, 2020 0:23:03 GMT
405 perhaps? Bearing in mind I do not know where the curtailment point is prior to Redhill. Having a look at that, the stands are: Redhill, Hooley (from WC only), Coulsdon, Purley Whytecliffe Road, Purley Colonnades, South Croydon and West Croydon. In the case of this and the 465, I will point out I got this info from the 'stands' section on the Ian Armstrong site so in the meantime things might have changed..... There was a way you could get into the current official TfL tender spec documents for each route with the total mileage, between stop mileage, specification (including first/last buses, pinch points, frequencies etc) and most importantly for this thread route description and curtailment points but it's escaping me at the moment....
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Post by YY13VKP on Apr 27, 2020 0:27:45 GMT
405 perhaps? Bearing in mind I do not know where the curtailment point is prior to Redhill. Having a look at that, the stands are: Redhill, Hooley (from WC only), Coulsdon, Purley Whytecliffe Road, Purley Colonnades, South Croydon and West Croydon. In the case of this and the 465, I will point out I got this info from the 'stands' section on the Ian Armstrong site so in the meantime things might have changed..... It’s pretty much correct. Hooley is the nearest curtailment point to Redhill on the 405 which isn’t far away, although I personally would have listed Merstham station as one. I really don’t know why Purley Way Collonades is listed as a curtailment point since the 405 goes nowhere near there, it’s listed on the 2013 smartblinds I have but not on any others so it’s an odd one really
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Post by kmkcheng on Apr 27, 2020 0:28:01 GMT
405 perhaps? Bearing in mind I do not know where the curtailment point is prior to Redhill. Having a look at that, the stands are: Redhill, Hooley (from WC only), Coulsdon, Purley Whytecliffe Road, Purley Colonnades, South Croydon and West Croydon. In the case of this and the 465, I will point out I got this info from the 'stands' section on the Ian Armstrong site so in the meantime things might have changed..... There was a way you could get into the current official TfL tender spec documents for each route with the total mileage, between stop mileage, specification (including first/last buses, pinch points, frequencies etc) and most importantly for this thread route description and curtailment points but it's escaping me at the moment.... For some reason, those documents on his site doesn’t list every possible curtailment point. For the 465, I would have thought Dorking station and Leatherhead would have been curtailment points as well.
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