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Post by redbus on Nov 13, 2018 16:33:56 GMT
To be honest the conductors have always seemed a bit unenthusiastic. it didn't happen overnight, but I'd say within a year of the announcement that the remaining 500 or so Routemasters were on a death sentence virtually no conductor I ever experienced bothered to collect fares, most never venturing upstairs and, when offered cash (as was still taken then, how quaint  ) by passengers as they left the bus, either made a desultory ticket issue and immediately threw it away or, well, didn't! The cull started with the 15, as it happened, until its end with the 159. Lazy conductors always existed, but I'd say were in a minority and would be quickly found out by inspectors. To be honest I used the 13 regularly in the run up to it losing its Routemasters and virtually every conductor did the job diligently and collected fares. Maybe other routes were different.
The 15H seems a bit hit and miss with loadings, so if fares are not being recorded there's no guarantee any survey will be accurate. That's the danger with hit and miss loadings that are not consistent.
I appreciate that last Sunday was much busier at it was remembrance Sunday. Nevertheless the normal 15s could not cope without the 15H, but what was obvious was that many had a preference for the 15H over the 15.
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Post by busaholic on Nov 13, 2018 18:16:46 GMT
it didn't happen overnight, but I'd say within a year of the announcement that the remaining 500 or so Routemasters were on a death sentence virtually no conductor I ever experienced bothered to collect fares, most never venturing upstairs and, when offered cash (as was still taken then, how quaint ) by passengers as they left the bus, either made a desultory ticket issue and immediately threw it away or, well, didn't! The cull started with the 15, as it happened, until its end with the 159. Lazy conductors always existed, but I'd say were in a minority and would be quickly found out by inspectors. To be honest I used the 13 regularly in the run up to it losing its Routemasters and virtually every conductor did the job diligently and collected fares. Maybe other routes were different.
The 15H seems a bit hit and miss with loadings, so if fares are not being recorded there's no guarantee any survey will be accurate. That's the danger with hit and miss loadings that are not consistent.
I appreciate that last Sunday was much busier at it was remembrance Sunday. Nevertheless the normal 15s could not cope without the 15H, but what was obvious was that many had a preference for the 15H over the 15.
The 13 was different in so many ways! I admit I hardly used it in the last few years, other than the occasional trip along Regent Street. Another factor that ought to be mentioned is the notorious murder of a conscientious conductor on the 38 (iirc) at a time when opo drivers had been given protection and (I suspect) at least unofficially conductors were assured their lives were more important than the fares, so, if one was offered, take it, but otherwise.... There may even have been another murder before that, as I saw one referenced in a news report at the time. Those last Routemaster routes included ones which went to Hackney, Stoke Newington, West Kilburn,, Brixton, Camberwell and Dulwich and, perhaps most importantly, those routes WEREN'T opoed in the evenings, unlike others. Please don't anyone accuse me of scapegoating those areas: an attack can occur anywhere, as I'm well aware. For a period in my life I changed direction and worked for the Probation Service in Kent and I was amazed on my first day to be told the biggest drug problem in the county was in leafy Tunbridge Wells, rather than Chatham or seemingly more likely candidates! |
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Post by vjaska on Nov 13, 2018 19:13:57 GMT
it didn't happen overnight, but I'd say within a year of the announcement that the remaining 500 or so Routemasters were on a death sentence virtually no conductor I ever experienced bothered to collect fares, most never venturing upstairs and, when offered cash (as was still taken then, how quaint ) by passengers as they left the bus, either made a desultory ticket issue and immediately threw it away or, well, didn't! The cull started with the 15, as it happened, until its end with the 159. Lazy conductors always existed, but I'd say were in a minority and would be quickly found out by inspectors. To be honest I used the 13 regularly in the run up to it losing its Routemasters and virtually every conductor did the job diligently and collected fares. Maybe other routes were different.
The 15H seems a bit hit and miss with loadings, so if fares are not being recorded there's no guarantee any survey will be accurate. That's the danger with hit and miss loadings that are not consistent.
I appreciate that last Sunday was much busier at it was remembrance Sunday. Nevertheless the normal 15s could not cope without the 15H, but what was obvious was that many had a preference for the 15H over the 15.
The 137 & 159 were very mixed when it came to conductors collecting fares so much so that many people would purposely wait for a 159 just to increase their chance of a free ride. |
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Post by redbus on Nov 14, 2018 23:03:48 GMT
Another way of looking at this is its the first stop so always busy (Seems so when ever I use the 15) also must have been a lot more tourist / people up London for Remembrance Sunday as you said.
Up until about 5 or so years ago I see to see people go out of there way to ride a Routemaster but people don't seem that fussed any more especially since the LT entered service. If the 15 needs help I would much rather it be covered by a conventional bus which must be more cost effective. I know TfL don't like short journeys but would be interesting to see a cost comparison of providing the same 15H service using normal buses.
I think the 15H’ cost per mile was around £25(!) - extortionately high where as the 15 was £6.60 by comparison according to recent TfL stats I find the cost per mile of the 15H to be inexplicable. Something is going on that I do not understand. In 2005 the cost per mile was £10.69, in 2010 it was £17.54 and in 2015 it went to £25.40. These are not normal increases. Perhaps someone else can explain them. Remember the cost in 2005 included conductors which I thought was the key difference to other routes.
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Post by SILENCED on Nov 14, 2018 23:24:51 GMT
I think the 15H’ cost per mile was around £25(!) - extortionately high where as the 15 was £6.60 by comparison according to recent TfL stats I find the cost per mile of the 15H to be inexplicable. Something is going on that I do not understand. In 2005 the cost per mile was £10.69, in 2010 it was £17.54 and in 2015 it went to £25.40. These are not normal increases. Perhaps someone else can explain them. Remember the cost in 2005 included conductors which I thought was the key difference to other routes.
Guessing soring insurance costs for open platform operation? |
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Post by redbus on Nov 14, 2018 23:42:26 GMT
I find the cost per mile of the 15H to be inexplicable. Something is going on that I do not understand. In 2005 the cost per mile was £10.69, in 2010 it was £17.54 and in 2015 it went to £25.40. These are not normal increases. Perhaps someone else can explain them. Remember the cost in 2005 included conductors which I thought was the key difference to other routes.
Guessing soring insurance costs for open platform operation? That doesn't add up to me. The insurance for open platform was needed just as much in 2005 as 2015. The costs have gone up two and half times, insurance can't be responsible for that, being more expensive than the cost of the whole service which had more buses back in 2005.
Also surely the when NB4L had customer service assistants and an open platform they would have had the same insurance issues?
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Post by redexpress on Nov 15, 2018 5:36:47 GMT
I think the 15H’ cost per mile was around £25(!) - extortionately high where as the 15 was £6.60 by comparison according to recent TfL stats I find the cost per mile of the 15H to be inexplicable. Something is going on that I do not understand. In 2005 the cost per mile was £10.69, in 2010 it was £17.54 and in 2015 it went to £25.40. These are not normal increases. Perhaps someone else can explain them. Remember the cost in 2005 included conductors which I thought was the key difference to other routes.
The frequency was reduced from 4bph to 3bph in 2015, but with no change to the PVR (this was the year that much of central London ground to a halt because of various works). So you now have the same number of buses covering fewer miles, which at least partly explains the jump in cost per mile in 2015. |
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Post by 6HP502C on Nov 15, 2018 7:55:10 GMT
Those last Routemaster routes included ones which went to Hackney, Stoke Newington, West Kilburn,, Brixton, Camberwell and Dulwich and, perhaps most importantly, those routes WEREN'T opoed in the evenings, unlike others. Please don't anyone accuse me of scapegoating those areas: an attack can occur anywhere, as I'm well aware. What's wrong with Dulwich? Lived there for 20 years and didn't have it down as a problem area like the others could be seen as! |
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Post by galwhv69 on Nov 15, 2018 17:52:40 GMT
Not sure where to put this,but can someone shed some light on YN07LHD?
I think its now with National Express after being at Stephensons after being at Raeding after being with Transdev
Is this the only example of led's in london apart from the 4 Titans (I think) at Q for the night spares (withdrawn) BU13ZVE,the Stagecoach MMC's & the Metroline Solo's?
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Post by busaholic on Nov 15, 2018 18:01:54 GMT
Those last Routemaster routes included ones which went to Hackney, Stoke Newington, West Kilburn,, Brixton, Camberwell and Dulwich and, perhaps most importantly, those routes WEREN'T opoed in the evenings, unlike others. Please don't anyone accuse me of scapegoating those areas: an attack can occur anywhere, as I'm well aware. What's wrong with Dulwich? Lived there for 20 years and didn't have it down as a problem area like the others could be seen as! Whoops! Meant to say Peckham. Mind you, Dulwich is a big place, East, West and North each having its own station, and Dulwich Village its own hansom cab rank, probably A long, long time ago I went out with a girl whose dad was the bicycling copper of West Dulwich and Dulwich Village, and I think he enjoyed his job for its non-stressful nature! |
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Post by redexpress on Nov 15, 2018 20:27:26 GMT
Not sure where to put this,but can someone shed some light on YN07LHD? I think its now with National Express after being at Stephensons after being at Raeding after being with Transdev Is this the only example of led's in london apart from the 4 Titans (I think) at Q for the night spares (withdrawn) BU13ZVE,the Stagecoach MMC's & the Metroline Solo's? Surprised to hear that YN07LHD may have gone to NatEx. It is still listed on Stephensons' September 2018 fleetlist. What sort of info were you after?
The Camberwell Titans didn't have LEDs - they used much older flip-dot technology. Some midibuses had similar displays in the late 80s / early 90s. |
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Post by galwhv69 on Nov 15, 2018 21:16:12 GMT
Not sure where to put this,but can someone shed some light on YN07LHD? I think its now with National Express after being at Stephensons after being at Raeding after being with Transdev Is this the only example of led's in london apart from the 4 Titans (I think) at Q for the night spares (withdrawn) BU13ZVE,the Stagecoach MMC's & the Metroline Solo's? Surprised to hear that YN07LHD may have gone to NatEx. It is still listed on Stephensons' September 2018 fleetlist. What sort of info were you after?
The Camberwell Titans didn't have LEDs - they used much older flip-dot technology. Some midibuses had similar displays in the late 80s / early 90s. My apologies,it moved to Stephensons after NatEx I was just hoping for some specs,allocations that kind of thing Of course,how could I forget that they were flipdots! |
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Post by vjaska on Nov 15, 2018 22:45:58 GMT
Surprised to hear that YN07LHD may have gone to NatEx. It is still listed on Stephensons' September 2018 fleetlist. What sort of info were you after? The Camberwell Titans didn't have LEDs - they used much older flip-dot technology. Some midibuses had similar displays in the late 80s / early 90s. My apologies,it moved to Stephensons after NatEx I was just hoping for some specs,allocations that kind of thing Of course,how could I forget that they were flipdots! It’s was a gas powered Scania Omnicity but I believe it got converted to diesel either with Reading Buses or Stephenson’s of Essex. |
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Post by redexpress on Nov 16, 2018 6:03:08 GMT
My apologies,it moved to Stephensons after NatEx I was just hoping for some specs,allocations that kind of thing Of course,how could I forget that they were flipdots! It’s was a gas powered Scania Omnicity but I believe it got converted to diesel either with Reading Buses or Stephenson’s of Essex. It was actually Ethanol-powered. Scania used to be big on Ethanol but are now pushing gas power instead. I remember travelling on the bus when it was in London, and noticed a distinct Ethanol smell near the back of the bus (not sure if it was supposed to smell that strongly)! There's a bit more info from a Reading perspective here.
YN07LHD was a demonstrator that spent some time on loan to Transdev (London United) who used it on the 148, allowing evaluation alongside the existing EuroIII OmniCities (SP1-15). The body was almost identical to the early SPs. After its time as a demonstrator it was bought by Reading, who had also ordered 14 new Ethanol-powered buses. Reading converted the bus to single-door and refitted it with nicer seats. Subsequently Reading decided to convert all of the Ethanol buses to diesel (see link above for details).
I suspect the bus must now have a EuroIII diesel engine, as the EuroIV Scania engine wouldn't fit in the original OmniCity body.
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Post by galwhv69 on Nov 16, 2018 6:51:38 GMT
Were the led's part of a trial or was it that blinds were'nt available like the new H2/3/631 Solo's
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) by passengers as they left the bus, either made a desultory ticket issue and immediately threw it away or, well, didn't! The cull started with the 15, as it happened, until its end with the 159. Lazy conductors always existed, but I'd say were in a minority and would be quickly found out by inspectors.
