Major Bus Groups face Potential Breakup

[Deleted]

The OFT has launched a UK wide investigation following its finding of limited competition & widespread anti competative & predatory behaviour. It also found evidence of wodespread collusion on fares.
It will be loking at how competition can be increased. One way it has suggested is by breaking up the major bus groups. It is also looking at whether reducing the dominance of a single company in an area would improve competition. They have suggested that if this aproach is fllowed no single company including it's subsideries showed have more then 50% of the routes within a give area.

[moz]

The OFT have certainly got the wrong end of the stick here. There are definite cases where, were it not for a single local monopoly then the level of service being provided would not exist. Admittedly such service levels are usually acheived not through usage and profit but to scare off potential competitors from the area. However, it is usually very beneficial to locals and this is something that the OFT should take into account before launching some sort of cack-handed change to regulations that could drag local bus transport outside London back into the dark ages.

The only potential solution whereby a current thick local network operated by a single monopoly could be competed against would be for the reintroduction of PTE type county council bodies who could offer "Travelcard" type tickets valid within the county regardless of operator. Tickets could only be bought on-bus and operators would be renumerated for both sales and usage. It's a bit like the current OAP free travel scheme but with a bit more money flowing through the operators coffers.

Moz

[Deleted]

There is cleary a lack of competition in the UK bus market with 90% of services in the hands of about 3 companies all of who tend to have a virtual monopoly in their areas.

I think the OFT is correct in saying there is little competition and there is certainly clear evidence of anti competive behaviour and collusion on fares. I have come across many cases of this. One company puts its fares up and then a few weeks later another one puts its fares up the exact same amount. It would be truely remarkable if they both had exacly the same costs.

It is clear that there is about zero real competition in most parts of the UK.

I think the difficult part is how you introduce competition whilst at the same time not causing problems for passengers. There are certainly major probblems with ticketing with lack of interchangerbility and bus companies not even knowing what tickets are valid.

[Deleted]

Bob if you are thinking Arriva, Stagecoach and First, yes combined they have a large slice of the market, but it is not anywhere near approaching 90%

Aug 24, 2009 17:05:03 GMT bob said:

There is cleary a lack of competition in the UK bus market with 90% of services in the hands of about 3 companies all of who tend to have a virtual monopoly in their areas.

I think the OFT is correct in saying there is little competition and there is certainly clear evidence of anti competive behaviour and collusion on fares. I have come across many cases of this. One company puts its fares up and then a few weeks later another one puts its fares up the exact same amount. It would be truely remarkable if they both had exacly the same costs.

It is clear that there is about zero real competition in most parts of the UK.

I think the difficult part is how you introduce competition whilst at the same time not causing problems for passengers. There are certainly major probblems with ticketing with lack of interchangerbility and bus companies not even knowing what tickets are valid.

[john]

Aug 24, 2009 19:02:19 GMT @steve517757 said:

Bob if you are thinking Arriva, Stagecoach and First, yes combined they have a large slice of the market, but it is not anywhere near approaching 90%

Aug 24, 2009 17:05:03 GMT bob said:

There is cleary a lack of competition in the UK bus market with 90% of services in the hands of about 3 companies all of who tend to have a virtual monopoly in their areas.

I think the OFT is correct in saying there is little competition and there is certainly clear evidence of anti competive behaviour and collusion on fares. I have come across many cases of this. One company puts its fares up and then a few weeks later another one puts its fares up the exact same amount. It would be truely remarkable if they both had exacly the same costs.

It is clear that there is about zero real competition in most parts of the UK.

I think the difficult part is how you introduce competition whilst at the same time not causing problems for passengers. There are certainly major probblems with ticketing with lack of interchangerbility and bus companies not even knowing what tickets are valid.

He is right on certain areas being monopolised though. Just look at Birmingham and Coventry as evidence of that with National Express. My general experience of their services wasn't very greay either, i must admit

[ServerKing]

travelling in Brum is a nightmare from what I remember! quite pricey, and the buses aren't as regular as what we have

[john]

Aug 25, 2009 18:37:57 GMT ServerKing said:

travelling in Brum is a nightmare from what I remember! quite pricey, and the buses aren't as regular as what we have

Coventry was just as bad. No change given on ANY service within the area, plus you didn't know whether you had to pay £1.20 or £1.50. Either way you had to make sure you had the right change!!

As for service levels, well, London is much better in most circumstances. Evening services were pretty similar, although NatEx Coventry seemed to be running almost ALL their DD services at every 30

Also, when you go outside of London, you realise just how good iBus is ;D

[HA2215]

just out of interest who owns lothian transport up in scotland as they seemt o be a major company in the lothian area and first and stagecoach nto so big.

[Deleted]

Lothian buses is council owned IIRC.

[Deleted]

Aug 24, 2009 19:02:19 GMT @steve517757 said:

Bob if you are thinking Arriva, Stagecoach and First, yes combined they have a large slice of the market, but it is not anywhere near approaching 90%

Aug 24, 2009 17:05:03 GMT bob said:

There is cleary a lack of competition in the UK bus market with 90% of services in the hands of about 3 companies all of who tend to have a virtual monopoly in their areas.

I think the OFT is correct in saying there is little competition and there is certainly clear evidence of anti competive behaviour and collusion on fares. I have come across many cases of this. One company puts its fares up and then a few weeks later another one puts its fares up the exact same amount. It would be truely remarkable if they both had exacly the same costs.

It is clear that there is about zero real competition in most parts of the UK.

I think the difficult part is how you introduce competition whilst at the same time not causing problems for passengers. There are certainly major probblems with ticketing with lack of interchangerbility and bus companies not even knowing what tickets are valid.

I was not suggesting that. The bus companies tend to operate in defined areas and within their areas of operation they tend to have in most cases close to a 90% monopoly. Even within London you will have areas where one of the big companies has pretty much a monopoly. Much of North London for instance is in the hands of Arriva.

[Deleted]

Aug 28, 2009 20:16:54 GMT bob said:

Aug 24, 2009 19:02:19 GMT @steve517757 said:

Bob if you are thinking Arriva, Stagecoach and First, yes combined they have a large slice of the market, but it is not anywhere near approaching 90%

I was not suggesting that. The bus companies tend to operate in defined areas and within their areas of operation they tend to have in most cases close to a 90% monopoly. Even within London you will have areas where one of the big companies has pretty much a monopoly. Much of North London for instance is in the hands of Arriva.

Well, going back to the initial privitisation where bids had to be made for the 12 or 13 Operating Divisions, that is hardly surprising, is it?

Many of the 'big' companies were formed for the express purpose of buying into these divisions.

Several HAVE changed hands, either by direct sale (e.g. Stagecoach) or by management buyout/buyin.

That is the nature of the beast. Economy of scale is not a new concept.

So what is your point may I ask?