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Post by ronnie on Apr 1, 2020 14:18:22 GMT
I think there is an issue with interpretation about what 'bus routes travelling through a car park really means. A service could enter a supermarket site and turn off the access road into a 'service area', like Sainsbury's, Hampton Road. It could go the stops past or between car parks without entering. It could enter a car park and only use internal roads. Most park and rides are like this. The only example where I know a services enter the parking area is the X8 and X8A at Lidl in Blandford Forum where the bus actually passes the end of parking spaces as it turns at the end of the car park. I would add a link to Google Maps; unfortunately the site is still under construction on the latest map. The 246 at chartwell (while under summer extension) goes right through the car park and reversed into its stand to terminate Does anyone remember what the scene is at Lakeside and Bluewater? Can’t remember for the life of me
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Post by busaholic on Apr 1, 2020 14:39:03 GMT
I think there is an issue with interpretation about what 'bus routes travelling through a car park really means. A service could enter a supermarket site and turn off the access road into a 'service area', like Sainsbury's, Hampton Road. It could go the stops past or between car parks without entering. It could enter a car park and only use internal roads. Most park and rides are like this. The only example where I know a services enter the parking area is the X8 and X8A at Lidl in Blandford Forum where the bus actually passes the end of parking spaces as it turns at the end of the car park. I would add a link to Google Maps; unfortunately the site is still under construction on the latest map. The minibus operated route 8 in darkest Penzance starts at Morrison's, goes via Sainsbury's, then Tesco before ending close to the Atlantic. All three involve getting mixed up with parking cars, especially at Sainsbury's, which is also served by other buses. On occasion, due to RTAs, even double deckers get diverted via there, which can be VERY challenging!
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Post by vjaska on Apr 1, 2020 14:54:00 GMT
I think there is an issue with interpretation about what 'bus routes travelling through a car park really means. A service could enter a supermarket site and turn off the access road into a 'service area', like Sainsbury's, Hampton Road. It could go the stops past or between car parks without entering. It could enter a car park and only use internal roads. Most park and rides are like this. The only example where I know a services enter the parking area is the X8 and X8A at Lidl in Blandford Forum where the bus actually passes the end of parking spaces as it turns at the end of the car park. I would add a link to Google Maps; unfortunately the site is still under construction on the latest map. The 246 at chartwell (while under summer extension) goes right through the car park and reversed into its stand to terminate Does anyone remember what the scene is at Lakeside and Bluewater? Can’t remember for the life of me However, the 246 doesn't do this in service which was what the OP was asking for - last stop is by the green before the bus runs light to the car park as you say. Lakeside & Bluewater have bus stations - no routes enter the car parks at both locations
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Post by kmkcheng on Apr 1, 2020 14:57:32 GMT
I think there is an issue with interpretation about what 'bus routes travelling through a car park really means. A service could enter a supermarket site and turn off the access road into a 'service area', like Sainsbury's, Hampton Road. It could go the stops past or between car parks without entering. It could enter a car park and only use internal roads. Most park and rides are like this. The only example where I know a services enter the parking area is the X8 and X8A at Lidl in Blandford Forum where the bus actually passes the end of parking spaces as it turns at the end of the car park. I would add a link to Google Maps; unfortunately the site is still under construction on the latest map. A couple of ones I know are just outside London. The 319, R9 and R16 enters the Watford Dome Sainsbury’s car park and I seem to recall the buses that serve the Brookfield Centre Tesco near Chesthunt also go through the car park
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Post by rugbyref on Apr 1, 2020 14:57:52 GMT
208, R3 and R4 at Farnborough Hospital a.k.a Princess Royal University Hospital. I think you meant 261? Nicely corrected, thanks.
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Post by ronnie on Apr 1, 2020 17:33:04 GMT
The 246 at chartwell (while under summer extension) goes right through the car park and reversed into its stand to terminate Does anyone remember what the scene is at Lakeside and Bluewater? Can’t remember for the life of me However, the 246 doesn't do this in service which was what the OP was asking for - last stop is by the green before the bus runs light to the car park as you say. Lakeside & Bluewater have bus stations - no routes enter the car parks at both locations I think it does run in service if I remember correctly - I had done the 320 just before and had already waited 35 min for the 246 which was another 15 min late.... I got down inside the car park along with a bunch of passengers (bus reached 5-10 min after it was supposed to start the return journey). The driver went to the toilet and then spent 10 min explaining things to an elderly lady while people waited to board (I boarded last). All of this was right inside the car park! You are correct about the bluewater / lakeside bus stations. I was busy prepping to catch the next bus and couldn’t remember if the bus went through the car park or not!
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Post by greenboy on Apr 3, 2020 21:20:11 GMT
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Post by 6HP502C on Apr 4, 2020 3:49:02 GMT
I've stopped driving for the time being. Last shift I did at a garage that shall remain nameless, social distancing guidelines were not being taken seriously and the cabs of the buses were filthy. I had a load of Dettol and Flash wipes but used more than expected as 3 bus duties instead of 2 are in vogue. It's hitting me in the pocket but I'm in the vulnerable group and wish to reduce risk. Solutions rather than problems should be presented however. Mine is not going into work. For those who are then it's down to both drivers and management to establish and stick to practices that mitigate risk.
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Post by rambo on Apr 4, 2020 6:58:52 GMT
I've stopped driving for the time being. Last shift I did at a garage that shall remain nameless, social distancing guidelines were not being taken seriously and the cabs of the buses were filthy. I had a load of Dettol and Flash wipes but used more than expected as 3 bus duties instead of 2 are in vogue. It's hitting me in the pocket but I'm in the vulnerable group and wish to reduce risk. Solutions rather than problems should be presented however. Mine is not going into work. For those who are then it's down to both drivers and management to establish and stick to practices that mitigate risk. Nothing new sadly, when I started driving buses years ago, the cabs were filthy then. I used to wipe any surface I had to touch in the cab from day 1 of driving. Bus companies could not care less about it's drivers, ime.
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Post by rj131 on Apr 4, 2020 8:56:13 GMT
Just been looking at the latest TfL operator performance league tables, Arriva and Go-Ahead divisions absolutely smashing it lately, both on low and high frequency services. Good work there. Especially excellent performance at Arriva London South. Just been looking at these myself and I’m trying to get my head round them. So a couple of questions I hope someone can answer 1) Why do the different operators have different targets for benchmarks and minimum standards? 2) Why does it show the different divisions of operators (ie London General, London Central etc, rather than just Go-Ahead?) It seems a bit unfair on poor Sullivan’s. It would seem their performance seems to be bad just because any mistakes from them would show up as a larger percentage because they have a smaller volume of routes. In the high frequency table they only have the 217 to be judged by, which I’m sure can be an absolute pig to control if the A10 snarls up. Even though I’m sure they’re probably no worse than any other operator.
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Post by YY13VKP on Apr 4, 2020 9:04:59 GMT
Just been looking at the latest TfL operator performance league tables, Arriva and Go-Ahead divisions absolutely smashing it lately, both on low and high frequency services. Good work there. Especially excellent performance at Arriva London South. Just been looking at these myself and I’m trying to get my head round them. So a couple of questions I hope someone can answer 1) Why do the different operators have different targets for benchmarks and minimum standards? 2) Why does it show the different divisions of operators (ie London General, London Central etc, rather than just Go-Ahead?) It seems a bit unfair on poor Sullivan’s. It would seem their performance seems to be bad just because any mistakes from them would show up as a larger percentage because they have a smaller volume of routes. In the high frequency table they only have the 217 to be judged by, which I’m sure can be an absolute pig to control if the A10 snarls up. Even though I’m sure they’re probably no worse than any other operator. Each operator has a series of Key Performance Indicators (KPI’s) which help them to set their benchmarks and performance target for each route. These performance league targets are constantly monitored by the garage OM’s. To answer your second question, it’s the same as in tenders, where each division is shown rather than the main company itself - it’s just the way TfL do it. I quite like it personally
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Post by TB123 on Apr 4, 2020 9:15:42 GMT
Just been looking at the latest TfL operator performance league tables, Arriva and Go-Ahead divisions absolutely smashing it lately, both on low and high frequency services. Good work there. Especially excellent performance at Arriva London South. Just been looking at these myself and I’m trying to get my head round them. So a couple of questions I hope someone can answer 1) Why do the different operators have different targets for benchmarks and minimum standards? 2) Why does it show the different divisions of operators (ie London General, London Central etc, rather than just Go-Ahead?) It seems a bit unfair on poor Sullivan’s. It would seem their performance seems to be bad just because any mistakes from them would show up as a larger percentage because they have a smaller volume of routes. In the high frequency table they only have the 217 to be judged by, which I’m sure can be an absolute pig to control if the A10 snarls up. Even though I’m sure they’re probably no worse than any other operator. Each route will have its own metrics to meet. Hence why it will differ. Sullivans used to be renowned for always being the top operator for performance but those days seem to have gone now which is a shame. They'll be missing out on a hefty amount of QIC bonuses as a result of being so far down the tables, and they certainly pay.
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Post by rj131 on Apr 4, 2020 9:28:33 GMT
Just been looking at these myself and I’m trying to get my head round them. So a couple of questions I hope someone can answer 1) Why do the different operators have different targets for benchmarks and minimum standards? 2) Why does it show the different divisions of operators (ie London General, London Central etc, rather than just Go-Ahead?) It seems a bit unfair on poor Sullivan’s. It would seem their performance seems to be bad just because any mistakes from them would show up as a larger percentage because they have a smaller volume of routes. In the high frequency table they only have the 217 to be judged by, which I’m sure can be an absolute pig to control if the A10 snarls up. Even though I’m sure they’re probably no worse than any other operator. Each operator has a series of Key Performance Indicators (KPI’s) which help them to set their benchmarks and performance target for each route. These performance league targets are constantly monitored by the garage OM’s. To answer your second question, it’s the same as in tenders, where each division is shown rather than the main company itself - it’s just the way TfL do it. I quite like it personally Just been looking at these myself and I’m trying to get my head round them. So a couple of questions I hope someone can answer 1) Why do the different operators have different targets for benchmarks and minimum standards? 2) Why does it show the different divisions of operators (ie London General, London Central etc, rather than just Go-Ahead?) It seems a bit unfair on poor Sullivan’s. It would seem their performance seems to be bad just because any mistakes from them would show up as a larger percentage because they have a smaller volume of routes. In the high frequency table they only have the 217 to be judged by, which I’m sure can be an absolute pig to control if the A10 snarls up. Even though I’m sure they’re probably no worse than any other operator. Each route will have its own metrics to meet. Hence why it will differ. Sullivans used to be renowned for always being the top operator for performance but those days seem to have gone now which is a shame. They'll be missing out on a hefty amount of QIC bonuses as a result of being so far down the tables, and they certainly pay. Cheers for that, really helpful This is just a niche point but I wonder if these league tables will reflect the shift in Arriva’s management restructuring. Ie DT will be contributing into Arriva London South’s league performance and a new addition for Arriva London Central, or if it goes by the O-Licenses which are remaining the same.
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Post by TB123 on Apr 4, 2020 9:35:31 GMT
Each operator has a series of Key Performance Indicators (KPI’s) which help them to set their benchmarks and performance target for each route. These performance league targets are constantly monitored by the garage OM’s. To answer your second question, it’s the same as in tenders, where each division is shown rather than the main company itself - it’s just the way TfL do it. I quite like it personally Each route will have its own metrics to meet. Hence why it will differ. Sullivans used to be renowned for always being the top operator for performance but those days seem to have gone now which is a shame. They'll be missing out on a hefty amount of QIC bonuses as a result of being so far down the tables, and they certainly pay. Cheers for that, really helpful This is just a niche point but I wonder if these league tables will reflect the shift in Arriva’s management restructuring. Ie DT will be contributing into Arriva London South’s league performance and a new addition for Arriva London Central, or if it goes by the O-Licenses which are remaining the same. I believe DT will still be seen as part of Arriva London North in the performance tables.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2020 14:52:11 GMT
Just been looking at the latest TfL operator performance league tables, Arriva and Go-Ahead divisions absolutely smashing it lately, both on low and high frequency services. Good work there. Especially excellent performance at Arriva London South. Just been looking at these myself and I’m trying to get my head round them. So a couple of questions I hope someone can answer 1) Why do the different operators have different targets for benchmarks and minimum standards? 2) Why does it show the different divisions of operators (ie London General, London Central etc, rather than just Go-Ahead?) It seems a bit unfair on poor Sullivan’s. It would seem their performance seems to be bad just because any mistakes from them would show up as a larger percentage because they have a smaller volume of routes. In the high frequency table they only have the 217 to be judged by, which I’m sure can be an absolute pig to control if the A10 snarls up. Even though I’m sure they’re probably no worse than any other operator. In terms of performance, each route will have a set performance minimum standard. If it is a low frequency route this standard will be a percentage of buses that have to run on time. If it is a high frequency route this standard will be average EWT (excess wait time which is how long the average passenger has to wait longer than the scheduled frequency). These are both measured at certain points along the route called QSI Points. A result will then be generated on a daily basis for this. With high frequency routes, the lower the score the better, eg. if the minimum is 1.20 EWT and you perform at 1.00 EWT the average passenger is waiting less than the minimum threshold so you are overperforming. With low frequency routes, the higher the score the better, eg. if the minimum standard is 80% of buses are on time and you perform at 85% you are overperforming. Each route will have a different minimum standard depending on traffic conditions etc. so the league tables will look at the overall variance from the minimum standard, the higher the variance the higher you will be up the league table. There are also bonuses available for overperformance and fines available for underperformance so there is an incentive to run a good service.
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