Could Peter Mandelson be the answer to save Labour

[jrussa]

I was reading this article about Bendy Buses and just reading people's opinions and there was this poll next to it. The question askes; If Peter Mandelson was made Prime Minister would this attract you to the Labour party?

The results are very interesting

www.thelondondailynews.com/pollbooth.php?op=results&pollid=157

[vjaska]

Aug 16, 2009 19:44:58 GMT jrussa said:

I was reading this article about Bendy Buses and just reading people's opinions and there was this poll next to it. The question askes; If Peter Mandelson was made Prime Minister would this attract you to the Labour party?

The results are very interesting

www.thelondondailynews.com/pollbooth.php?op=results&pollid=157

Currently, no party would attract me. However, I would vote anything before even considering the BNP or the Green Party as those two parties really get up my nose. The only way I would vote for someone would be if they had any of these policies:

Review all prison sentences and make them longer
Bring back Capital Punishment, i.e. The Death Penalty
Reduce immigration (in many years time, this country will be too overpopulated)
Ban all this stupid and irrelevant health and safety rules (In Bournemouth, bunting is not allowed to be hung from street lights as it may make them bend and break).

[Paul]

Vjaska, you have my vote!

[londonbusboy]

Yes i agree with you too Luke not really about the death penalty.

Health and Safety now say in order to use a ladder you have to pass a course/test which is very stupid.


I would ban all immigrants from coming in the country especially in this recession as they are getting all our jobs, getting money from the state and as you say making our small country over populated.

[john]

I personally don't think that Peter Mandleson could run the country. He just doesn't seem to have the drive, personality or ideas to do it. Then again, i don't think Gordon Brown OR David Cameron have that either!!

Now myself, i would make a number of changes;

1) Get rid of these stupid ASBO's!! If you break the law, you get punished sufficiently by serving time, or by putting something back into the community you have disgraced.

2) ALL knife or gun crime convictions will result in a minimum 2 year service with the armed forces. This idea has caused a few arguements between me and my mates, but if someone thinks it's fun to kill, then we should train them to do it properly and actually understand the consequences of their actions

3) Immigration is a major problem with this country, however i don't think closing the borders is the right way to deal with it. Firstly Islamic law would NOT become intergrated into English law. If muslims, and many i speak to agree with this, want to live in this country then they abide by the laws of this land. Religious beliefs are something different and give no immunity to the law.

All imigrants would be tested on their language skills on arrival at ports/airports etc. If their English is not suitable enough, then they will be sent home immediately. When in Rome, do as the Romans. Obviously there will be other criteria such as reasons for coming into the country, attributes being brought in etc. So the language would be combined with all of these to decide on whether to let them in or not

5) NO I.D CARDS EVER. It's a complete disregard of privacy if you ask me

I do have other ideas, but none as firm as the above Also, the main problem with immigrants who are working, is the fact that the majority don't pay tax (cash in hand) and then send their money back home, which is taking money out of the country and therefore reducing spend in the retail sector. Now, if they were paying tax on the money earned, and their families were living here also, then there would be no problem. If the economy carries on the way it is, then i doubt the £ will be strong enough to make the country look that attractive to the Eastern block for much longer anyway. Dont forget, alot of these people coming in are fully fledged E.U members. They can merely up sticks and leave, which is also the case for us!! Not sure on all the legalities of it, but that's how it works in laymans terms

[Deleted]

Aug 17, 2009 13:13:05 GMT londonbusboy said:

I would ban all immigrants from coming in the country especially in this recession as they are getting all our jobs, getting money from the state and as you say making our small country over populated.

Oh do be very careful, be very careful indeed.

Aug 17, 2009 13:39:48 GMT john said:

All imigrants would be tested on their language skills on arrival at ports/airports etc. If their English is not suitable enough, then they will be sent home immediately. When in Rome, do as the Romans. Obviously there will be other criteria such as reasons for coming into the country, attributes being brought in etc. So the language would be combined with all of these to decide on whether to let them in or not

So I should have been turned away at the border?

[londonbusboy]

Aug 17, 2009 13:39:48 GMT john said:

I personally don't think that Peter Mandleson could run the country. He just doesn't seem to have the drive, personality or ideas to do it. Then again, i don't think Gordon Brown OR David Cameron have that either!!

Now myself, i would make a number of changes;

1) Get rid of these stupid ASBO's!! If you break the law, you get punished sufficiently by serving time, or by putting something back into the community you have disgraced.

2) ALL knife or gun crime convictions will result in a minimum 2 year service with the armed forces. This idea has caused a few arguements between me and my mates, but if someone thinks it's fun to kill, then we should train them to do it properly and actually understand the consequences of their actions

3) Immigration is a major problem with this country, however i don't think closing the borders is the right way to deal with it. Firstly Islamic law would NOT become intergrated into English law. If muslims, and many i speak to agree with this, want to live in this country then they abide by the laws of this land. Religious beliefs are something different and give no immunity to the law.

All imigrants would be tested on their language skills on arrival at ports/airports etc. If their English is not suitable enough, then they will be sent home immediately. When in Rome, do as the Romans. Obviously there will be other criteria such as reasons for coming into the country, attributes being brought in etc. So the language would be combined with all of these to decide on whether to let them in or not

5) NO I.D CARDS EVER. It's a complete disregard of privacy if you ask me

I do have other ideas, but none as firm as the above Also, the main problem with immigrants who are working, is the fact that the majority don't pay tax (cash in hand) and then send their money back home, which is taking money out of the country and therefore reducing spend in the retail sector. Now, if they were paying tax on the money earned, and their families were living here also, then there would be no problem. If the economy carries on the way it is, then i doubt the £ will be strong enough to make the country look that attractive to the Eastern block for much longer anyway. Dont forget, alot of these people coming in are fully fledged E.U members. They can merely up sticks and leave, which is also the case for us!! Not sure on all the legalities of it, but that's how it works in laymans terms

Id certainly vote for you! ;D

[londonbusboy]

Aug 17, 2009 15:03:00 GMT @nct said:

Aug 17, 2009 13:13:05 GMT londonbusboy said:

I would ban all immigrants from coming in the country especially in this recession as they are getting all our jobs, getting money from the state and as you say making our small country over populated.

Oh do be very careful, be very careful indeed.

Aug 17, 2009 13:39:48 GMT john said:

All imigrants would be tested on their language skills on arrival at ports/airports etc. If their English is not suitable enough, then they will be sent home immediately. When in Rome, do as the Romans. Obviously there will be other criteria such as reasons for coming into the country, attributes being brought in etc. So the language would be combined with all of these to decide on whether to let them in or not

So I should have been turned away at the border?

To me personally i think its true and everyone has the right to there opinion

[Deleted]

Aug 17, 2009 13:39:48 GMT john said:

I do have other ideas, but none as firm as the above Also, the main problem with immigrants who are working, is the fact that the majority don't pay tax (cash in hand) and then send their money back home, which is taking money out of the country and therefore reducing spend in the retail sector.

That's not quite true. What you describe is the informal sector, in which most of the immigrants who work are illegal immigrants in the first place.

All this talk about immigration seems to me rather just a crude vote-grabbing device. The term immigrant is badly defined in the media setting, for not all foreign nationals are actually classed as immigrants. In truth most foreign nationals living in this country fall into the second category you mentioned:

Now, if they were paying tax on the money earned, and their families were living here also, then there would be no problem.

[Deleted]

The answer to you question- NO
Peter Mandelson is not ideal as he a snob, and doesnt even know who Michael Jackson is!! ;D
Labour is certainly not a party to run government. We need a Barack Obama, and by that I mean someone with drive, someone who is actually a person, and someone who is 'cool'. ;D

Heres what I would change if I was prime minister:
EVERYTHING
I would also make it much harder for immigrants to enter our country (not being racist, but our country is overpopulated and we let EVERYONE in). I would of course welcome immigrants if they did get in and try to make them integrate into the community.

I would also make punishments MUCH MUCH harder. 'Life' inprisonment is NOT life inprisonment anymore!!
Also, I would consider the death penatly for very extreme cases (E.g. Rapists, peadophiles, terrorists) and ONLY if it is certain they commited the crime.

And, please do not get the wrong idea here, i would consider legalising prostitution. I dont mean make it legal for kurb-crawlers to just pick someone up, I mean have it like a business like in some American states and some other countries. It would reduce STDs considerably. I dont particuarly agree with prostitution, but I think this is a better option.

Get rid of ASBOs as already suggested, and dont let kids get away with everything. They seem to have more rights than anyone, and they are beginning to realise they have more rights than anyone. I would make schools give kids harder punishments for bullying.
Also, get rid of these completly ridiculous 'Elf N Safety' laws. Health and Safety executives and officers etc have got to be incredibly lonely miserable people.

If I have offended anyone, I really havent meant to, they are my opinions which everyone is entitled to have

[john]

Aug 17, 2009 16:21:53 GMT @nct said:

Aug 17, 2009 13:39:48 GMT john said:

I do have other ideas, but none as firm as the above Also, the main problem with immigrants who are working, is the fact that the majority don't pay tax (cash in hand) and then send their money back home, which is taking money out of the country and therefore reducing spend in the retail sector.

That's not quite true. What you describe is the informal sector, in which most of the immigrants who work are illegal immigrants in the first place.

All this talk about immigration seems to me rather just a crude vote-grabbing device. The term immigrant is badly defined in the media setting, for not all foreign nationals are actually classed as immigrants. In truth most foreign nationals living in this country fall into the second category you mentioned:

Now, if they were paying tax on the money earned, and their families were living here also, then there would be no problem.

Firstly i'd like to sincerely apologise if any of my comments offended you NCT. Certainly wasn't my intention!! All i can say is that i have a medical condition called "putting your foot in ititis"

On the subject of the language barrier though, all i initially meant was that if you go to Japan to live, you can't get away with not knowing the language at all. You need to have at least a basic grasp of the Japanese language to really get anywhere over there, and that is what i think should be the case in England. Just to be able to communicate the simple things should be a minimum entry requirement, otherwise a short-term visa should be granted etc. I mean, even when i'm away in France or Spain, i generally try to use the skills that i learnt in school and college, although they're now very very basic indeed, to communicate to people in that country.

As for the whole "too many foreigners in England!" arguement, anyone have any comments on the numbers of English emmigrants to Spain and Cyprus?? On that bombshell i bid you goodnight ;D

[vjaska]

Although I was born in this country, I do have foreign blood in me (the surname Vjaksa gives it way). But there is a problem with people who come into this country expecting not to learn about English society, the language and our culture. I would expect myself to do the same if I visited their country. It makes my job harder if the person can not string simple sentences together when asking for where something is or how much this product is. Then, these people make out it's my fault that I can't understand them. How did they work that out? As I see it, the English Language In the U.K. is being slowly suffocated by all the people who are speaking their own language.

And on the people emmigrating out of Britain, they are only doing so as they are seeing their fears becoming reality. There are divides in some towns, with Birmingham and Luton two good examples where communities are segregating themselves by race and religion which immigration had a small part to play as these people have not decided to conform with the general society. The causes are sometimes English people fearing the unknown which leads to racism but other times, it could be from the 'minority' group where they've decided to further themselves away from society or may be undertaking in illegal and immoral activities. The reasons for both parties are endless.

Immigration shouldn't be stopped completely but it does need reducing particularly as the U.K's population is set to rise quite dramatically and I know, I wouldn't like to live in an overpopulated country.

No offence was intended in the above so apologies if you are

[jrussa]

There is some very strong points. All of them have a postive and all of them have a negative. Immigration at times does benefit this country, but in these current times not much. The UK is 22 on the most populated country. This is out of 223.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population


It is a shame that Labour believed that if Tony resigned, it would increase ratings. People would say that it would make Labour even worse, due to the Iraq war and ect... but he would be the only person, except Alan Johnson...who could have a high chance of beating Cameron. We have seen Tony Blair beating David Cameron alot on PMQ's (well for those who watch it lol).

I am a Labour supporter.....but I have to admit that Gordon Brown is not really making me feel like everything is under control. He doesn't have that optimistic sense, like Tony Blair. Or that confidence. He always look warned out. I actually enjoy it when Cameron gives him a couple of jabs and punch lines.

Ofcourse I would want Labour to win a 4th term. I have always said... if Labour loss... I would prefer a Lib Dem government. That was back in 2007 when Campbell was Leader. But Nick Clegg. He is doing some kind of fake rubbish version of Tony Blair. So is David Cameron.

When it comes to the general election, everyone has to think about the success of a 12/13yrs government.
Such as;

1) Northern Ireland Peace agreement

2) Higher standards of healthcare

3) More hospitals

4) More schools

5) Less waiting times at the hospital

6) Better trans;port

7) Better school results

8) Creating a post called "Mayor of London"

9) Legalizing the same sex to be married

10) Introduction of a National Minimum Wage

11) Higher education

12) Better school results

13) Giving Independence to the Bank of England

14) Introduced in 1998; a Scottish Parliament and a Welsh Assembly were set up

15) Introduced the Foundation Hospitals scheme to allow NHS hospitals financial autonomy

16) Help winning the 2012 olympics with help from London Mayor, Ken Livingstone, and many more successful things.

17) Labour managed to allow the UK have the longest period of sustained, economic growth in British history!!




Whatever happens at the next election. I hope that people vote, based on policies, personality and leadership. Rather than just voting against a party because they are not happy. No PM/Head of State/ President can please everyone. Look at Pres. Barack Obama. His approval ratings are under 50% since this Healthcare issue. He was once seen as the person who could save America.

Last week on CNN, to mark the 200th day of an Obama Adminstration, they created this thing on their website, where America can grade the President, Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, Barack Obama's handling on the economy, his handling on healthcare, The Senate, congress ect and ect. Most grades were C, D.

The rating for Obama was a C. It has only been just over 6 months. Election campaigns starts like in 2yrs for the 2012 elections.

[Deleted]

Aug 18, 2009 5:59:40 GMT jrussa said:

There is some very strong points. All of them have a postive and all of them have a negative. Immigration at times does benefit this country, but in these current times not much. The UK is 22 on the most populated country. This is out of 223.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population


It is a shame that Labour believed that if Tony resigned, it would increase ratings. People would say that it would make Labour even worse, due to the Iraq war and ect... but he would be the only person, except Alan Johnson...who could have a high chance of beating Cameron. We have seen Tony Blair beating David Cameron alot on PMQ's (well for those who watch it lol).

I am a Labour supporter.....but I have to admit that Gordon Brown is not really making me feel like everything is under control. He doesn't have that optimistic sense, like Tony Blair. Or that confidence. He always look warned out. I actually enjoy it when Cameron gives him a couple of jabs and punch lines.

Ofcourse I would want Labour to win a 4th term. I have always said... if Labour loss... I would prefer a Lib Dem government. That was back in 2007 when Campbell was Leader. But Nick Clegg. He is doing some kind of fake rubbish version of Tony Blair. So is David Cameron.

When it comes to the general election, everyone has to think about the success of a 12/13yrs government.
Such as;

1) Northern Ireland Peace agreement

2) Higher standards of healthcare

3) More hospitals

4) More schools

5) Less waiting times at the hospital

6) Better trans;port

7) Better school results

8) Creating a post called "Mayor of London"

9) Legalizing the same sex to be married

10) Introduction of a National Minimum Wage

11) Higher education

12) Better school results

13) Giving Independence to the Bank of England

14) Introduced in 1998; a Scottish Parliament and a Welsh Assembly were set up

15) Introduced the Foundation Hospitals scheme to allow NHS hospitals financial autonomy

16) Help winning the 2012 olympics with help from London Mayor, Ken Livingstone, and many more successful things.

17) Labour managed to allow the UK have the longest period of sustained, economic growth in British history!!




Whatever happens at the next election. I hope that people vote, based on policies, personality and leadership. Rather than just voting against a party because they are not happy. No PM/Head of State/ President can please everyone. Look at Pres. Barack Obama. His approval ratings are under 50% since this Healthcare issue. He was once seen as the person who could save America.

Last week on CNN, to mark the 200th day of an Obama Adminstration, they created this thing on their website, where America can grade the President, Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, Barack Obama's handling on the economy, his handling on healthcare, The Senate, congress ect and ect. Most grades were C, D.

The rating for Obama was a C. It has only been just over 6 months. Election campaigns starts like in 2yrs for the 2012 elections.

When this thread was first started I was concerned that it might degenerate into personal political rantings of one persuasion or another, and so it now seems.

Your interest in politics is well known, but we are NOT 'on the road to Damascus' so as to speak, so the chance of getting anyone to agree with your point of view is somewhat limited.

I do not intend to devote much time on the subject, BUSES are of more interst to me than pushing some clapped out political agenda, but at least a few observations:-

Firstly, your understanding of the politcal 'balance' would seem to be somewhat shallow, especially if you cite the Punch and Judy show that is PMQs as an example.

Unlike the American system, which you seem to hold so dear, we do NOT have a President, nor does our Prime Minister NEED to be Presidential in his behaviour, much as the media would like it to be so!

I DO agree with you about voting. ANYONE who fails to vote has NO right to criticise or complain afterwards!

If you must give long numbered lists, make it clear what they are supposed to convey, AND do not put the same thing down TWICE, as your numbers seven and twelve!

Just because YOU have enumerated a feature of your beloved Labour administration does NOT mean that others think it has been a success, or that it will be in the future. ;D

Obviously politics affects our hobby considerably, but I think it would be better to confine our expressions of pleasure or otherwise of our politcal leader's actions to the subject matter to hand.

If we do not, we WILL end of in a quagmire of political statements, many half-baked and ill conceived, and MOST by people who, at present, are NOT yet old enough to vote themselves.

Your turn WILL come, but do NOT be turned by the sloganising of others, of any hue. If you don't care, your choice, if you DO care, find out what it's all about FIRST rather than standing on a soapbox pontificating views which you yourself hardly iunderstand, and in a serious debate, probably couldn't justify anyway. This, whatever your politcal persuasions, prejudices or leanings!

[Deleted]

Aug 17, 2009 23:30:36 GMT john said:

Aug 17, 2009 16:21:53 GMT @nct said:

That's not quite true. What you describe is the informal sector, in which most of the immigrants who work are illegal immigrants in the first place.

All this talk about immigration seems to me rather just a crude vote-grabbing device. The term immigrant is badly defined in the media setting, for not all foreign nationals are actually classed as immigrants. In truth most foreign nationals living in this country fall into the second category you mentioned:

Firstly i'd like to sincerely apologise if any of my comments offended you NCT. Certainly wasn't my intention!! All i can say is that i have a medical condition called "putting your foot in ititis"

On the subject of the language barrier though, all i initially meant was that if you go to Japan to live, you can't get away with not knowing the language at all. You need to have at least a basic grasp of the Japanese language to really get anywhere over there, and that is what i think should be the case in England. Just to be able to communicate the simple things should be a minimum entry requirement, otherwise a short-term visa should be granted etc. I mean, even when i'm away in France or Spain, i generally try to use the skills that i learnt in school and college, although they're now very very basic indeed, to communicate to people in that country.

As for the whole "too many foreigners in England!" arguement, anyone have any comments on the numbers of English emmigrants to Spain and Cyprus?? On that bombshell i bid you goodnight ;D

Can't agree more.

The truth is when my family moved over to England we made every effort to learn English and about the English culture. When our English wasn't up to scratch we did our best to communicate in English, and always appreciated the efforts of others in trying to understand us. If you do things the right way you can end up having a great laugh with some of the words that get used. ;D Unfortunately some people nowadays have neither the attitude to learn and try nor a sense of humour.