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Post by cl54 on Oct 1, 2018 21:59:28 GMT
The point I made in my original post is that buses used to be favoured at the traffic lights because of the busways. This appears to have gone and hence the reason for my post. Used to drive the 161 and found the pilot bus way to be unfriendly to buses Well it's going soon. Will become a standard dual carriageway with bus lanes. To make it easier for car drivers. |
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Post by vjaska on Oct 1, 2018 22:01:50 GMT
Is anyone else having issues with LVF running slow over the last few days? I find the first search is fine then it seems to hang. So it's not just me then - was thinking it was my connection  |
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Post by snoggle on Oct 1, 2018 22:58:28 GMT
But surely this is nothing out of the ordinary? It's commonplace for buses to take a few minutes to load up at North Greenwich at busy times and the traffic lights are something that should be factored into the timetable. The point I made in my original post is that buses used to be favoured at the traffic lights because of the busways. This appears to have gone and hence the reason for my post. I've not been to NOG for a fair while but there has been a lot of commentary on social media about the appalling traffic conditions in and around the retail park that the 472 and 486 serve - just past where IKEA will be and before the new Sainsburys. That traffic won't be helping matters. I suspect that every bus service serving the Peninsula or touching East Greenwich / Westcombe Park will have to be rescheduled as development steps up further and IKEA opens. The traffic impact of IKEA will be horrendous as it will suck in people over a wide area. With no money for extra resources you can expect frequency cuts instead. Ironically weekends will be worse than weekdays given the "pulling power" of IKEA. And as for scrapping the busway that's mad. It was never brilliant because of the daft lack of traffic light priority but turning it into a dual carriageway is ludicrous and all because pedestrians are a bit thick and can't cope with two roads in close proximity.   |
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Post by redbus on Oct 1, 2018 23:00:16 GMT
Why does the route controller not arrange for that in the first place? Good question! I'm sure controllers have their own priorities and customer care isn't one of them and that is left to the driver to deal with. In general I would expect the passengers already on the bus to have some kind of priority and consideration. They have already paid their fare expecting the bus to take them to their destination. I agree with those against turns being decided en route except for exceptional circumstances. Sure stuff happens from time to time and that is when you may have those exceptional circumstances. The controller should be thinking about those already on the bus when considering a turn en route. How many passengers are on the bus, so how many might be affected by the early turn? How long will the passengers have to wait for a through bus? Allowing a through bus to pass with a long wait behind for the next one is just unacceptable. The controller should ensure passengers can transfer to the through bus before it overtakes, this is just basic customer service. |
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Post by busman on Oct 2, 2018 1:08:44 GMT
The point I made in my original post is that buses used to be favoured at the traffic lights because of the busways. This appears to have gone and hence the reason for my post. I've not been to NOG for a fair while but there has been a lot of commentary on social media about the appalling traffic conditions in and around the retail park that the 472 and 486 serve - just past where IKEA will be and before the new Sainsburys. That traffic won't be helping matters. I suspect that every bus service serving the Peninsula or touching East Greenwich / Westcombe Park will have to be rescheduled as development steps up further and IKEA opens. The traffic impact of IKEA will be horrendous as it will suck in people over a wide area. With no money for extra resources you can expect frequency cuts instead. Ironically weekends will be worse than weekdays given the "pulling power" of IKEA. And as for scrapping the busway that's mad. It was never brilliant because of the daft lack of traffic light priority but turning it into a dual carriageway is ludicrous and all because pedestrians are a bit thick and can't cope with two roads in close proximity. Don’t forget the new shopping mall opening up at the O2 and the ever increasing housing being built in the area. I’m fully expecting frequencies “reduced to improve reliability” on 180, 472 and 486 over the next 12 months or so. |
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Post by busman on Oct 2, 2018 1:19:58 GMT
Used to drive the 161 and found the pilot bus way to be unfriendly to buses Well it's going soon. Will become a standard dual carriageway with bus lanes. To make it easier for car drivers. Actually it’s to make it safer for pedestrians. Quite a few people would step into the roads not expecting 2 way traffic. I’m surprised that the confusing layout has lasted so long. The change should be much better all round for everyone. |
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Post by sid on Oct 2, 2018 5:00:30 GMT
Good question! I'm sure controllers have their own priorities and customer care isn't one of them and that is left to the driver to deal with. In general I would expect the passengers already on the bus to have some kind of priority and consideration. They have already paid their fare expecting the bus to take them to their destination. I agree with those against turns being decided en route except for exceptional circumstances. Sure stuff happens from time to time and that is when you may have those exceptional circumstances. The controller should be thinking about those already on the bus when considering a turn en route. How many passengers are on the bus, so how many might be affected by the early turn? How long will the passengers have to wait for a through bus? Allowing a through bus to pass with a long wait behind for the next one is just unacceptable. The controller should ensure passengers can transfer to the through bus before it overtakes, this is just basic customer service. I totally agree and it's about time TfL put their foot down on such practices, once the journey has commenced the bus should continue to its advertised destination except in extreme circumstances such as the X26 that I mentioned. Certainly on a fairly local route like the 486 there are other ways to get the bus back on time such as continuing to Bexleyheath and on the next trip running out of service to North Greenwich or a point on the route where the bus is back on time. I really can't imagine any other business treating customers with such contempt and TfL wonder why people are abandoning bus travel. |
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Post by sid on Oct 2, 2018 5:07:52 GMT
The point I made in my original post is that buses used to be favoured at the traffic lights because of the busways. This appears to have gone and hence the reason for my post. I've not been to NOG for a fair while but there has been a lot of commentary on social media about the appalling traffic conditions in and around the retail park that the 472 and 486 serve - just past where IKEA will be and before the new Sainsburys. That traffic won't be helping matters. I suspect that every bus service serving the Peninsula or touching East Greenwich / Westcombe Park will have to be rescheduled as development steps up further and IKEA opens. The traffic impact of IKEA will be horrendous as it will suck in people over a wide area. With no money for extra resources you can expect frequency cuts instead. Ironically weekends will be worse than weekdays given the "pulling power" of IKEA. And as for scrapping the busway that's mad. It was never brilliant because of the daft lack of traffic light priority but turning it into a dual carriageway is ludicrous and all because pedestrians are a bit thick and can't cope with two roads in close proximity. A bit thick? I would have thought improving safety was a good thing? I'll reserve judgment until I see the finished product but as others have alluded to the new arrangements will probably be an improvement for everybody contrary the predictable doom mongering on here. |
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Post by Pilot on Oct 2, 2018 8:55:17 GMT
I think in half the cases the turn is usually worth it, you have to consider those cases where the driver is due to be finished (after 8-9hours shift) already and do you really want to put extra 1-1/2 hours on his shoulders to carry all those people to destination and then back to do the driver swap? Because in most cases it's traffic that gets you turned and a simple 2-5 miles can turn into hours...that said I do agree what others said, I wish at least the controllers told the estimated time for the drivers of the bus behind so that you could inform the passengers rather than just leave them in the middle of nowhere turn wishing them best of luck, would be really professional of driver to know how far is the next bus and iBus never bothers with it...nor will they respond because if you get turned chances are they're too busy to call you back anyways.
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Post by sid on Oct 2, 2018 9:16:44 GMT
I think in half the cases the turn is usually worth it, you have to consider those cases where the driver is due to be finished (after 8-9hours shift) already and do you really want to put extra 1-1/2 hours on his shoulders to carry all those people to destination and then back to do the driver swap? Because in most cases it's traffic that gets you turned and a simple 2-5 miles can turn into hours...that said I do agree what others said, I wish at least the controllers told the estimated time for the drivers of the bus behind so that you could inform the passengers rather than just leave them in the middle of nowhere turn wishing them best of luck, would be really professional of driver to know how far is the next bus and iBus never bothers with it...nor will they respond because if you get turned chances are they're too busy to call you back anyways. In some cases there is no alternative but I doubt if it's anywhere near half. In the incident mentioned on the 486 the driver obviously wasn't due to finish or the bus wouldn't have been turned at Welling so why not let the bus continue to Bexleyheath and then curtail it at Charlton on the next trip or run it out of service to North Greenwich to get back on time? I can't recall ever being on a bus outside of London that has been curtailed mid journey, this seems to be something that has been just accepted in London and passengers have had to like it or lump it in the past. Nowadays Uber and the like offer a viable alternative and unless TfL start addressing problems like this the decline in usage and subsequent cuts in services are likely to continue. Imagine getting into a taxi and the driver stops mid journey and says he's been told to wait a while in order to regulate the service, you then go a bit further and he then announces that the destination of the taxi has changed and you'll have to get out and wait for another taxi because he's been told to go and pick somebody else up elsewhere! |
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Post by Pilot on Oct 2, 2018 9:30:23 GMT
I think in half the cases the turn is usually worth it, you have to consider those cases where the driver is due to be finished (after 8-9hours shift) already and do you really want to put extra 1-1/2 hours on his shoulders to carry all those people to destination and then back to do the driver swap? Because in most cases it's traffic that gets you turned and a simple 2-5 miles can turn into hours...that said I do agree what others said, I wish at least the controllers told the estimated time for the drivers of the bus behind so that you could inform the passengers rather than just leave them in the middle of nowhere turn wishing them best of luck, would be really professional of driver to know how far is the next bus and iBus never bothers with it...nor will they respond because if you get turned chances are they're too busy to call you back anyways. In some cases there is no alternative but I doubt if it's anywhere near half. In the incident mentioned on the 486 the driver obviously wasn't due to finish or the bus wouldn't have been turned at Welling so why not let the bus continue to Bexleyheath and then curtail it at Charlton on the next trip or run it out of service to North Greenwich to get back on time? I can't recall ever being on a bus outside of London that has been curtailed mid journey, this seems to be something that has been just accepted in London and passengers have had to like it or lump it in the past. Nowadays Uber and the like offer a viable alternative and unless TfL start addressing problems like this the decline in usage and subsequent cuts in services are likely to continue. It's kinda funny I guess how TFL issues these uber licenses and the amount of private hire vehicles we got on the streets is what is causing 30% if not more of the traffic on London roads...(I guessed that percentage) Would more buses on a route solve this issue do you think? I haven't seen that many turned buses on very high frequency buses, it's always the case with the every 10-12 minute buses. Just can't think of a solution. |
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Post by vjaska on Oct 2, 2018 9:45:25 GMT
In some cases there is no alternative but I doubt if it's anywhere near half. In the incident mentioned on the 486 the driver obviously wasn't due to finish or the bus wouldn't have been turned at Welling so why not let the bus continue to Bexleyheath and then curtail it at Charlton on the next trip or run it out of service to North Greenwich to get back on time? I can't recall ever being on a bus outside of London that has been curtailed mid journey, this seems to be something that has been just accepted in London and passengers have had to like it or lump it in the past. Nowadays Uber and the like offer a viable alternative and unless TfL start addressing problems like this the decline in usage and subsequent cuts in services are likely to continue. It's kinda funny I guess how TFL issues these uber licenses and the amount of private hire vehicles we got on the streets is what is causing 30% if not more of the traffic on London roads...(I guessed that percentage) Would more buses on a route solve this issue do you think? I haven't seen that many turned buses on very high frequency buses, it's always the case with the every 10-12 minute buses. Just can't think of a solution. Some high frequency routes see lots of turns though it generally depends on the traffic conditions of that day. As I brought up the original point, I'll clarify my opinion a bit further - I don't have a problem with buses being turned but it's when the turned bus is overtaken by the through bus leaving passengers with a longer wait to continue the journey, as you said above, is what infuriates me. Turns are needed because many routes are subject to terrible traffic conditions which as you also mention, easily add on lots of time but it's the way turns are handled that needs to change. |
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Post by vjaska on Oct 2, 2018 9:47:55 GMT
I think in half the cases the turn is usually worth it, you have to consider those cases where the driver is due to be finished (after 8-9hours shift) already and do you really want to put extra 1-1/2 hours on his shoulders to carry all those people to destination and then back to do the driver swap? Because in most cases it's traffic that gets you turned and a simple 2-5 miles can turn into hours...that said I do agree what others said, I wish at least the controllers told the estimated time for the drivers of the bus behind so that you could inform the passengers rather than just leave them in the middle of nowhere turn wishing them best of luck, would be really professional of driver to know how far is the next bus and iBus never bothers with it...nor will they respond because if you get turned chances are they're too busy to call you back anyways. In some cases there is no alternative but I doubt if it's anywhere near half. In the incident mentioned on the 486 the driver obviously wasn't due to finish or the bus wouldn't have been turned at Welling so why not let the bus continue to Bexleyheath and then curtail it at Charlton on the next trip or run it out of service to North Greenwich to get back on time? I can't recall ever being on a bus outside of London that has been curtailed mid journey, this seems to be something that has been just accepted in London and passengers have had to like it or lump it in the past. Nowadays Uber and the like offer a viable alternative and unless TfL start addressing problems like this the decline in usage and subsequent cuts in services are likely to continue. Imagine getting into a taxi and the driver stops mid journey and says he's been told to wait a while in order to regulate the service, you then go a bit further and he then announces that the destination of the taxi has changed and you'll have to get out and wait for another taxi because he's been told to go and pick somebody else up elsewhere! Curtailments happen outside London, just not as frequently most likely because even the worse traffic conditions aren't on the same scale compared to London. |
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Post by sid on Oct 2, 2018 10:17:54 GMT
In some cases there is no alternative but I doubt if it's anywhere near half. In the incident mentioned on the 486 the driver obviously wasn't due to finish or the bus wouldn't have been turned at Welling so why not let the bus continue to Bexleyheath and then curtail it at Charlton on the next trip or run it out of service to North Greenwich to get back on time? I can't recall ever being on a bus outside of London that has been curtailed mid journey, this seems to be something that has been just accepted in London and passengers have had to like it or lump it in the past. Nowadays Uber and the like offer a viable alternative and unless TfL start addressing problems like this the decline in usage and subsequent cuts in services are likely to continue. It's kinda funny I guess how TFL issues these uber licenses and the amount of private hire vehicles we got on the streets is what is causing 30% if not more of the traffic on London roads...(I guessed that percentage) Would more buses on a route solve this issue do you think? I haven't seen that many turned buses on very high frequency buses, it's always the case with the every 10-12 minute buses. Just can't think of a solution. I'm not sure there is a simple solution but TfL really need to buck their ideas up in the customer service department or Uber will be taking more customers off them. It's not so much turned buses but buses that are turned mid journey, obviously if it's blinded as a short working from the outset passengers know the situation. |
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Post by Pilot on Oct 2, 2018 10:41:03 GMT
I don't think uber will get more customers to be honest because first of all anyone who uses uber knows that during peak times (when you want to avoid bus) it's pointless to get uber as it will be twice as slow than public transport, and 7 times more expensive. (At least in London)
Just the other day I happen to see packed bus stops, figured you know what I'll try to get uber home (INB4 ban from forum). I check the prices and for 2.5 miles it was £20-25 (no joke, black cab would probably be even cheaper) on top of that a 30 minute wait and you'll just be sitting in traffic...so I just got into 2 different buses and got home probably quicker that it would have been...ofc that's because my bus wasn't curtailed...(Actually it was d*mn this is so ironic...but it had blinds set already before I got on so I knew I'd reach my destination anyways though). Basically said, I think uber will be struggling soon due to congestion...at which point TFL is really gonna start thinking of some solutions fast for the bus performances.
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