|
Post by capitalomnibus on Aug 1, 2017 0:38:06 GMT
@eddiebus as much as you "hate" Stagecoach and certain allocations out of Leyton or other garages, I hate the busted exhaust on VLA104 and the noisy fans on the majority of the VLAs. Arriva is one of my favourite companies, but it is my opinion that these buses would be lucky to see the end of their contract seeing how the fans / silencers etc are on them at the minute, plus performance. Seeing as there is due to be a glut of HV's for the 341 / 243, more than likely DWs will move across (even some here "hate" the DWs, but although they lack the character of their DB250 forebears, I think they're OK ) I doubt CT Plus would have the space for the 123, and if anything I'd like Stagecach to get it next, just for a little variety but I have little clout on what happens next but I will voice my opinion For me its about what company would order the best bus for the fast section on the A406. I have said before the Gemini 3 on the 34's suit that route very well. I would take similar buses on the 123. It has to be new hybrids whoever wins it at least. I dont want to get into the who is the better company as scenario and situations are different and most of the time there is little difference between them. However, the 275 under Stagecoach and Arriva are incomparable. That left me with a bad impression of Arriva. They do other things well like run very high frequency routes, but routes that are underbused they dont seem to know how to cope with them or ask TfL for help, more reactive than proactive with struggling routes IMOAE. That was a long time now at the 275, it was a kick in the teeth at that loss. It wasn't just the route performance, it was also down to staff and engineering. Many of the low frequency routes were won on very tight pvr's so then not much room for traffic or even recovery times. That is a recipe for disaster as with low frequency after 5 minutes late fines start rolling in.
|
|
|
Post by Volvo on Aug 1, 2017 1:27:22 GMT
The Cummins engine Leyland Olympian with ZF gearbox and the Dennis Arrow gave some very nice rides on the 123 'fast rides'. I never forget I got my ass kicked with a S reg euro 2 Trident against a J reg Leyland Olympian that was near fully loaded and I had an empty bus!!! Loool, this is why I don't believe in the newer the better.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Aug 1, 2017 2:46:31 GMT
This I thought the 123 was decent under arriva ? The next time I go in I'll have a look at the performance board if I remember but the 123 needs at least HVs or fix the DWs so they can get upto speed as I have heard form many drivers stories of the buses can't go faster than 25/30 or take ages to get to 40 and on the A406 50mph sections that can't be fun. They are bad enough of the 341. It hasn't been bad over past few years. Yes it does get hit with delays from A406 road closures etc but many of these things are out of control. Just a certain Dr Snoggle seems to have pitchforks at anything on 123 performance. As much as I love fast vehicles, no need for every bus in the fleet to be a pocket rocket. Most of the route isn't even the A406 anyway its just a short section, so fast buses are not even required imo. If you wanted slow you would have cried if you rode on some Dennis Dominators on the 123 making odd workings, they struggled badly to get a decent speed. The Cummins engine Leyland Olympian with ZF gearbox and the Dennis Arrow gave some very nice rides on the 123 'fast rides'. I never forget I got my ass kicked with a S reg euro 2 Trident against a J reg Leyland Olympian that was near fully loaded and I had an empty bus!!!
Lucky you regarding Cummins Olympians - when the 41 L's at N went for refurbishement, I had to endure the ex Kentish Bus G VBB batch which were slow to the point where even the ageing L class Gardner Olympians were outperforming them. They also had a terrible interior of grey panelling, orange handrails and grey blue seat moquette which made dull, dark mornings 10 times worse compared to the bright LT 1980's interior of the L class Gardener Olympians. I was so glad when they shoved off when the refurbished Olympians returned even if the returnees had the character ripped out of them with a ill fitting semi Arriva interior & a Voith box which was absolutely terrible and that's coming from a massive Voith fan
|
|
|
Post by Volvo on Aug 1, 2017 8:11:35 GMT
It hasn't been bad over past few years. Yes it does get hit with delays from A406 road closures etc but many of these things are out of control. Just a certain Dr Snoggle seems to have pitchforks at anything on 123 performance. As much as I love fast vehicles, no need for every bus in the fleet to be a pocket rocket. Most of the route isn't even the A406 anyway its just a short section, so fast buses are not even required imo. If you wanted slow you would have cried if you rode on some Dennis Dominators on the 123 making odd workings, they struggled badly to get a decent speed. The Cummins engine Leyland Olympian with ZF gearbox and the Dennis Arrow gave some very nice rides on the 123 'fast rides'. I never forget I got my ass kicked with a S reg euro 2 Trident against a J reg Leyland Olympian that was near fully loaded and I had an empty bus!!!
Lucky you regarding Cummins Olympians - when the 41 L's at N went for refurbishement, I had to endure the ex Kentish Bus G VBB batch which were slow to the point where even the ageing L class Gardner Olympians were outperforming them. They also had a terrible interior of grey panelling, orange handrails and grey blue seat moquette which made dull, dark mornings 10 times worse compared to the bright LT 1980's interior of the L class Gardener Olympians. I was so glad when they shoved off when the refurbished Olympians returned even if the returnees had the character ripped out of them with a ill fitting semi Arriva interior & a Voith box which was absolutely terrible and that's coming from a massive Voith fan I remember the GxxxVBB Olympians on the 253 tbh I didn't think they were that bad and when one turned up instead of the Ls I didn't mind tbh, only thing that was annoying iirc was they only had one bell upstairs at the front.
|
|
|
Post by brutxi on Aug 1, 2017 10:02:56 GMT
Lucky you regarding Cummins Olympians - when the 41 L's at N went for refurbishement, I had to endure the ex Kentish Bus G VBB batch which were slow to the point where even the ageing L class Gardner Olympians were outperforming them. They also had a terrible interior of grey panelling, orange handrails and grey blue seat moquette which made dull, dark mornings 10 times worse compared to the bright LT 1980's interior of the L class Gardener Olympians. I was so glad when they shoved off when the refurbished Olympians returned even if the returnees had the character ripped out of them with a ill fitting semi Arriva interior & a Voith box which was absolutely terrible and that's coming from a massive Voith fan I remember the GxxxVBB Olympians on the 253 tbh I didn't think they were that bad and when one turned up instead of the Ls I didn't mind tbh, only thing that was annoying iirc was they only had one bell upstairs at the front. Do remember them fondly. Especially when driving eastbound on Amhurst Paark towards Stamford Hill station. Always a section where the road was uneven and the suspension was duly tested when in the hands of an eager driver.
|
|
|
Post by capitalomnibus on Aug 1, 2017 10:12:26 GMT
The Cummins engine Leyland Olympian with ZF gearbox and the Dennis Arrow gave some very nice rides on the 123 'fast rides'. I never forget I got my ass kicked with a S reg euro 2 Trident against a J reg Leyland Olympian that was near fully loaded and I had an empty bus!!! Loool, this is why I don't believe in the newer the better. I did get my revenge back with the euro 3 ISCe Cummins Trident with 4 speed Voith and won marginally.
|
|
|
Post by capitalomnibus on Aug 1, 2017 10:14:34 GMT
It hasn't been bad over past few years. Yes it does get hit with delays from A406 road closures etc but many of these things are out of control. Just a certain Dr Snoggle seems to have pitchforks at anything on 123 performance. As much as I love fast vehicles, no need for every bus in the fleet to be a pocket rocket. Most of the route isn't even the A406 anyway its just a short section, so fast buses are not even required imo. If you wanted slow you would have cried if you rode on some Dennis Dominators on the 123 making odd workings, they struggled badly to get a decent speed. The Cummins engine Leyland Olympian with ZF gearbox and the Dennis Arrow gave some very nice rides on the 123 'fast rides'. I never forget I got my ass kicked with a S reg euro 2 Trident against a J reg Leyland Olympian that was near fully loaded and I had an empty bus!!!
Lucky you regarding Cummins Olympians - when the 41 L's at N went for refurbishement, I had to endure the ex Kentish Bus G VBB batch which were slow to the point where even the ageing L class Gardner Olympians were outperforming them. They also had a terrible interior of grey panelling, orange handrails and grey blue seat moquette which made dull, dark mornings 10 times worse compared to the bright LT 1980's interior of the L class Gardener Olympians. I was so glad when they shoved off when the refurbished Olympians returned even if the returnees had the character ripped out of them with a ill fitting semi Arriva interior & a Voith box which was absolutely terrible and that's coming from a massive Voith fan I actually loved the interior of those Kentish Bus Olympians back then. You have to remember back in 1990 they did look modern when new. I remember one of them went like a rocket, think it was G525 VBB.
|
|
|
Post by busoccultation on Aug 1, 2017 12:41:38 GMT
Perhaps this was posted by someone else and I got my wires crossed. sorry We all can switch from liking to hating things, no harm meant. 123 back in the day was great for DLA thrash, DW's too before all the Econospeed stuff slowed them down. The original 54 reg VLA's had fan mod's then mysteriously disappeared up to Arriva NorthEast which made no sense, to be replaced by older, noiser versions. In that sense, I "hate" the 123. Factor in roadworks, and the stupid 20 zones lots of boroughs are introducing have personally made the route suck IMHO. I've always found Stagecoach buses well presented (love the chome on the rear wheels ) and miss the fact they no longer have the 230 and 67. I think a lot of operators are cagey about bidding for these routes as they don't know what eco rabbit TfL will pull out of the hat next, and they don't want to be stuck with nearly new 'non compliant' stock if TfL suddenly decided everything had to be electric or something else etc. More than likely Arriva will retain, but perhaps TT might have a go, we'll just have to wait and see. I think CT Plus are OK, but they've got plenty to be getting on with in Walthamstow as it is Alright mate you win! I am trying to understand your opinions as I dont like the buses on the 123. When ever I use the route I would browse LVF to see if a DW is sneaking on it. HAHA Same I do that sometimes and lookout for any DW is out on the 123 and also let all the VLA's go and wait for a DW.
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Aug 1, 2017 13:06:32 GMT
Same I do that sometimes and lookout for any DW is out on the 123 and also let all the VLA's go and wait for a DW. Whereas on Saturday I let VLA104 go because it was getting later and later as it was moving along. Even though the controllers then paused VLA13 which was behind making me wait for another 4 mins we were still only a couple of mins behind VLA104 when we got to Ilford. Much more room and a faster driver on VLA13 too. Not seen that driver before but we got a splendid ride back until the controllers struck again and made him wait 2 stops from where I get off! This is where headway management is stupid. It's VLA104 which was late, not VLA13. The biggest gap was in front of VLA104 because it can't pull the skin off a ride pudding and was obviously catching more people due it running slow. You'd think Arriva might actually fix 104 so it can run at an appropriate pace and not end up wrecking the service?!
|
|
|
Post by mondraker275 on Aug 1, 2017 16:02:16 GMT
Same I do that sometimes and lookout for any DW is out on the 123 and also let all the VLA's go and wait for a DW. Whereas on Saturday I let VLA104 go because it was getting later and later as it was moving along. Even though the controllers then paused VLA13 which was behind making me wait for another 4 mins we were still only a couple of mins behind VLA104 when we got to Ilford. Much more room and a faster driver on VLA13 too. Not seen that driver before but we got a splendid ride back until the controllers struck again and made him wait 2 stops from where I get off! This is where headway management is stupid. It's VLA104 which was late, not VLA13. The biggest gap was in front of VLA104 because it can't pull the skin off a ride pudding and was obviously catching more people due it running slow. You'd think Arriva might actually fix 104 so it can run at an appropriate pace and not end up wrecking the service?! Summed up my frustrations with headway management. I just dont get the logic. You would think in your example that you let VLA13 go and help out VLA104, so that they both end up in Ilford quicker, even if it means that VLA13 ends up overtaking VLA104. There must be something we dont know. One thing that Arriva do is make the performance stats of route look good even though at ground level it may not seem that way. Taking it back to CT Plus, I rarely, if ever, get held on their routes. I have had my 158 held a couple of times in recent weeks which has never happened including the rare 'waiting here for 5 minutes' . "Hey ref, where did 5 minutes come from!!!"
|
|
|
HCT Group
Aug 1, 2017 16:07:18 GMT
via mobile
Post by Hassaan on Aug 1, 2017 16:07:18 GMT
Whereas on Saturday I let VLA104 go because it was getting later and later as it was moving along. Even though the controllers then paused VLA13 which was behind making me wait for another 4 mins we were still only a couple of mins behind VLA104 when we got to Ilford. Much more room and a faster driver on VLA13 too. Not seen that driver before but we got a splendid ride back until the controllers struck again and made him wait 2 stops from where I get off! This is where headway management is stupid. It's VLA104 which was late, not VLA13. The biggest gap was in front of VLA104 because it can't pull the skin off a ride pudding and was obviously catching more people due it running slow. You'd think Arriva might actually fix 104 so it can run at an appropriate pace and not end up wrecking the service?! Summed up my frustrations with headway management. I just dont get the logic. You would think in your example that you let VLA13 go and help out VLA104, so that they both end up in Ilford quicker, even if it means that VLA13 ends up overtaking VLA104. There must be something we dont know. One thing that Arriva do is make the performance stats of route look good even though at ground level it may not seem that way. Taking it back to CT Plus, I rarely, if ever, get held on their routes. I have had my 158 held a couple of times in recent weeks which has never happened including the rare 'waiting here for 5 minutes' . "Hey ref, where did 5 minutes come from!!!" Yesterday my on-time (I think) WVL115 on the 474 was driving at no more than 20mph and held at a few stops, but there was still 12-14 minutes between it and the buses either side only ended up on the route as I seemed to jinx the London Underground (first disruption on Jubilee Line, then on Subsurface lines, so decided to get SE from Charing Cross to Woolwich Arsenal then DLR to London City Airport)
|
|
|
Post by capitalomnibus on Aug 1, 2017 23:19:39 GMT
Same I do that sometimes and lookout for any DW is out on the 123 and also let all the VLA's go and wait for a DW. Whereas on Saturday I let VLA104 go because it was getting later and later as it was moving along. Even though the controllers then paused VLA13 which was behind making me wait for another 4 mins we were still only a couple of mins behind VLA104 when we got to Ilford. Much more room and a faster driver on VLA13 too. Not seen that driver before but we got a splendid ride back until the controllers struck again and made him wait 2 stops from where I get off! This is where headway management is stupid. It's VLA104 which was late, not VLA13. The biggest gap was in front of VLA104 because it can't pull the skin off a ride pudding and was obviously catching more people due it running slow. You'd think Arriva might actually fix 104 so it can run at an appropriate pace and not end up wrecking the service?! May seem stupid to you, but makes sense to the controller and those at TfL or people who may have missed the bus that you were on. Chances is that it is close to the one in front as you mentioned and then the bus behind it was running late. That is the whole reason to keep it away from its leader, especially going through QSI points. Also how do you know VLA104 is slow, it could be the driver is slow.
|
|
|
Post by capitalomnibus on Aug 1, 2017 23:21:16 GMT
Whereas on Saturday I let VLA104 go because it was getting later and later as it was moving along. Even though the controllers then paused VLA13 which was behind making me wait for another 4 mins we were still only a couple of mins behind VLA104 when we got to Ilford. Much more room and a faster driver on VLA13 too. Not seen that driver before but we got a splendid ride back until the controllers struck again and made him wait 2 stops from where I get off! This is where headway management is stupid. It's VLA104 which was late, not VLA13. The biggest gap was in front of VLA104 because it can't pull the skin off a ride pudding and was obviously catching more people due it running slow. You'd think Arriva might actually fix 104 so it can run at an appropriate pace and not end up wrecking the service?! Summed up my frustrations with headway management. I just dont get the logic. You would think in your example that you let VLA13 go and help out VLA104, so that they both end up in Ilford quicker, even if it means that VLA13 ends up overtaking VLA104. There must be something we dont know. One thing that Arriva do is make the performance stats of route look good even though at ground level it may not seem that way. Taking it back to CT Plus, I rarely, if ever, get held on their routes. I have had my 158 held a couple of times in recent weeks which has never happened including the rare 'waiting here for 5 minutes' . "Hey ref, where did 5 minutes come from!!!"It may not be as clearcut as you think. When you see the bigger picture with the whole route in front of you, then you see it differently.
|
|
|
Post by Volvo on Aug 1, 2017 23:24:20 GMT
Loool, this is why I don't believe in the newer the better. I did get my revenge back with the euro 3 ISCe Cummins Trident with 4 speed Voith and won marginally. Result!
|
|
|
Post by Volvo on Aug 1, 2017 23:35:06 GMT
Whereas on Saturday I let VLA104 go because it was getting later and later as it was moving along. Even though the controllers then paused VLA13 which was behind making me wait for another 4 mins we were still only a couple of mins behind VLA104 when we got to Ilford. Much more room and a faster driver on VLA13 too. Not seen that driver before but we got a splendid ride back until the controllers struck again and made him wait 2 stops from where I get off! This is where headway management is stupid. It's VLA104 which was late, not VLA13. The biggest gap was in front of VLA104 because it can't pull the skin off a ride pudding and was obviously catching more people due it running slow. You'd think Arriva might actually fix 104 so it can run at an appropriate pace and not end up wrecking the service?! May seem stupid to you, but makes sense to the controller and those at TfL or people who may have missed the bus that you were on. Chances is that it is close to the one in front as you mentioned and then the bus behind it was running late. That is the whole reason to keep it away from its leader, especially going through QSI points. Also how do you know VLA104 is slow, it could be the driver is slow.
This. Generally on the 341 I will hold myself even if I am running late to try and maintain a gap but tbh alot of the drivers imo seem to be messing about as often I find myself catching my leader when I really shouldn't be as I am averaging between 10-15mph and serving every bus stop along the way, getting caught at red lights alot and the roads are clear. It is frustrating when you are running on your time or even a few late and you have to keep waiting at stops as there is nothing to do.
|
|