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Post by snoggle on Jun 18, 2018 13:57:59 GMT
The days of having staff at TfL to cover for colleagues on holiday have long gone. I know of one department where they made offers to all staff on very favourable terms. Too many applied and offers had to be withdrawn. Even so the best part of 80 years of specialist experience did walk out of the door before Christmas. So TfL now have departments riddled with "single point failure" risks due to no cover or skill overlap? That seems a mildly ridiculous strategy to take alongside the imposition of a very flat management structure. Just leaves the place unable to deliver and function when people are away for perfectly legitimate reasons. Interesting that HR actually *made* offers to too many people. IME they are typically more careful than that to avoid precisely the situation you cite. I assume they were under tremendous pressure to just get the new organisation (and cost savings) in place as fast as possible. Still it shows that a lot of people had seen the "writing on the wall" and wanted out. Not at all surprised to see that much experience walk out the door - TfL place no value on accumulated experience and have never tackled knowledge retention properly. Still if they want to make mistakes, waste money and be humiliated by politicians it's the right way to go about it. This all makes Caroline Pidgeon's question to the Mayor - "how well do you think TfL is performing?" - at this weeks MQT all the more intriguing. As it's an oral, not written, question I imagine she has a load of evidence to challenge the Mayor's no doubt glowing assessment of TfL's performance.
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Post by BusesInLondon on Jun 18, 2018 20:48:29 GMT
I wouldn't call the 270 or 430's demand as modest - both routes do get busy, particularly the 270. I know most people would love to remove the 430 but it's much busier than people give it credit for. I do agree that the 123 should be more frequent I’ll take your word for the 430 as I swear down to you I’ve never seen it busy I have seen quite a few well loaded 270s as well but I’m sure you’ll agree both aren’t 109-busy I’d say they are modest comparing them to the 123, which as I said has much lower frequencies than the previous two and is very heavily loaded much of the time, more often than the other two imo. While it isn’t particularly frequent for its demand let’s just say it’s lucky, that considering the state of affairs it hasn’t received a reduction it does annoy me though that there are some routes which I’d say are in need of a trim down but aren’t getting them, being sacrificed by routes that don’t need them but are getting them! The 430 is well used by students between Putney and South Ken, Ive never seen it empty...
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Post by DE20106 on Jun 19, 2018 22:23:55 GMT
I have to say I’m really surprised the 123 has as low a frequency as it does for such a long and major route as it is, 15 minutes Sundays/evenings and 11 Mon/Fri, it’s ridiculously busy nearly every time I see it at most times of the day. To think there are routes like the 430 and the 270 which have much bigger frequencies but far more modest demand/usage. We've done this one before but the 123, along with the 35, are the lowest frequency routes for a ridership in excess of 7 million pass jnys a year. In years past the 35 had over 9m pass jnys on the same frequency levels as now - goodness knows how it coped. It must have been a living hell from early to late. I’ve just realised (albeit a day late), the 123 and 35 AREN’T the lowest frequency routes for a ridership in excess of 7 million. The 58 is, 12 M-S and 15 Sun. The 35 and 123 have the 15 min Sun frequency, but have 10 and 11 M-S frequency respectively. I’m sure it’s not recently had a frequency reduction. I’m really surprised noone’s picked that up.
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Post by snoggle on Jun 19, 2018 22:41:24 GMT
We've done this one before but the 123, along with the 35, are the lowest frequency routes for a ridership in excess of 7 million pass jnys a year. In years past the 35 had over 9m pass jnys on the same frequency levels as now - goodness knows how it coped. It must have been a living hell from early to late. I’ve just realised (albeit a day late), the 123 and 35 AREN’T the lowest frequency routes for a ridership in excess of 7 million. The 58 is, 12 M-S and 15 Sun. The 35 and 123 have the 15 min Sun frequency, but have 10 and 11 M-S frequency respectively. I’m sure it’s not recently had a frequency reduction. I’m really surprised noone’s picked that up. The 58 had a 10 min frequency for a while but was dropped back to x12 by TfL in Jan 2018. As we've not had last year's numbers yet I haven't mentally readjusted my "least frequent for most capacity" bit of knowledge. LT and TfL have never been able to make their minds up about the relative frequencies of the 58 and 158. We had this sort of back and forth nonsense in the 1980s. The 158 went up to x8 in Sept 2016 which is probably why TfL felt able to trim the 58 back again (alongside no doubt falling patronage and the fall out from cycle lane works).
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Post by DE20106 on Jun 19, 2018 23:15:31 GMT
I’ve just realised (albeit a day late), the 123 and 35 AREN’T the lowest frequency routes for a ridership in excess of 7 million. The 58 is, 12 M-S and 15 Sun. The 35 and 123 have the 15 min Sun frequency, but have 10 and 11 M-S frequency respectively. I’m sure it’s not recently had a frequency reduction. I’m really surprised noone’s picked that up. The 58 had a 10 min frequency for a while but was dropped back to x12 by TfL in Jan 2018. As we've not had last year's numbers yet I haven't mentally readjusted by "last frequent for most capacity" bit of knowledge. LT and TfL have never been able to make their minds up about the relative frequencies of the 58 and 158. We had this sort of back and forth nonsense in the 1980s. The 158 went up to x8 in Sept 2016 which is probably why TfL felt able to trim the 58 back again (alongside no doubt falling patronage and the fall out from cycle lane works). Ah, thanks for correcting. well it is currently at least then in that case lol, I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see the 58 drop below 7 mill however knowing how much of a nightmare Walthamstow has become and will probably remain.
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Post by busaholic on Jun 19, 2018 23:19:23 GMT
I’ve just realised (albeit a day late), the 123 and 35 AREN’T the lowest frequency routes for a ridership in excess of 7 million. The 58 is, 12 M-S and 15 Sun. The 35 and 123 have the 15 min Sun frequency, but have 10 and 11 M-S frequency respectively. I’m sure it’s not recently had a frequency reduction. I’m really surprised noone’s picked that up. The 58 had a 10 min frequency for a while but was dropped back to x12 by TfL in Jan 2018. As we've not had last year's numbers yet I haven't mentally readjusted by "last frequent for most capacity" bit of knowledge. LT and TfL have never been able to make their minds up about the relative frequencies of the 58 and 158. We had this sort of back and forth nonsense in the 1980s. The 158 went up to x8 in Sept 2016 which is probably why TfL felt able to trim the 58 back again (alongside no doubt falling patronage and the fall out from cycle lane works). I have it in my mind that the 58 was due to have an increase in frequency (perhaps on Saturdays?) but actually got a decrease instead, which at the time seemed mindboggling but now, well, par for the course I suppose.
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Post by snoggle on Jun 20, 2018 10:14:24 GMT
The 58 had a 10 min frequency for a while but was dropped back to x12 by TfL in Jan 2018. As we've not had last year's numbers yet I haven't mentally readjusted by "last frequent for most capacity" bit of knowledge. LT and TfL have never been able to make their minds up about the relative frequencies of the 58 and 158. We had this sort of back and forth nonsense in the 1980s. The 158 went up to x8 in Sept 2016 which is probably why TfL felt able to trim the 58 back again (alongside no doubt falling patronage and the fall out from cycle lane works). I have it in my mind that the 58 was due to have an increase in frequency (perhaps on Saturdays?) but actually got a decrease instead, which at the time seemed mindboggling but now, well, par for the course I suppose. The 58 was unusual in that it had a higher Sat frequency than M-F for a fair while. I think the change you are thinking of is the proposed improvement to Sunday and Evening frequencies which was binned along with a number of other improvements in Waltham Forest as a result of the Mayor's psychotic funding ideas. Still I am sure he now believes Waltham Forest is just off Charing Cross Road and not actually in Outer London so he can live with having made "Central London" (sic) routes more efficient.
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Post by busaholic on Jun 20, 2018 20:52:17 GMT
I have it in my mind that the 58 was due to have an increase in frequency (perhaps on Saturdays?) but actually got a decrease instead, which at the time seemed mindboggling but now, well, par for the course I suppose. The 58 was unusual in that it had a higher Sat frequency than M-F for a fair while. I think the change you are thinking of is the proposed improvement to Sunday and Evening frequencies which was binned along with a number of other improvements in Waltham Forest as a result of the Mayor's psychotic funding ideas. Still I am sure he now believes Waltham Forest is just off Charing Cross Road and not actually in Outer London so he can live with having made "Central London" (sic) routes more efficient. Yes, I'm sure it was the evening and Sunday frequencies now you come to mention it. The extra Saturday frequency certainly applied for many years, dating back to shortly after conversion from trolleybus. I was just musing on the 58 when I looked out of the window and saw a parked car with old style reg, the number part being 685, the precursor to the 58: weird!
Sadiq Khan's knowledge of most of London probably equates with Zac Goldsmith's, but he was cannier in not getting drawn in to answering questions on the subject during the mayoral election campaign.
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Post by snoggle on Jun 20, 2018 22:45:32 GMT
Sadiq Khan's knowledge of most of London probably equates with Zac Goldsmith's, but he was cannier in not getting drawn in to answering questions on the subject during the mayoral election campaign. Talking of election campaigns Mr Khan has said today that he intends to seek a second Mayoral term. Have to say I'm surprised.
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Post by redbus on Jun 20, 2018 23:01:41 GMT
Sadiq Khan's knowledge of most of London probably equates with Zac Goldsmith's, but he was cannier in not getting drawn in to answering questions on the subject during the mayoral election campaign. Talking of election campaigns Mr Khan has said today that he intends to seek a second Mayoral term. Have to say I'm surprised. Interesting, but while I agree with lots of what you say, I am not that surprised. I don't want to do you any injustice, but I think you previously suggested he had, shall we say, greater political ambitions, and there I do agree. Unfortunately for him what has happened in the Labour Party in the last couple of years and following the last election means that much of that ambition is closed off at least for now. Therefore what else to do than be go for Mayor again. We shall see if he has opposition within the Labour Party to this, as I think it is not guaranteed he will be chosen as their candidate again. Having said that, declaring his hand now I think puts him in the best position to be the Labour candidate. He also needs to take care over his record, eg crime, bus cuts etc, otherwise he may find himself exposed with great British public who may not be guaranteed to vote him in again.
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Post by SILENCED on Jun 20, 2018 23:33:18 GMT
Talking of election campaigns Mr Khan has said today that he intends to seek a second Mayoral term. Have to say I'm surprised. Interesting, but while I agree with lots of what you say, I am not that surprised. I don't want to do you any injustice, but I think you previously suggested he had, shall we say, greater political ambitions, and there I do agree. Unfortunately for him what has happened in the Labour Party in the last couple of years and following the last election means that much of that ambition is closed off at least for now. Therefore what else to do than be go for Mayor again. We shall see if he has opposition within the Labour Party to this, as I think it is not guaranteed he will be chosen as their candidate again. Having said that, declaring his hand now I think puts him in the best position to be the Labour candidate. He also needs to take care over his record, eg crime, bus cuts etc, otherwise he may find himself exposed with great British public who may not be guaranteed to vote him in again. Khan't see anyone beating him!!!!
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Post by bn12cny on Jun 21, 2018 9:31:25 GMT
In Beijing there are quite a few buses express and standard routes that only run in AM/PM for example 06:00-09:30 - 17:00-20:30 with either no service or short workings, this have made me think what bus routes in London can you do this to? One Candidate would be the 430 in peak hours run full route but off peak Roehampton to Putney Bridge Only because people can change to either 74 or 14 with hopper fare and these routes run parallel to the 430. Route 424 peak hours only. With savings on running peak hour buses only gives the government more money and they introduced many more express services so drivers jobs etc are not lost. I know the move here to do this was conteravsal but it’s working here, could it work in London?
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Post by sid on Jun 21, 2018 9:44:44 GMT
In Beijing there are quite a few buses express and standard routes that only run in AM/PM for example 06:00-09:30 - 17:00-20:30 with either no service or short workings, this have made me think what bus routes in London can you do this to? One Candidate would be the 430 in peak hours run full route but off peak Roehampton to Putney Bridge Only because people can change to either 74 or 14 with hopper fare and these routes run parallel to the 430. Route 424 peak hours only. With savings on running peak hour buses only gives the government more money and they introduced many more express services so drivers jobs etc are not lost. I know the move here to do this was conteravsal but it’s working here, could it work in London? I agree about the 430 although stand space at Putney Bridge is limited but I think the 424 justifies an all day service. A controversial one that has been suggested before is the 68 which is covered by the 168,171 and 468, the extra capacity is needed at peak times but off peak?
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Post by snoggle on Jun 21, 2018 10:54:52 GMT
In Beijing there are quite a few buses express and standard routes that only run in AM/PM for example 06:00-09:30 - 17:00-20:30 with either no service or short workings, this have made me think what bus routes in London can you do this to? One Candidate would be the 430 in peak hours run full route but off peak Roehampton to Putney Bridge Only because people can change to either 74 or 14 with hopper fare and these routes run parallel to the 430. Route 424 peak hours only. With savings on running peak hour buses only gives the government more money and they introduced many more express services so drivers jobs etc are not lost. I know the move here to do this was conteravsal but it’s working here, could it work in London? That practice of special peak services and expresses is quite a thing in the Far East. There are myriad examples in Hong Kong and a slightly different approach in Singapore. One of the justifications in those places is the extremely dense housing you get in the estates there. This creates huge flows and the rail networks, although growing, are nowhere near as large and dense as in London. There are also fast roads - expressways and tunnels to allow buses to run at high speeds. There is no parallel road system like that in London because we stopped mass demolition of housing to build roads 30 years ago. There are also different societal tolerances for intrusive highways in China and HK - people don't bat an eyelid at flyovers running past their flat windows or else they have no mechanism to legally protest. Peak expresses are now fairly rare in the UK. I can think of a few in Tyne and Wear and I think Travel West Midlands still have some in the Birmingham area. However the loss of patronage over so many years has removed the need for the extra capacity that expresses provided. I am sceptical about their value in London because people are not using the bus network as intensively as before and there is next to no scope to offer genuinely faster, more efficient journey times on the road network. An ideal corridor might be something like the A12 into, say, Docklands or Stratford but the road is a near permanent traffic jam east of Gants Hill and even the newer bit through Leytonstone slows to a crawl in the peaks. The Central Line is far faster.
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Post by kmkcheng on Jun 21, 2018 11:21:48 GMT
In Beijing there are quite a few buses express and standard routes that only run in AM/PM for example 06:00-09:30 - 17:00-20:30 with either no service or short workings, this have made me think what bus routes in London can you do this to? One Candidate would be the 430 in peak hours run full route but off peak Roehampton to Putney Bridge Only because people can change to either 74 or 14 with hopper fare and these routes run parallel to the 430. Route 424 peak hours only. With savings on running peak hour buses only gives the government more money and they introduced many more express services so drivers jobs etc are not lost. I know the move here to do this was conteravsal but it’s working here, could it work in London? That practice of special peak services and expresses is quite a thing in the Far East. There are myriad examples in Hong Kong and a slightly different approach in Singapore. One of the justifications in those places is the extremely dense housing you get in the estates there. This creates huge flows and the rail networks, although growing, are nowhere near as large and dense as in London. There are also fast roads - expressways and tunnels to allow buses to run at high speeds. There is no parallel road system like that in London because we stopped mass demolition of housing to build roads 30 years ago. There are also different societal tolerances for intrusive highways in China and HK - people don't bat an eyelid at flyovers running past their flat windows or else they have no mechanism to legally protest. Peak expresses are now fairly rare in the UK. I can think of a few in Tyne and Wear and I think Travel West Midlands still have some in the Birmingham area. However the loss of patronage over so many years has removed the need for the extra capacity that expresses provided. I am sceptical about their value in London because people are not using the bus network as intensively as before and there is next to no scope to offer genuinely faster, more efficient journey times on the road network. An ideal corridor might be something like the A12 into, say, Docklands or Stratford but the road is a near permanent traffic jam east of Gants Hill and even the newer bit through Leytonstone slows to a crawl in the peaks. The Central Line is far faster. I think the only way a peak hour express route in London would work is to have a bus only expressway leading into/out of central London to/from the suburbs. Somehow I don’t see that ever happening without major bulldozing going on
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