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Post by ServerKing on Jun 29, 2018 2:22:23 GMT
It normally runs good when I use it and I think RATP do a good job with the route. I can agree that there is excessive bunching sometimes in 3’s or 4’s. But there is much worse routes in London when it comes to regulating and stopping at each stop for a long period. The roadworks in Kingston have not been helping. It is not uncommon to see multiple buses towards Kingston queuing in Richmond Road (4-7 buses within half mile not uncommon in afternoon school or evening peak). There desperately needs to be a short turn between Ham and Cromwell Road as this section can take 30 minutes when congested. It would be very easy to use Albany Park Road as an occasional turning loop (it has extra spur from Richmond Road), but I suspect no-one from Palestra has ever ventured to that road. (not really suitable anticlockwise as left turns too tight, but could easily get 11m decker clockwise, starting opposite Durlston Road) One of the problems was that about a decade ago TfL had daft idea of building out kerblines at a couple of bus laybys at stops, the worst being Sandy Lane (Petersham) Southbound. Due to congestion in Richmond and width of road between Richmond and Petersham there is a long length now unsuitable for regulating the service. Consequently the regulation instructions are either deferred a few stops, or they create traffic congestion and more bunching if observed. Kew bridge area is also a mess, it seems like the traffic lights in the area are not optimised very well, and some of the (discontinuous) bus lanes, actually seem to cause traffic blockages so that buses can't reach the bus lanes. Too much piecemeal dabbling over the years without standing back and looking what now happens as problems get moved 100m up the road rather than fixed. There is no easy fix for 65, but the best thing to do would be to add a couple of (unscheduled) extra turns so that recovery from problems can be much quicker and more flexibly done. The 65 has been a difficult route for years, no matter who ran it. Back in the day be it waiting for Armchair's aging Atlanteans in the freezing cold at Richmond, or in modern day waiting ages along Kew Rd or trying to cross Kew Bridge, the route is plagued by traffic in Kingston, passing thru Richmond, the notorious Kew Bridge, and crossing the A4 into South Ealing from Brentford, before reaching Ealing Broadway. I only used it as a last resort when I lived in Brentford. As for these kerblines, there's some near me in Bush Hill Park, can't stand them... now they have a built in cycle lane so cyclists don't have to risk going round the bus, but can cycle thru any group of people at the bus stop instead  Interesting that LBC was talking about the way TfL have peed money up the wall with the cycle super highway in Victoria Embankment having to be dug up, two years after being made, to make way for building a sewer... (this chaos will last for 6 months as well)  BoJo wanted all the cycle lanes done before he left office, even though Thames Water warned him about building the "super sewer" in a short time... no wonder people are abandoning buses in certain parts of town if traffic can barely move  |
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Post by snowman on Jun 29, 2018 5:25:41 GMT
Lol don’t stress, no apology required. I’m just a staunch RATP defender This may be false memory syndrome, but I seem to remember that at one time a long time ago, when the 65 ran Ealing to Chessington, there were times of the day/days of the week, or whatever, that it ran in two distinct sections, Ealing to Richmond (?) and Kingston to Chessington, with another route (71?) filling the gap in the middle. Is this a figment of my fevered imagination? I have very few personal memories of the 65, unfortunately.Put me out of my misery. The 65 in those days would have been worked by Turnham Green (V) and Norbiton (NB), so feasible from that point of view. There is an excellent website by Mr Ian Armstrong with route history originally had info since since 1950s, but earlier history has more recently been added. You are correct, at one time 65 started as far North as Perivale Lane, and had some workings South to Leatherhead. Appears PVR hit 60 in late 1940s www.londonbuses.co.uk/_routes/current/065.htmlEffectively route is now in 4 parts, 65, 71, 465 (part) and E2 (part), the E2 having replaced part 273 |
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Post by riverside on Jun 29, 2018 16:01:22 GMT
Lol don’t stress, no apology required. I’m just a staunch RATP defender This may be false memory syndrome, but I seem to remember that at one time a long time ago, when the 65 ran Ealing to Chessington, there were times of the day/days of the week, or whatever, that it ran in two distinct sections, Ealing to Richmond (?) and Kingston to Chessington, with another route (71?) filling the gap in the middle. Is this a figment of my fevered imagination? I have very few personal memories of the 65, unfortunately.Put me out of my misery. The 65 in those days would have been worked by Turnham Green (V) and Norbiton (NB), so feasible from that point of view. The traditional 65 ran between Ealing(Argyle Road) and Leatherhead but years ago there was also a 265 that ran from East Acton to Chessington(Copt Gilders). At certain times of the day (I think Mon-Fri off peaks) the 265 had no through service and operated in two distinct sections. At the northern end of the route the 265 ran from East Acton to Kew Green, whilst at the south end it ran from Kingston to Copt Gilders with no service in between. I think it was in 1965 that the 265 was replaced by the introduction of the 27A between Teddington Station and East Acton at its northern end and a daily service being operated on the 65A via Copt Gilders. The other route that had a similar operation in the 1970s was the 141 on Saturdays when WN buses ran from Wood Green to Moorgate and NX buses between Elephant and Brockley Rise with no service between Moorgate and Elephant. |
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Post by busaholic on Jun 29, 2018 20:59:33 GMT
This may be false memory syndrome, but I seem to remember that at one time a long time ago, when the 65 ran Ealing to Chessington, there were times of the day/days of the week, or whatever, that it ran in two distinct sections, Ealing to Richmond (?) and Kingston to Chessington, with another route (71?) filling the gap in the middle. Is this a figment of my fevered imagination? I have very few personal memories of the 65, unfortunately.Put me out of my misery. The 65 in those days would have been worked by Turnham Green (V) and Norbiton (NB), so feasible from that point of view. The traditional 65 ran between Ealing(Argyle Road) and Leatherhead but years ago there was also a 265 that ran from East Acton to Chessington(Copt Gilders). At certain times of the day (I think Mon-Fri off peaks) the 265 had no through service and operated in two distinct sections. At the northern end of the route the 265 ran from East Acton to Kew Green, whilst at the south end it ran from Kingston to Copt Gilders with no service in between. I think it was in 1965 that the 265 was replaced by the introduction of the 27A between Teddington Station and East Acton at its northern end and a daily service being operated on the 65A via Copt Gilders. The other route that had a similar operation in the 1970s was the 141 on Saturdays when WN buses ran from Wood Green to Moorgate and NX buses between Elephant and Brockley Rise with no service between Moorgate and Elephant. Glad to know senility hasn't got a complete hold yet.  That was obviously what I was thinking of. The route that takes the absolute biscuit with this sort of thing was the tram replacement 182 Cannon Street to Woolwich via Eltham (basically shadowing the 21 and then the 161). I have (mostly) vague childhood memories of this route, as my grandmother lived in Well Hall Road, and it was worked by pre-war RTs for the first few years. Anyway, quite a long route and one that operated seven days a week, including evenings. However, the only section of route that was worked at all times of the day and every day of the week was the half mile or so in Eltham between the Church and Well Hall Station, for a time in the 1950s. Actually, even Ian Armstrong's estimable and marvellous site doesn't quite list all the permutations of the time, because if an evening service appeared or disappeared at a weekend, say, with no allocation or type change, then it wouldn't necessarily feature, and there's one variation known to me that doesn't feature.
It was great when the 141 got a full through service on Saturdays later on, the only time that WN buses got through to Grove Park, I think?
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Jun 30, 2018 17:32:26 GMT
I thought I'd just review a few garages with spare space now or later this year. There may be additional examples. This could offer clues as to routes more likely to be able to change hands. I won't give any such route numbers here though!
Stagecoach BK, WH
Arriva EC
Metroline HD, PA, PV, ON
RATP AV, TV
Tower Transit X
Go-Ahead C, MB, BX, Q, NP
Abellio BC, QB
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Post by VWH1414 on Jun 30, 2018 17:42:02 GMT
I thought I'd just review a few garages with spare space now or later this year. There may be additional examples. This could offer clues as to routes more likely to be able to change hands. I won't give any such route numbers here though! Metroline HD, PA, PV, ON With soon to come tenders, Metroline could make use of some of this space. Some ideas I have: 102 could be gained from W, and the 266 moves to one of PA/PV/ON (Most suitable shuffle I can think of, without disrupting multiple routes) Another I can think of is E3 to ON maybe? or maybe a shuffle to allow it to go to another garage Then maybe at a stretch the 27 could go to PA/PV Not that I am expecting this to happen, just possible ideas. |
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Post by Hassaan on Jun 30, 2018 17:56:17 GMT
I thought I'd just review a few garages with spare space now or later this year. There may be additional examples. This could offer clues as to routes more likely to be able to change hands. I won't give any such route numbers here though! Metroline HD, PA, PV, ON With soon to come tenders, Metroline could make use of some of this space. Some ideas I have: 102 could be gained from W, and the 266 moves to one of PA/PV/ON (Most suitable shuffle I can think of, without disrupting multiple routes) Another I can think of is E3 to ON maybe? or maybe a shuffle to allow it to go to another garage Then maybe at a stretch the 27 could go to PA/PV Not that I am expecting this to happen, just possible ideas. If Metroline get the E3 then it will probably end up in G, possibly with something else moving elsewhere (e.g. 95 to PA, which their most recent VW blinds do have included on there just in case) |
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Post by twobellstogo on Jun 30, 2018 21:55:21 GMT
I thought I'd just review a few garages with spare space now or later this year. There may be additional examples. This could offer clues as to routes more likely to be able to change hands. I won't give any such route numbers here though! Stagecoach BK, WH Arriva EC Metroline HD, PA, PV, ON RATP AV, TV Tower Transit X Go-Ahead C, MB, BX, Q, NP Abellio BC, QB Would the opening of KB a while back by Stagecoach mean there’s a little space now at TL? |
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Post by vjaska on Jun 30, 2018 22:19:20 GMT
I thought I'd just review a few garages with spare space now or later this year. There may be additional examples. This could offer clues as to routes more likely to be able to change hands. I won't give any such route numbers here though! Stagecoach BK, WH Arriva EC Metroline HD, PA, PV, ON RATP AV, TV Tower Transit X Go-Ahead C, MB, BX, Q, NP Abellio BC, QB Would the opening of KB a while back by Stagecoach mean there’s a little space now at TL? There should be as the 354 moved to TB & 356 moved to KR/KB with the 386 taking up their space at TL except that was lost to Go-Ahead so there should be a small amount spare  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2018 7:46:30 GMT
Wanted to put this in ‘buses in the news’ section but didn’t want to start a thread on something that would die out quickly so hope the mods don’t mind me putting this snippet here. Haven’t seen the vid yet (don’t think the missus would be happy at me listening to audio next to her on a Sunday morning!)
Hassaan was that your tweet they posted?
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Post by Hassaan on Jul 1, 2018 9:50:07 GMT
Wanted to put this in ‘buses in the news’ section but didn’t want to start a thread on something that would die out quickly so hope the mods don’t mind me putting this snippet here. Haven’t seen the vid yet (don’t think the missus would be happy at me listening to audio next to her on a Sunday morning!) Hassaan was that your tweet they posted? I'm not aware of anything being shared? Certainly haven't posted any video recently  |
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Post by enviroPB on Jul 1, 2018 13:44:45 GMT
So I was out last night....started in Ladbroke Grove yesterday afternoon, went to Soho/Leicester Square in the late evening, and I told my mate I'd see him in Hackney but I delayed leaving central London so I got to Homerton around 2. He didn't appreciate this late night visit, so I was walking towards the N26 bus stop on Morning Lane heading home until I approached a Jenny Public standing at the 30 & 425 bus stop; looking somewhat impatient. As I knew there's no night buses at this particular stop nor would there be a bus scheduled for the better part of 4 hours, I decided to inform her of that so she'd actually make some headway going home. At first she was apprehensive of a stranger trying to give her directions in a place she looked totally unfamiliar with. After I initially gave her directions to Edmonton, she asked if I would walk with her. It was a very reluctant yes, but better I go out of my way than someone with malicious intentions approach her. We didn't talk much; she was constantly checking over her shoulder for a bus that wasn't running so I assured her that I knew my way by stating my previous jobs as a delivery cyclist & telling her what roads we were traversing. She then divulged her friend was supposed to pick her up for a party in Catford but completely fobbed her off by going home and leaving her stranded. It wasn't a long walk to Hackney Town Hall, but we got there and she was relieved seeing other people outside the Empire. After being apprehensive to me initially, Dee wanted me to wait for her whilst her bus was waiting. I declined as her bus was in 5 minutes, and knew the N277 was due from remembering the timetable; so we said our goodbyes, almost immediately got on the bus and we waved to each other as the bus was pulling away. I hope I reaffirmed to her that it's really hard to get stranded in London; goodness knows how long she was waiting but a meagre 10 minute walk can drag you out of sole isolation to nighttime district within a matter of moments. And as I said before: I knew no bus was coming at that bus stop she was waiting at. If any local with malintentions sussed that out, then maybe she wouldn't have gotten home at all. But that didn't happen and I helped her get home safely so happy faces all round. |
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Post by busaholic on Jul 1, 2018 13:53:05 GMT
So I was out last night....started in Ladbroke Grove yesterday afternoon, went to Soho/Leicester Square in the late evening, and I told my mate I'd see him in Hackney but I delayed leaving central London so I got to Homerton around 2. He didn't appreciate this late night visit, so I was walking towards the N26 bus stop on Morning Lane heading home until I approached a Jenny Public standing at the 30 & 425 bus stop; looking somewhat impatient. As I knew there's no night buses at this particular stop nor would there be a bus scheduled for the better part of 4 hours, I decided to inform her of that so she'd actually make some headway going home. At first she was apprehensive of a stranger trying to give her directions in a place she looked totally unfamiliar with. After I initially gave her directions to Edmonton, she asked if I would walk with her. It was a very reluctant yes, but better I go out of my way than someone with malicious intentions approach her. We didn't talk much; she was constantly checking over her shoulder for a bus that wasn't running so I assured her that I knew my way by stating my previous jobs as a delivery cyclist & telling her what roads we were traversing. She then divulged her friend was supposed to pick her up for a party in Catford but completely fobbed her off by going home and leaving her stranded. It wasn't a long walk to Hackney Town Hall, but we got there and she was relieved seeing other people outside the Empire. After being apprehensive to me initially, Dee wanted me to wait for her whilst her bus was waiting. I declined as her bus was in 5 minutes, and knew the N277 was due from remembering the timetable; so we said our goodbyes, almost immediately got on the bus and we waved to each other as the bus was pulling away. I hope I reaffirmed to her that it's really hard to get stranded in London; goodness knows how long she was waiting but a meagre 10 minute walk can drag you out of sole isolation to nighttime district within a matter of moments. And as I said before: I knew no bus was coming at that bus stop she was waiting at. If any local with malintentions sussed that out, then maybe she wouldn't have gotten home at all. But that didn't happen and I helped her get home safely so happy faces all round. I don't want to be patronising, but you did absolutely the right thing, so well done. |
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Post by snoggle on Jul 1, 2018 14:10:05 GMT
For those of you on Twitter you may wish to participate in this tweet session with London Travelwatch on Monday 2/7. I'm just drafting a 5,000 word essay to send them.  |
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Post by snoggle on Jul 1, 2018 14:15:50 GMT
So I was out last night....started in Ladbroke Grove yesterday afternoon, went to Soho/Leicester Square in the late evening, and I told my mate I'd see him in Hackney but I delayed leaving central London so I got to Homerton around 2. He didn't appreciate this late night visit, so I was walking towards the N26 bus stop on Morning Lane heading home until I approached a Jenny Public standing at the 30 & 425 bus stop; looking somewhat impatient. As I knew there's no night buses at this particular stop nor would there be a bus scheduled for the better part of 4 hours, I decided to inform her of that so she'd actually make some headway going home. At first she was apprehensive of a stranger trying to give her directions in a place she looked totally unfamiliar with. After I initially gave her directions to Edmonton, she asked if I would walk with her. It was a very reluctant yes, but better I go out of my way than someone with malicious intentions approach her. We didn't talk much; she was constantly checking over her shoulder for a bus that wasn't running so I assured her that I knew my way by stating my previous jobs as a delivery cyclist & telling her what roads we were traversing. She then divulged her friend was supposed to pick her up for a party in Catford but completely fobbed her off by going home and leaving her stranded. It wasn't a long walk to Hackney Town Hall, but we got there and she was relieved seeing other people outside the Empire. After being apprehensive to me initially, Dee wanted me to wait for her whilst her bus was waiting. I declined as her bus was in 5 minutes, and knew the N277 was due from remembering the timetable; so we said our goodbyes, almost immediately got on the bus and we waved to each other as the bus was pulling away. I hope I reaffirmed to her that it's really hard to get stranded in London; goodness knows how long she was waiting but a meagre 10 minute walk can drag you out of sole isolation to nighttime district within a matter of moments. And as I said before: I knew no bus was coming at that bus stop she was waiting at. If any local with malintentions sussed that out, then maybe she wouldn't have gotten home at all. But that didn't happen and I helped her get home safely so happy faces all round. Always difficult to judge those situations. Night time's bad enough but plenty of people manage to get themselves lost during the day with plenty of people around. I remain amazed at some people's lack of ability to suss out a situation and find some help. I'm not referring here to people with either obvious or hidden impairments, just people who struggle with spatial awareness and navigation and finding clues to allow them to get to where they're going. |
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Interesting that LBC was talking about the way TfL have peed money up the wall with the cycle super highway in Victoria Embankment having to be dug up, two years after being made, to make way for building a sewer... (this chaos will last for 6 months as well) 
BoJo wanted all the cycle lanes done before he left office, even though Thames Water warned him about building the "super sewer" in a short time... no wonder people are abandoning buses in certain parts of town if traffic can barely move 
That was obviously what I was thinking of. The route that takes the absolute biscuit with this sort of thing was the tram replacement 182 Cannon Street to Woolwich via Eltham (basically shadowing the 21 and then the 161). I have (mostly) vague childhood memories of this route, as my grandmother lived in Well Hall Road, and it was worked by pre-war RTs for the first few years. Anyway, quite a long route and one that operated seven days a week, including evenings. However, the only section of route that was worked at all times of the day and every day of the week was the half mile or so in Eltham between the Church and Well Hall Station, for a time in the 1950s. Actually, even Ian Armstrong's estimable and marvellous site doesn't quite list all the permutations of the time, because if an evening service appeared or disappeared at a weekend, say, with no allocation or type change, then it wouldn't necessarily feature, and there's one variation known to me that doesn't feature.
