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Post by ADH45258 on Jun 4, 2024 17:08:15 GMT
I'd say the 360 should keep the 12m,but not the 444.It only converted so the W15 would have enough existing buses,and it doesn't really pass through anywhere majorly busy apart from Turnpike Lane so it should go back to 10.9m* *(I am not local,so don't take my opinion too seriously) The 444 really needs the 12m SDs. It’s regularly packed to the door, always has been at some point on the route when I’ve used it. Not to mention the crowds it gathers when it regularly doesn’t turn up from the A406 ruining the reliability The 444 though (unlike the 360) doesn't have any height restrictions. Ideally it should just convert to DDs. I think some Ees have occasionally been used on the route? |
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Post by southlondon413 on Jun 4, 2024 17:25:24 GMT
The 444 really needs the 12m SDs. It’s regularly packed to the door, always has been at some point on the route when I’ve used it. Not to mention the crowds it gathers when it regularly doesn’t turn up from the A406 ruining the reliability The 444 though (unlike the 360) doesn't have any height restrictions. Ideally it should just convert to DDs. I think some Ees have occasionally been used on the route? As far as I remember there is only one bridge the 360 goes under and iirc it is 14.9ft, approximately 4.4m which is just taller than the E400EV. If there was merit in it then TfL could lower the road a few inches to make it fully passable. I would argue though that some of the roads the 360 traverses aren’t really suitable for double deckers particularly around the South Kensington to Pimlico section as they are quite traffic heavy. |
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Post by WH241 on Jun 4, 2024 17:38:52 GMT
Just to double check; The 101 runs from RR but will move once it converts to EV? 262/473 will move to DS once they convert to EV? I am a bit confused with what garages the routes run from cos they mix up the buses daily. 101 does run from RR and isn't planned to move, as WH241 said, spacing may also be an issue so I believe the route will remain there. Yes it would be more ideal if it would operate from DS, but we don't even know what buses were ordered for the route and whether any were ordered at all, or whether it would get an existing fleet of buses e.g. from the 151 since it's unable to accomodate E400 EVs. 262 is already operating from DS and 473 is being operated from Silvertown, but will move over to DS as soon as the E400 EVs arrive, type training is done and chargers are active. From what I've heard, Ee244 or 245, I can't remember which one, has already transferred to DS presumably to begin type training for the route. I would've thought they could've just type trained with one of the 69 buses, but I assume the 24 regs are quite different, but they will probably intermix in the future. Blue Triangle and Docklands Buses mix their buses around quite often, and transfers take place almost every day, hence why you'll see vehicles like Gemini 3s on the 473 despite Silvertown not owning any. Not sure about the 69 batch mixing with the new buses. They might not bother going to the expense of fitting new smart blinds. Talking about the 69 batch they are looking pretty rough considering their age! |
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Post by wirewiper on Jun 4, 2024 17:40:56 GMT
The 444 though (unlike the 360) doesn't have any height restrictions. Ideally it should just convert to DDs. I think some Ees have occasionally been used on the route? As far as I remember there is only one bridge the 360 goes under and iirc it is 14.9ft, approximately 4.4m which is just taller than the E400EV. If there was merit in it then TfL could lower the road a few inches to make it fully passable. I would argue though that some of the roads the 360 traverses aren’t really suitable for double deckers particularly around the South Kensington to Pimlico section as they are quite traffic heavy. The 360 goes under a railway arch in Black Prince Road, Lambeth, which has a signposted height restriction of 13' 9". |
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Post by ! ALEED on Jun 4, 2024 17:47:57 GMT
101 does run from RR and isn't planned to move, as WH241 said, spacing may also be an issue so I believe the route will remain there. Yes it would be more ideal if it would operate from DS, but we don't even know what buses were ordered for the route and whether any were ordered at all, or whether it would get an existing fleet of buses e.g. from the 151 since it's unable to accomodate E400 EVs. 262 is already operating from DS and 473 is being operated from Silvertown, but will move over to DS as soon as the E400 EVs arrive, type training is done and chargers are active. From what I've heard, Ee244 or 245, I can't remember which one, has already transferred to DS presumably to begin type training for the route. I would've thought they could've just type trained with one of the 69 buses, but I assume the 24 regs are quite different, but they will probably intermix in the future. Blue Triangle and Docklands Buses mix their buses around quite often, and transfers take place almost every day, hence why you'll see vehicles like Gemini 3s on the 473 despite Silvertown not owning any. Not sure about the 69 batch mixing with the new buses. They might not bother going to the expense of fitting new smart blinds. Talking about the 69 batch they are looking pretty rough considering their age! I agree with your comment, they are only about 3 years old and there are some MMCs around that are 18/19 reg even 17 reg on the 115 in a better position than those vehicles. I hope the same will not happen to the 262 and 473 Ee's. |
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Post by matthieu1221 on Jun 4, 2024 18:19:31 GMT
Was on 360 today and cannot believe the 12m buses passed to run on this route. We hit/bumped/rode the kerb seriously at least 4 times and got in some tight situations in traffic. I also note some of the sides of some of the vehicles have scratches/dents in the rear. Maybe these buses are getting replaced because they are difficult to drive on this route (or complaints). Probably similar with 444. On the other hand it could have been a terrible driver. Does the 360 (or 444) need the extra capacity of 12m SDs? If not I suspect Go Ahead will go back to 10.8m for the new contract. Yes, gets very busy. But sadly I think it's more likely the new buses will be shorter as it's not in the TfL mantra to provide a little more capacity than what is exactly required. |
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Post by matthieu1221 on Jun 4, 2024 18:20:38 GMT
Was on 360 today and cannot believe the 12m buses passed to run on this route. We hit/bumped/rode the kerb seriously at least 4 times and got in some tight situations in traffic. I also note some of the sides of some of the vehicles have scratches/dents in the rear. Maybe these buses are getting replaced because they are difficult to drive on this route (or complaints). Probably similar with 444. On the other hand it could have been a terrible driver. It can get tricky especially when traffic picks up a little but it can be done without bumping the kerb. |
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Post by vjaska on Jun 4, 2024 19:15:43 GMT
The 444 really needs the 12m SDs. It’s regularly packed to the door, always has been at some point on the route when I’ve used it. Not to mention the crowds it gathers when it regularly doesn’t turn up from the A406 ruining the reliability The 444 though (unlike the 360) doesn't have any height restrictions. Ideally it should just convert to DDs. I think some Ees have occasionally been used on the route? I thought there was a restriction with double deckers at North Middlesex Hospital - not height related but something else? LVF has a single recording of a Ee back in 2022 on the 444, nothing under Tower Transit or Arriva. And just to reiterate regarding the 444’s capacity, it certainly does need the maximum length currently available to it. This was a route I would use a lot under Arriva because of its ability to cross east to west and having seen it more recently, nothing much has changed and it’s still as busy as ever and back then, the 10.2m single deckers would leave people behind during peaks |
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Post by london23 on Jun 4, 2024 20:29:35 GMT
Do you think the 333 will get it's new Electric buses in January next year and the MHV's will transfer to Bexleyheath for Route 89 at the same time the 99,269 and 401 are starting there new contracts at Go-ahead London at the 89's will probably be needed to go towards supplying the extra buses needed for those 3 routes as the electric buses will probably won't be there then as Go-ahead London have a big order for electric buses.
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Post by ! ALEED on Jun 4, 2024 20:46:41 GMT
Do you think the 333 will get it's new Electric buses in January next year and the MHV's will transfer to Bexleyheath for Route 89 at the same time the 99,269 and 401 are starting there new contracts at Go-ahead London at the 89's will probably be needed to go towards supplying the extra buses needed for those 3 routes as the electric buses will probably won't be there then as Go-ahead London have a big order for electric buses. Well if we were to really evaluate it, it would be quite a low chance. That's because firstly, the batch for the 333 hasn't even arrived yet, which means this could take a couple more months. I have a feeling they could arrive around late 2024. Most garages start their work after the batch of electrics have arrived. This has been seen with TH, River Road, DS, WH and also NS. I assume that's just something that happens with most garages? Electrification for a garage can take around 5-12 months, and sometimes longer, and there has also been infrastructure issues at garages like RR and AW which could also potentially slow it down. Additionally, the entering of those buses could also take a long time as seen with the 157.. Those Evosetis will most likely head to the 89 straight away and not the 99, 269 and 401. The 262, 473 and 157 will be releasing a huge batch of buses, along with the 89 releasing a few and also other routes! I believe they will be able to source the right amount of buses. In total, the 99, 269 and 401 will require: 34 buses. (Counting by PVR, not including spares) The 262, 473 and 157 will release: 36 buses (Maybe 38, I'm counting via PVR) I believe they will manage just fine. |
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Post by BK15AZR on Jun 4, 2024 21:04:03 GMT
Was on 360 today and cannot believe the 12m buses passed to run on this route. We hit/bumped/rode the kerb seriously at least 4 times and got in some tight situations in traffic. I also note some of the sides of some of the vehicles have scratches/dents in the rear. Maybe these buses are getting replaced because they are difficult to drive on this route (or complaints). Probably similar with 444. On the other hand it could have been a terrible driver. The 444 route is relatively straight so should be fine with 12m buses. Took that once and didn't really notice any part of the route particularly challenging. I agree some turns are tight for the 360 though. I'm surprised how a 12m bus manages the turn from King's Road into Backlands Terrace for example. But it gets busy at times as well so may need the capacity. |
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Post by lj61nwc on Jun 4, 2024 22:05:40 GMT
Do you think the 333 will get it's new Electric buses in January next year and the MHV's will transfer to Bexleyheath for Route 89 at the same time the 99,269 and 401 are starting there new contracts at Go-ahead London at the 89's will probably be needed to go towards supplying the extra buses needed for those 3 routes as the electric buses will probably won't be there then as Go-ahead London have a big order for electric buses. Well if we were to really evaluate it, it would be quite a low chance. That's because firstly, the batch for the 333 hasn't even arrived yet, which means this could take a couple more months. I have a feeling they could arrive around late 2024. Most garages start their work after the batch of electrics have arrived. This has been seen with TH, River Road, DS, WH and also NS. I assume that's just something that happens with most garages? I think stockwell take longer to electrify because its open plan so cant have wires coming to chargers from under the roof like sutton, so have to plan digging up etc. UKPN are a headache and shift projects around when they feel like it (getting paid more from one compared to another) and obviously operators will pay lowest cost as they need to be competitive |
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Post by southlondon413 on Jun 4, 2024 22:29:32 GMT
Well if we were to really evaluate it, it would be quite a low chance. That's because firstly, the batch for the 333 hasn't even arrived yet, which means this could take a couple more months. I have a feeling they could arrive around late 2024. Most garages start their work after the batch of electrics have arrived. This has been seen with TH, River Road, DS, WH and also NS. I assume that's just something that happens with most garages? I think stockwell take longer to electrify because its open plan so cant have wires coming to chargers from under the roof like sutton, so have to plan digging up etc. UKPN are a headache and shift projects around when they feel like it (getting paid more from one compared to another) and obviously operators will pay lowest cost as they need to be competitive There was still digging done at Sutton. The major delay for Stockwell will be its listed status, plans will likely need to be assessed and approved by Historic England to ensure they don’t interfere with any of the listed features. That alone could be a lengthy procedure. |
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Post by DE20106 on Jun 5, 2024 10:12:53 GMT
I think stockwell take longer to electrify because its open plan so cant have wires coming to chargers from under the roof like sutton, so have to plan digging up etc. UKPN are a headache and shift projects around when they feel like it (getting paid more from one compared to another) and obviously operators will pay lowest cost as they need to be competitive There was still digging done at Sutton. The major delay for Stockwell will be its listed status, plans will likely need to be assessed and approved by Historic England to ensure they don’t interfere with any of the listed features. That alone could be a lengthy procedure. Knowing how long a process it could be with Historic England and them approving the plans before any work can be done, never mind the complexity of wiring SW up itself, it very realistically could even be two years until it sees any electric operations |
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Post by southlondon413 on Jun 5, 2024 10:19:34 GMT
There was still digging done at Sutton. The major delay for Stockwell will be its listed status, plans will likely need to be assessed and approved by Historic England to ensure they don’t interfere with any of the listed features. That alone could be a lengthy procedure. Knowing how long a process it could be with Historic England and them approving the plans before any work can be done, never mind the complexity of wiring SW up itself, it very realistically could even be two years until it sees any electric operations It depends on how proactive Go Ahead have been in working with Historic England. Just focusing back on Sutton for a minute upgrade works to enable EV conversion of the garage were completed in November 2022 just before the contract started so were clearly being worked on before the contracts were even awarded as it was a 9 month project and that’s without planning. It could be the same here particularly as Go Ahead as a company seem the most eager to have a fully EV fleet. |
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