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Post by portman227 on Aug 2, 2017 2:44:44 GMT
May seem stupid to you, but makes sense to the controller and those at TfL or people who may have missed the bus that you were on. Chances is that it is close to the one in front as you mentioned and then the bus behind it was running late. That is the whole reason to keep it away from its leader, especially going through QSI points. Also how do you know VLA104 is slow, it could be the driver is slow.
This. Generally on the 341 I will hold myself even if I am running late to try and maintain a gap but tbh alot of the drivers imo seem to be messing about as often I find myself catching my leader when I really shouldn't be as I am averaging between 10-15mph and serving every bus stop along the way, getting caught at red lights alot and the roads are clear. It is frustrating when you are running on your time or even a few late and you have to keep waiting at stops as there is nothing to do. This is the problem I had when I did the 53's from PD. I know this isn't arriva based but for a very busy route you know something isn't quite right when you enter high busy town centres during midday and you are not picking up anyone, you know instantly your leader is really not getting on with his duty, and it really buggers me. Imagine a 29 pulling into Camden Town and barely picking up 5 passengers. I'm not here to complain about headways but I would want drivers to get on with their driving, fair enough some drivers are new and not use to the operation of high frequency routes but being a passenger in some busy routes, you really do see why the service mess up so easily even if it's not down to road condition. Taking forever to close doors, waiting for passengers not only on the opposite side of road but miles away (yes that has happened), driving way below the speed limit, labouring the bus which in itself is lacking power. all in all I'm not condoning harsh fast driving or reckless behaviour but smooth progressive driving 😉
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Post by vjaska on Aug 2, 2017 2:53:38 GMT
Whereas on Saturday I let VLA104 go because it was getting later and later as it was moving along. Even though the controllers then paused VLA13 which was behind making me wait for another 4 mins we were still only a couple of mins behind VLA104 when we got to Ilford. Much more room and a faster driver on VLA13 too. Not seen that driver before but we got a splendid ride back until the controllers struck again and made him wait 2 stops from where I get off! This is where headway management is stupid. It's VLA104 which was late, not VLA13. The biggest gap was in front of VLA104 because it can't pull the skin off a ride pudding and was obviously catching more people due it running slow. You'd think Arriva might actually fix 104 so it can run at an appropriate pace and not end up wrecking the service?! May seem stupid to you, but makes sense to the controller and those at TfL or people who may have missed the bus that you were on. Chances is that it is close to the one in front as you mentioned and then the bus behind it was running late. That is the whole reason to keep it away from its leader, especially going through QSI points. Also how do you know VLA104 is slow, it could be the driver is slow.
9 times out of 10, it's not hard to tell whether it's the bus that is slow or the driver so I'm sure snoggle can tell the difference.
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Post by VPL630 on Aug 2, 2017 9:27:16 GMT
This. Generally on the 341 I will hold myself even if I am running late to try and maintain a gap but tbh alot of the drivers imo seem to be messing about as often I find myself catching my leader when I really shouldn't be as I am averaging between 10-15mph and serving every bus stop along the way, getting caught at red lights alot and the roads are clear. It is frustrating when you are running on your time or even a few late and you have to keep waiting at stops as there is nothing to do. Imagine a 29 pulling into Camden Town and barely picking up 5 passengers. all in all I'm not condoning harsh fast driving or reckless behaviour but smooth progressive driving 😉 20 Years of using that route I've never known such a thing to ever happen when it went bendy it just got busier and busier and now even with normal buses it's just horrible to use at any time of the day or night
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Post by snoggle on Aug 2, 2017 10:36:15 GMT
May seem stupid to you, but makes sense to the controller and those at TfL or people who may have missed the bus that you were on. Chances is that it is close to the one in front as you mentioned and then the bus behind it was running late. That is the whole reason to keep it away from its leader, especially going through QSI points. Also how do you know VLA104 is slow, it could be the driver is slow. I expressed an opinion. I am allowed to disagree with TfL's measurement system. I know all too well what you are required to do as controllers. It has been explained on here and I have been to an I-Bus room so have had a controller explain the system too. Heck it's even been explained on the television. I have actually read the bus service contract that is on line and looked at the performance measurement mechanism. I have also run a similar form of performance contract so know what the ins and outs are and how contractors respond to such mechanisms. And anyway since when did you defend TfL? You hate them with every fibre of your body. The driver on VLA104 was a younger driver. Apart from when they are new younger drivers tend not to dawdle IME. There are very few slow drivers on the 123 - I know who they are. I do look at LVF and you can see the buses which are knackered because they singularly fail to keep to time the entire time even across crew changes. Remember all this can be seen because we have access to the schedules so know when there are crew changes. Obviously that is not the same as managing the service as a controller but give me a tiny bit of credit for my observations and having used the service for 30+ years.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Aug 2, 2017 13:58:22 GMT
May seem stupid to you, but makes sense to the controller and those at TfL or people who may have missed the bus that you were on. Chances is that it is close to the one in front as you mentioned and then the bus behind it was running late. That is the whole reason to keep it away from its leader, especially going through QSI points. Also how do you know VLA104 is slow, it could be the driver is slow. I expressed an opinion. I am allowed to disagree with TfL's measurement system. I know all too well what you are required to do as controllers. It has been explained on here and I have been to an I-Bus room so have had a controller explain the system too. Heck it's even been explained on the television. I have actually read the bus service contract that is on line and looked at the performance measurement mechanism. I have also run a similar form of performance contract so know what the ins and outs are and how contractors respond to such mechanisms. And anyway since when did you defend TfL? You hate them with every fibre of your body. The driver on VLA104 was a younger driver. Apart from when they are new younger drivers tend not to dawdle IME. There are very few slow drivers on the 123 - I know who they are. I do look at LVF and you can see the buses which are knackered because they singularly fail to keep to time the entire time even across crew changes. Remember all this can be seen because we have access to the schedules so know when there are crew changes. Obviously that is not the same as managing the service as a controller but give me a tiny bit of credit for my observations and having used the service for 30+ years. I do give you credit, one of these days we would try to get all routes in Walthamstow area running DLA's as a kind gesture of goodwill to you. I really do love TfL, they are the pinnacle of public transport.............NOT!!! There are times when you want to rip your hair out from being on a bus that is going slow for time. I also used to use the 123 back in the late 80's and 90's. Its changed a lot now, I have never been a fan of headway or extreme loose timetables. The best thing is more stand time. But unfortunately trying to keep to timetable or headways on school holidays etc or when the road is dead is a nightmare.
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HCT Group
Aug 2, 2017 17:16:15 GMT
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Post by Volvo on Aug 2, 2017 17:16:15 GMT
This. Generally on the 341 I will hold myself even if I am running late to try and maintain a gap but tbh alot of the drivers imo seem to be messing about as often I find myself catching my leader when I really shouldn't be as I am averaging between 10-15mph and serving every bus stop along the way, getting caught at red lights alot and the roads are clear. It is frustrating when you are running on your time or even a few late and you have to keep waiting at stops as there is nothing to do. This is the problem I had when I did the 53's from PD. I know this isn't arriva based but for a very busy route you know something isn't quite right when you enter high busy town centres during midday and you are not picking up anyone, you know instantly your leader is really not getting on with his duty, and it really buggers me. Imagine a 29 pulling into Camden Town and barely picking up 5 passengers. I'm not here to complain about headways but I would want drivers to get on with their driving, fair enough some drivers are new and not use to the operation of high frequency routes but being a passenger in some busy routes, you really do see why the service mess up so easily even if it's not down to road condition. Taking forever to close doors, waiting for passengers not only on the opposite side of road but miles away (yes that has happened), driving way below the speed limit, labouring the bus which in itself is lacking power. all in all I'm not condoning harsh fast driving or reckless behaviour but smooth progressive driving 😉 This! Just had to speak to my controller as we are generally told to leave Waterloo 6 early and this is not a one off but every time no matter what time of day I am always able to maintain that 6 minutes or if I lose it pick up my time to be on time without speeding or driving recklessly etc simply because I don't clown around at stops and all this nonsense I see drivers do and because at certain points of the route you can be on time and following your headway but by the time you go two stops you can jumps to within 3 bars behind your leader and with no where to hold back as it the case on green lanes as you would just impede other buses and traffic etc. Now I had to wait at 1 stop for 4 minutes then another for 5 minutes to lose time which is very annoying as now school is out you really do notice the amount of running time you get on the 341s and certain times I cannot understand that with given 6 minutes extra why your constantly losing time infront of me why am I one of few that doesn't lose all this time ? As mentioned above it doesn't matter which day or time of day it's always the same and I'm tired of it now. There's times when my leader is losing 10 minutes after freaking midnight when the route is dead as a cemetery, how?
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Post by portman227 on Aug 2, 2017 19:18:47 GMT
This is the problem I had when I did the 53's from PD. I know this isn't arriva based but for a very busy route you know something isn't quite right when you enter high busy town centres during midday and you are not picking up anyone, you know instantly your leader is really not getting on with his duty, and it really buggers me. Imagine a 29 pulling into Camden Town and barely picking up 5 passengers. I'm not here to complain about headways but I would want drivers to get on with their driving, fair enough some drivers are new and not use to the operation of high frequency routes but being a passenger in some busy routes, you really do see why the service mess up so easily even if it's not down to road condition. Taking forever to close doors, waiting for passengers not only on the opposite side of road but miles away (yes that has happened), driving way below the speed limit, labouring the bus which in itself is lacking power. all in all I'm not condoning harsh fast driving or reckless behaviour but smooth progressive driving 😉 This! Just had to speak to my controller as we are generally told to leave Waterloo 6 early and this is not a one off but every time no matter what time of day I am always able to maintain that 6 minutes or if I lose it pick up my time to be on time witjout speeding or driving wrecklessly etc simply because I don't clown around at stops and all this nonsense I see drivers do and because at certain points of the route you can be on time and following your headway but by the time you go two stops you can jumps to within 3 bars behind your leader and with no where to hold back as it the case on green lanes as you would just impede other buses and traffic etc. Now I had to wait at 1 stop for 4 minutes then another for 5 minutes to lose time which is very annoying as now school is out you really do notice the amount of running time you get on the 341s and certain times I cannot understand that with given 6 minutes extra why your constantly losing time infront of me why am I one of few that doesn't lose all this time ? As mentioned above it doesn't matter which day or time of day it's always the same and I'm tired of it now. There's times when my leader is losing 10 minutes after freaking midnight when the route is dead as a cemetery, how? Virtually impossible to lose time on most routes during the night, you can drive 5mph and still be early on routes like N109 and others with excessive running times. This is the type of reason more and more passengers are being deterred from buses as they are god awfully slowly driven and get you from point a to b slower than anything micro living organism. I've had words with my leaders at the terminus point to pick it up a bit and they only seem to go slower, blaming it on road conditions. Enough of me complaining, we can only get on with our duties and abide to the rules.
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Post by portman227 on Aug 2, 2017 19:19:57 GMT
Imagine a 29 pulling into Camden Town and barely picking up 5 passengers. all in all I'm not condoning harsh fast driving or reckless behaviour but smooth progressive driving 😉 20 Years of using that route I've never known such a thing to ever happen when it went bendy it just got busier and busier and now even with normal buses it's just horrible to use at any time of the day or night This genuinly did happen on the 29 and it was the first time this had ever happened back in february, was amazed at how spacious the bus feels without passengers haha
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Post by capitalomnibus on Aug 2, 2017 21:43:12 GMT
This is the problem I had when I did the 53's from PD. I know this isn't arriva based but for a very busy route you know something isn't quite right when you enter high busy town centres during midday and you are not picking up anyone, you know instantly your leader is really not getting on with his duty, and it really buggers me. Imagine a 29 pulling into Camden Town and barely picking up 5 passengers. I'm not here to complain about headways but I would want drivers to get on with their driving, fair enough some drivers are new and not use to the operation of high frequency routes but being a passenger in some busy routes, you really do see why the service mess up so easily even if it's not down to road condition. Taking forever to close doors, waiting for passengers not only on the opposite side of road but miles away (yes that has happened), driving way below the speed limit, labouring the bus which in itself is lacking power. all in all I'm not condoning harsh fast driving or reckless behaviour but smooth progressive driving 😉 This! Just had to speak to my controller as we are generally told to leave Waterloo 6 early and this is not a one off but every time no matter what time of day I am always able to maintain that 6 minutes or if I lose it pick up my time to be on time witjout speeding or driving wrecklessly etc simply because I don't clown around at stops and all this nonsense I see drivers do and because at certain points of the route you can be on time and following your headway but by the time you go two stops you can jumps to within 3 bars behind your leader and with no where to hold back as it the case on green lanes as you would just impede other buses and traffic etc. Now I had to wait at 1 stop for 4 minutes then another for 5 minutes to lose time which is very annoying as now school is out you really do notice the amount of running time you get on the 341s and certain times I cannot understand that with given 6 minutes extra why your constantly losing time infront of me why am I one of few that doesn't lose all this time ? As mentioned above it doesn't matter which day or time of day it's always the same and I'm tired of it now. There's times when my leader is losing 10 minutes after freaking midnight when the route is dead as a cemetery, how? Overtime docket hunter. There is always one or two drivers that would do this to come off late when there is nothing out there. They would spitefully leave the stand late and crawl slow to make an overtime docket.
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Post by paulsw2 on Aug 3, 2017 1:37:33 GMT
[/quote]Overtime docket hunter. There is always one or two drivers that would do this to come off late when there is nothing out there. They would spitefully leave the stand late and crawl slow to make an overtime docket. [/quote] When I was a conductor on the 12's we had an inspector who just let you run no matter how late you were even if finishing so me and my regular dvr would have a conversation before we took over just loud enough for him to "overhear" "How big a docket shall we go for?" most times he would curtail us just to stop us getting overtime coz if he didn't,he knew I would work to the rule book by only ringing bus off from the platform observing ALL compulsory stops regardless and waiting for passengers to be seated etc and the amount of overtime on a Notting Hill and back would be considerable.(Me and my driver did not want the overtime but the inspector thought he was getting one over on us )
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Post by Volvo on Aug 3, 2017 21:54:06 GMT
Overtime docket hunter. There is always one or two drivers that would do this to come off late when there is nothing out there. They would spitefully leave the stand late and crawl slow to make an overtime docket. Unfortunately there seems to be alot of these on the 341s. I am tired of it, last week had to report my leader as he told me he always drives for dockets and that he was going to take his time this was after 9pm this time we were told to leave on our time and he left waterloo 13 minutes before me (as I was asked to hold back 2 minutes because the clown had told me what he was going to do) and by the time i got to Holborn circus I was on my time but only 2 bars behind him so i called up the controller and said he needs to be booked as he is clearly wasting time and messing up the service, my controller told me to go around him and he will deal with him. at the end of the day I care about the company and my job and I am not here to mess around.
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Post by portman227 on Aug 3, 2017 22:27:05 GMT
Overtime docket hunter. There is always one or two drivers that would do this to come off late when there is nothing out there. They would spitefully leave the stand late and crawl slow to make an overtime docket. Unfortunately there seems to be alot of these on the 341s. I am tired of it, last week had to report my leader as he told me he always drives for dockets and that he was going to take his time this was after 9pm this time we were told to leave on our time and he left waterloo 13 minutes before me (as I was asked to hold back 2 minutes because the clown had told me what he was going to do) and by the time i got to Holborn circus I was on my time but only 2 bars behind him so i called up the controller and said he needs to be booked as he is clearly wasting time and messing up the service, my controller told me to go around him and he will deal with him. at the end of the day I care about the company and my job and I am not here to mess around. Personally he should be barred from driving London buses, say he was dismissed, what's to say he won't join another company and mess up on thier bus network for his own gains. There are millions that rely on bus services and he is moving selfish just to please his pockets
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Post by Hassaan on Aug 3, 2017 22:48:27 GMT
Unfortunately there seems to be alot of these on the 341s. I am tired of it, last week had to report my leader as he told me he always drives for dockets and that he was going to take his time this was after 9pm this time we were told to leave on our time and he left waterloo 13 minutes before me (as I was asked to hold back 2 minutes because the clown had told me what he was going to do) and by the time i got to Holborn circus I was on my time but only 2 bars behind him so i called up the controller and said he needs to be booked as he is clearly wasting time and messing up the service, my controller told me to go around him and he will deal with him. at the end of the day I care about the company and my job and I am not here to mess around. Personally he should be barred from driving London buses, say he was dismissed, what's to say he won't join another company and mess up on thier bus network for his own gains. There are millions that rely on bus services and he is moving selfish just to please his pockets The worst example I had was surprisingly enough on the 101 last year. The first driver had been slow right from Wanstead and delayed the 104 and 474 behind it as High Street North isn't wide enough to easily overtake another bus. Then they took ages to change drivers at East Ham Town Hall, with two 474s overtaking. After that the new driver was very slow too! In the end it took 30 minutes from Ron Leighton Way to Cyprus Station, which usually takes about 18-20 minutes, and there was a 25 minute gap between it and the 101 in front (route runs every 12 minutes) . That was almost certainly the most angry I've been while using a bus, and I'm afraid to say it was extremely tempting to have a go at both of them (luckily in the end I didn't 👍). Really wish I sent in a complaint about that
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Post by capitalomnibus on Aug 4, 2017 19:49:28 GMT
Unfortunately there seems to be alot of these on the 341s. I am tired of it, last week had to report my leader as he told me he always drives for dockets and that he was going to take his time this was after 9pm this time we were told to leave on our time and he left waterloo 13 minutes before me (as I was asked to hold back 2 minutes because the clown had told me what he was going to do) and by the time i got to Holborn circus I was on my time but only 2 bars behind him so i called up the controller and said he needs to be booked as he is clearly wasting time and messing up the service, my controller told me to go around him and he will deal with him. at the end of the day I care about the company and my job and I am not here to mess around. Personally he should be barred from driving London buses, say he was dismissed, what's to say he won't join another company and mess up on thier bus network for his own gains. There are millions that rely on bus services and he is moving selfish just to please his pockets There are a few drivers that do this and ruin it for their colleagues with selfish behaviour. Yes it is nice at times to get a docket, but when you get some docket hunters that would do anything day in and out to delay the service in this way. It is simply not on. They are the type of driver that would finish late on a Sunday night when there is nothing out there on the road, but they would still come off 10+ minutes late.
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Post by Volvo on Aug 4, 2017 20:47:55 GMT
Personally he should be barred from driving London buses, say he was dismissed, what's to say he won't join another company and mess up on thier bus network for his own gains. There are millions that rely on bus services and he is moving selfish just to please his pockets There are a few drivers that do this and ruin it for their colleagues with selfish behaviour. Yes it is nice at times to get a docket, but when you get some docket hunters that would do anything day in and out to delay the service in this way. It is simply not on. They are the type of driver that would finish late on a Sunday night when there is nothing out there on the road, but they would still come off 10+ minutes late. Yes I had this last sunday night on the 341, I was finishing near 1 am and yet I caught up and overtook my leader before Highbury Corner Since I have been at Arriva I have only put in 3 dockets and they were all for more than 20 minutes due to heavy traffic, 2 on the 73s and 1 on the 341s. Other than that I just don't mess around I have no time for dockets.
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