Routes 363 and 517

[Deleted]

I thought I should put this here as its not really topical.

Can any one tell me any more information about these routes operating around the North London area.

Looking at my London Transport bus map from 2000 (of the Walthamstow and Chingford area) I can see that a route 363 starts from Tottenham Hale, then goes up Watermead Way, and then Montagu Road, then a double run via the Lee Valley Leisure Complex, and then up the Hertford Road, and I cant see where it goes then (probably Waltham Cross).

Then there is the 517, which i have seen pictures of operated by County Bus (Lea Valley). On the map it shows it operating around Bush Hill Park, Ponders End and Mollison Avenue.

Any more info would be much appreciated Thanks

[Deleted]

Both these routes were operated by County Bus (formerly London Country North East). I believe (although I am open to correction) that they were introduced when LT services were withdrawn from the areas north and east of Waltham Cross, which would be in the early 90's. The 317 was replaced between the Cross and Upshire by the 517, and the LT route to Hammond Street (originally the 279 although it had had several route number changes in the late 80's and early 90's) by the 363.

The 363 therefore ran Hammond Street - Cheshunt - Waltham Cross - Lee Valley Leisure Complex - Tottenham Hale, and the 517 Upshire - Waltham Abbey - Waltham Cross - Enfield - Oakwood Station.

I do not know for certain on what basis these routes were operated, obviously they were commercial (with certain journeys tendered to Herts/Essex) beyond the Cross, I believe they were commercial but accepting LT tickets in the LT area.

They were the first routes to serve many back roads in the Ponders End and Enfield area, which are mostly now covered (somewhat differently) by the 377 and 491.

In the early 2000's the routes were withdrawn from the LT area. I don't know whether the 377 and 491 were introduced first, or as a result of the 363 and 517 cutbacks. Either way this plus the increasing proportion of LT-area journeys made using pre-paid tickets of one form or another obviously made operation in the LT area unviable. The 251 which had previously existed to provide ECC contract journeys from Waltham Cross to Upshire took on its current routeing Hammond Street - Cross - Upshire to cover both outer ends of the 363 and 517.

The evening HCC contract journeys from the Cross to Hammond Street remained as 363 for some time. Some Potters Bar buses still have 363 on their blinds as this was (and is) worked in conjunction with evening 242s.

Hope this is helpful. If anyone else can be a bit more precise with some of the details please tell us as I'd rather like to know more about these routes as well!

[Deleted]

Thanks very much owen76, you have been very helpful

I have noticed that getting infomation about bus routes from the mid to late 90s seems quite difficult! I tried to buy a North East London bus map from December 2000 on eBay, but I lost the bid And I cant find any other bus maps from the 90s on ebay. Although, there are plenty of bus maps from the 60s/70s/80s to be found ;D typical

I found this fotopic gallery showing County Bus pictures. There is a great variety, with operations from Waltham Cross area, Harlow, Hertford and Romford

therestofmybuspictures.fotopic.net/c1618617.html

And heres a gallery showing a picture I was talking about of the 517, and also pics around Loughton:

eamonnsphotos.fotopic.net/c1300401.html

[Deleted]

Feb 14, 2010 14:22:23 GMT @truffles1234 said:

Thanks very much owen76, you have been very helpful

I have noticed that getting infomation about bus routes from the mid to late 90s seems quite difficult! I tried to buy a North East London bus map from December 2000 on eBay, but I lost the bid And I cant find any other bus maps from the 90s on ebay. Although, there are plenty of bus maps from the 60s/70s/80s to be found ;D typical

I found this fotopic gallery showing County Bus pictures. There is a great variety, with operations from Waltham Cross area, Harlow, Hertford and Romford

therestofmybuspictures.fotopic.net/c1618617.html

And heres a gallery showing a picture I was talking about of the 517, and also pics around Loughton:

eamonnsphotos.fotopic.net/c1300401.html

I had a rummage through my old bus maps today. I gave a lot of them away recently, most of the pre-war maps and 1980s and 1990s going first.

All I am left with is bus maps throughout the 1950s and 1960s, plus a lot of Green Lines maps for the 1950-1970 period, plus a few Tram and Trolleybus maps before and after the war.

[Tangy]

I do remember these routes pretty well from when I wa sjust getting into the hobby.

Route 363: Tottenham Hale- Watermead Way- Angel Road Station- Montagu Road- double run to Picketts Lock- Bounces Road- double run to Edmonton Green- Bury Street- Galliard Road- Ponders End High Street- Hertford Road- Waltham Cross then as per current 251H to Hammond Street. Frequency was every 20 or 30 minutes, no evening service. Usual buses were 0814D Varios with Plaxton Beaver body.

On Sundays it just ran hourly between Tottenham Hale and Picketts Lock, first bus at 1100!!! It didn't double run via Northumberland Park Tesco, you had hail it on the main road (with Watermead Way being Hail & Ride throughout its length back then). Route 192 terminated at NP Tesco from the north.

Route 517: Oakwood- as per current 377 to Ponders End High Street- then right Nags Head Road- Mollison Avenue- Bilton Way- Enfield Lock Station- Mollison Avenue- Waltham Cross then per current 251H to Upshire

Every 30 minutes Mon-Sat not evenings. Usual stock was Iveco Daily minibuses similar to this www.londonbusroutes.net/photos/505.htm

The two routes were run as a commercial service but were run under LLSA conditions, i.e. accepted all LT passes on both routes up to Waltham Cross. When Arriva Shires decided to withdraw them current routes 377 and 491 were created (the 491 combined bits of both the 363 and 517). In addition route 192 was extended south to Tottenham Hale.

[Deleted]

Feb 15, 2010 23:26:51 GMT Tangy said:

I do remember these routes pretty well from when I wa sjust getting into the hobby.

Route 363: Tottenham Hale- Watermead Way- Angel Road Station- Montagu Road- double run to Picketts Lock- Bounces Road- double run to Edmonton Green- Bury Street- Galliard Road- Ponders End High Street- Hertford Road- Waltham Cross then as per current 251H to Hammond Street. Frequency was every 20 or 30 minutes, no evening service. Usual buses were 0814D Varios with Plaxton Beaver body.

On Sundays it just ran hourly between Tottenham Hale and Picketts Lock, first bus at 1100!!! It didn't double run via Northumberland Park Tesco, you had hail it on the main road (with Watermead Way being Hail & Ride throughout its length back then). Route 192 terminated at NP Tesco from the north.

Route 517: Oakwood- as per current 377 to Ponders End High Street- then right Nags Head Road- Mollison Avenue- Bilton Way- Enfield Lock Station- Mollison Avenue- Waltham Cross then per current 251H to Upshire

Every 30 minutes Mon-Sat not evenings. Usual stock was Iveco Daily minibuses similar to this www.londonbusroutes.net/photos/505.htm

The two routes were run as a commercial service but were run under LLSA conditions, i.e. accepted all LT passes on both routes up to Waltham Cross. When Arriva Shires decided to withdraw them current routes 377 and 491 were created (the 491 combined bits of both the 363 and 517). In addition route 192 was extended south to Tottenham Hale.

Thanks very much Tangy!

The London bus network has drastically changed since the 90s, especially around the suburbs! Id just love to go back to the 90s and see the bus network, as I wasn't really interested in buses then.