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Post by ADH45258 on Feb 22, 2021 17:01:39 GMT
Thats a shame. Last time to see a DOE on the 164. Although the 164 saw plenty of DDs it may be to that the DD conversion is planned to go ahead and that on paper there would not be any SDs at A for it. I thought only the 80 is planned for double deckers as part of the Sutton/Croydon consultation and not the 164. Perhaps the 80 might convert to DDs early, to release SEs to the 413? Maybe the vehicles currently used on the 200 could move to A once the Metrodeckers are in service?
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Post by wirewiper on Feb 22, 2021 17:02:14 GMT
Has the 456 been put on the tender for March 13th? The contract for the W10 runs until February 2023 (it had a two-year extension) so I presume Go-Ahead will operate the 456 as a variation of the W10 contract. EDIT: TB123 has explained above that the 456 will operate under its own new 5-year contract from its start date. tangytango.proboards.com/post/621643
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Post by M1104 on Feb 22, 2021 17:11:32 GMT
It's been reported that Sutton will cease Sunday operation of the 164 from March 6th. Assuming the rest of the Sunday allocation will go to AL. Indeed so
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Post by dashing0ne on Feb 22, 2021 17:15:58 GMT
How come do the Virtual Electric buses on the 69 run mostly on electricity? They don't anymore. They run in normal hybrid mode. Previously they operated in diesel-eletric in less polluted areas, the diesel generator charging the battery, and then ran in more polluted areas in full electric, using GPS geofencing to detect whcih area If you listen to this video filmed 3 days ago (I know people not following lockdown oh well) but the point is in this video you hear the Virtual Electric running mostly on electricity with a few subtle diesel kicks: www.youtube.com/watch?v=0W3thbwd0TY&t=166s.
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Post by dashing0ne on Feb 22, 2021 17:17:07 GMT
Assuming the rest of the Sunday allocation will go to AL. Indeed so Will the 80 convert to DD's on the same day? If yes which buses will it use?
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Post by wirewiper on Feb 22, 2021 17:22:34 GMT
They don't anymore. They run in normal hybrid mode. Previously they operated in diesel-eletric in less polluted areas, the diesel generator charging the battery, and then ran in more polluted areas in full electric, using GPS geofencing to detect whcih area If you listen to this video filmed 3 days ago (I know people not following lockdown oh well) but the point is in this video you hear the Virtual Electric running mostly on electricity with a few subtle diesel kicks: www.youtube.com/watch?v=0W3thbwd0TY&t=166s. The drive is electric, but the power is generated by the on-board diesel engine. The idea of the experiment was for the bus to undergo "opportunity charging" at the terminals (route 69 was chosen as at both terminals the vehicles stands in a TfL bus station) and only use the diesel engine as a back-up - it was hoped that the vehicle would operate in pure-electric mode up to 80% of the time. The opportunity charging was discontinued some time ago and the technology is unlikely to have a future in London as full-size electric double-deckers are now viable. It was part of the ZeEUS project: zeeus.eu/
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Post by dashing0ne on Feb 22, 2021 17:25:12 GMT
They have conductive plates at both terminuses to recharge the bus I believe, but it could be it uses 2 systems to maximise the battery power. The 69 buses have not operated as electric buses for a number of years now so it's clear that they won't be going down that route. As for the X26, it may be a special case scenario where the WVL's are retained especially seeing as a lot of money was spent adapting them with luggage racks & single door conversion. The problem is TfL aims to have a Zero-Emission fleet by 2030. The WVL's are obviously not ZE. If contracts are going to be a solid 7 years from April 2022 then TfL is risking not meeting its goal. You may think about converting mid-contract but should be done sonner than later for the environment. I wish the existing WVL's could be converted to electric or at least hybrid upon retender. Mactec and Vantage Power attempted to convert diesels to electrics and hybrids, what was the issue for the buses being withdrawn?
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Post by wirewiper on Feb 22, 2021 17:31:17 GMT
The 69 buses have not operated as electric buses for a number of years now so it's clear that they won't be going down that route. As for the X26, it may be a special case scenario where the WVL's are retained especially seeing as a lot of money was spent adapting them with luggage racks & single door conversion. The problem is TfL aims to have a Zero-Emission fleet by 2030. The WVL's are obviously not ZE. If contracts are going to be a solid 7 years from April 2022 then TfL is risking not meeting its goal. You may think about converting mid-contract but should be done sonner than later for the environment. I wish the existing WVL's could be converted to electric or at least hybrid upon retender. Mactec and Vantage Power attempted to convert diesels to electrics and hybrids, what was the issue for the buses being withdrawn? TfL also has to even out the rate of fleet replacement, not only to balance its own books but also to provide a consistent level of demand for the manufacturers of electric vehicles. Environmentally there isn't actually that great a need to get bus routes converted to electric as soon as possible (and certainly not ahead of the 2030 target), as London's entire fleet is already low-emission. When it comes to London's air quality, buses these days are a very small part of the problem.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2021 17:34:07 GMT
Will the 80 convert to DD's on the same day? If yes which buses will it use? Unlikely, the results of the consultation haven’t been published yet and as others have mentioned the only buses likely to be free in the immediate future are the WHVs from the 200 and I don’t see the electrics arriving anytime soon. It could just be a case of moving the 164 to AL fully on a Sunday to free a little bit of space for upgrade works. It would make it easier even with a couple less buses in the depot.
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Post by VMH2537 on Feb 22, 2021 17:34:54 GMT
Has the 456 been put on the tender for March 13th? The contract for the W10 runs until February 2023 (it had a two-year extension) so I presume Go-Ahead will operate the 456 as a variation of the W10 contract. EDIT: TB123 has explained above that the 456 will operate under its own new 5-year contract from its start date. tangytango.proboards.com/post/621643Can the W10 contract get terminated and start the 456 contract? The 456 one is a separate one which was done in April last year and is ready to be used any time. TFL did not mention a W10 contract extension, I'm assuming they gave a temporally contact until 456 us introduced.
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Post by wirewiper on Feb 22, 2021 17:38:07 GMT
The contract for the W10 runs until February 2023 (it had a two-year extension) so I presume Go-Ahead will operate the 456 as a variation of the W10 contract. EDIT: TB123 has explained above that the 456 will operate under its own new 5-year contract from its start date. tangytango.proboards.com/post/621643Can the W10 contract get terminated and start the 456 contract? The 456 one is a separate one which was done in April last year and is ready to be used any time. TFL did not mention a W10 contract extension, I'm assuming they gave a temporally contact until 456 us introduced. I don't know exactly how it is worked out but I am sure that TfL and Go-Ahead will have negotiated the terms for the new contract.
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Post by dashing0ne on Feb 22, 2021 18:39:09 GMT
The contract for the W10 runs until February 2023 (it had a two-year extension) so I presume Go-Ahead will operate the 456 as a variation of the W10 contract. EDIT: TB123 has explained above that the 456 will operate under its own new 5-year contract from its start date. tangytango.proboards.com/post/621643Can the W10 contract get terminated and start the 456 contract? The 456 one is a separate one which was done in April last year and is ready to be used any time. TFL did not mention a W10 contract extension, I'm assuming they gave a temporally contact until 456 us introduced. Probably just a 2 year extension for the W10.
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Post by dashing0ne on Feb 22, 2021 18:44:05 GMT
If you listen to this video filmed 3 days ago (I know people not following lockdown oh well) but the point is in this video you hear the Virtual Electric running mostly on electricity with a few subtle diesel kicks: www.youtube.com/watch?v=0W3thbwd0TY&t=166s. The drive is electric, but the power is generated by the on-board diesel engine. The idea of the experiment was for the bus to undergo "opportunity charging" at the terminals (route 69 was chosen as at both terminals the vehicles stands in a TfL bus station) and only use the diesel engine as a back-up - it was hoped that the vehicle would operate in pure-electric mode up to 80% of the time. The opportunity charging was discontinued some time ago and the technology is unlikely to have a future in London as full-size electric double-deckers are now viable. It was part of the ZeEUS project: zeeus.eu/Now it was concluded that the VE buses can run anywhere (no extra charging conductive plate infrastructure) needed maybe they can head to another DD route at LI since they are still cleaner than diesels, maybe the 58?
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Post by wirewiper on Feb 22, 2021 18:51:26 GMT
The drive is electric, but the power is generated by the on-board diesel engine. The idea of the experiment was for the bus to undergo "opportunity charging" at the terminals (route 69 was chosen as at both terminals the vehicles stands in a TfL bus station) and only use the diesel engine as a back-up - it was hoped that the vehicle would operate in pure-electric mode up to 80% of the time. The opportunity charging was discontinued some time ago and the technology is unlikely to have a future in London as full-size electric double-deckers are now viable. It was part of the ZeEUS project: zeeus.eu/Now it was concluded that the VE buses can run anywhere (no extra charging conductive plate infrastructure) needed maybe they can head to another DD route at LI since they are still cleaner than diesels, maybe the 58? It depends if Tower Transit are allowed to retain the vehicles, as I don't think they own them.
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Post by dashing0ne on Feb 22, 2021 19:55:42 GMT
Now it was concluded that the VE buses can run anywhere (no extra charging conductive plate infrastructure) needed maybe they can head to another DD route at LI since they are still cleaner than diesels, maybe the 58? It depends if Tower Transit are allowed to retain the vehicles, as I don't think they own them. I don't see why not. They are clean buses, would help with social distancing and use not waste buses.
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