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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2010 9:38:32 GMT
It has been confirmed that the Ware base is to close. It looks as if all the routes are going to Harlow
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2010 18:40:02 GMT
Can i ask, what is the source of the information? This is interesting, because all the Ware routes, which operate as Arriva East Herts & Essex Ltd have been cancelled on VOSA from 11th July 2010, including routes 310, 311, 395/396, 331. But from 12th July 2010, they have been re-registered under ARRIVA THE SHIRES LTD. This might mean that Arriva East Herts & Essex Ltd is being completley absorbed into Arriva The Shires Ltd, but the Harlow (the other East Herts & Essex garage) based routes haven't been cancelled and re-registered. I don't really know what this means. Here's an example from VOSA from the 310 service: Cancellation: Registration: Also, it has been RUMOURED that the Harlow operations will soon operate under TGM (part of Arriva) and will become known as Network Harlow (just like TGM's Network Colchester). Another interesting point, is that SM Coaches (who operate many bus services in and around Harlow under competition with Arriva) have registered the sites networkharlow.co.uk, network-harlow.co.uk, and networkharlow.net
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Post by vjaska on Jun 17, 2010 23:50:16 GMT
This might mean that Arriva East Herts & Essex Ltd is being completley absorbed into Arriva The Shires Ltd Arriva East Herts & Essex was absorbed into Arriva The Shires around 4-5 years ago. Shortly, Arriva The Shires and Arriva Southern Counties will be joined into one main group to be run by Southern Counties managing director Heath Williams. The name is likely to be something along the lines of Arriva South East. This paragraph is sourced from Buses April 2010.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2010 8:45:48 GMT
I know that Arriva East Herts & Essex was absorbed into Arriva The Shires about 4-5 years ago. I'm talking about the legal names. Ware and Harlow garage's legal name is under Arriva East Herts & Essex.
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Post by john on Jun 18, 2010 11:19:53 GMT
This might mean that Arriva East Herts & Essex Ltd is being completley absorbed into Arriva The Shires Ltd Arriva East Herts & Essex was absorbed into Arriva The Shires around 4-5 years ago. Shortly, Arriva The Shires and Arriva Southern Counties will be joined into one main group to be run by Southern Counties managing director Heath Williams. The name is likely to be something along the lines of Arriva South East. This paragraph is sourced from Buses April 2010. That's an interesting development! Especially if they end up having to renumber the SC fleet as there will be many conflicts between the two. In fact i remember the Cadets at GY being renumbered when they transfered from EH&E to SC from 45** to 35**.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2010 15:59:51 GMT
It has been confirmed that the Ware base is to close. It looks as if all the routes are going to Harlow Another point, I doubt Harlow would have the room for all the Ware routes, especially for the 310/311 as it has a fairly high PVR. If you look on Google Maps, you can see that Harlow (HA) is fairly small.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2010 11:08:30 GMT
Looks like it is true that Ware is closing. Harlow is being expanded, and the Ware operating centre being 'removed'. From the VOSA N&P 16th June 2010: EDIT: Sorry, Ware isnt closing! The Ware operating centre has been removed from Arriva East Herts & Essex and has been registered under Arriva The Shires. Further details can be found on the June 16th N&P from VOSA .
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2010 6:00:54 GMT
Looks like it is true that Ware is closing. Harlow is being expanded, and the Ware operating centre being 'removed'. From the VOSA N&P 16th June 2010: EDIT: Sorry, Ware isnt closing! The Ware operating centre has been removed from Arriva East Herts & Essex and has been registered under Arriva The Shires. Further details can be found on the June 16th N&P from VOSA . It all looks very confusing particularly as Harlow has given up recently a number of ECC contract routes which are out for tender. Harlow Grage is quite large for a Country grage I think it could take about a 150 buses. It currently operated nowhere near that number. It basically operates services around Harlow town Maybe they have there eyes on taking on some of the East London routes. Pehaps they have heard something about East London buses. Personaly I think the most likely outvome with East London is that it will be broken up with bits of the opeartion going to varoius companies. East London as such is not a viable business. Stagecoach could not make it work nor could the Australians. Most of the big players would probably not be allowed to take it on. There is already an OFT investigation onn about lack of competition in the bus market although at present London is excluded from that investigation Given they are increasing capacity at Stevenage, Harlow & Watford I suspect ultimtely Ware will go unless it gains more work. I canot see that on cost ground you could justify keeping it open for about 20 buses.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2010 20:00:02 GMT
It all looks very confusing particularly as Harlow has given up recently a number of ECC contract routes which are out for tender. Just wondering which ECC contract routes you mean? Many of Ware's Herts CC routes were given up, but I don't think Harlow have given up any Essex CC contracts yet. They still hold Essex contract routes 7, 381/382, 391, 541, 542/543, and the Harlow local evening and Sunday contracts. Harlow Garage is quite large for a Country grage I think it could take about a 150 buses. It currently operated nowhere near that number. It basically operates services around Harlow town. Well it is fairly large, but have you seen it on Google Maps or Google Earth...looks fairly small. Maybe they have there eyes on taking on some of the East London routes. Pehaps they have heard something about East London buses. Personaly I think the most likely outcome with East London is that it will be broken up with bits of the opeartion going to varoius companies. East London as such is not a viable business. Stagecoach could not make it work nor could the Australians. Most of the big players would probably not be allowed to take it on. There is already an OFT investigation onn about lack of competition in the bus market although at present London is excluded from that investigation. It may be a possibility that Arriva may give Harlow (HA) garage some east London routes, but Harlow is quite a distance from London, and Arriva would probably just expand existing Arriva London (or Arriva Southern Counties at Grays) garages Given they are increasing capacity at Stevenage, Harlow & Watford I suspect ultimtely Ware will go unless it gains more work. I canot see that on cost ground you could justify keeping it open for about 20 buses. Ware has definatly got an uncertain future. Although, its new allocation will be 33 buses, which is still quite a lot. Ware will be more secure if Arriva get more work though.
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Post by Tangy on Jun 21, 2010 21:49:14 GMT
Just wondering which ECC contract routes you mean? Many of Ware's Herts CC routes were given up, but I don't think Harlow have given up any Essex CC contracts yet. They still hold Essex contract routes 7, 381/382, 391, 541, 542/543, and the Harlow local evening and Sunday contracts. From 29th August Arriva Harlow will lose Sunday roues 4/10/11 and 12 plus routes 381/382/391 to Regal Busways.
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Post by vjaska on Jun 21, 2010 22:38:41 GMT
Harlow is quite beyond TfL's boundary plus the amount of dead mileage should rule that out indefinately
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Post by john on Jun 21, 2010 22:55:29 GMT
Harlow is quite beyond TfL's boundary plus the amount of dead mileage should rule that out indefinately The nearest routes Harlow could operate would be from either Debden or Waltham Cross. I personally can't see any TfL routes going to Harlow at all. The garage also looks quite small from the outside, but not sure how big it is inside. Here's an image i found farm3.static.flickr.com/2437/3734863722_d41ee807da.jpg Doesn't look any bigger than NS or BK, so guess around 120 mark
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2010 8:29:56 GMT
From 29th August Arriva Harlow will lose Sunday roues 4/10/11 and 12 plus routes 381/382/391 to Regal Busways. Thanks Tangy. Sounds interesting. Regal operated the 381/382 a few years back before it passed to Arriva. Will be great to see Regal get some more routes in Harlow again. (They do operate in Harlow currently, but only a few journeys on the 7A, and the Saturday only H1). Just wondering, where did you get the information about this from? I have been on the VOSA Bus Registration Search, and the routes in question are cancelled by Arriva from 29th August 2010, but nothing about Regal registering them.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2010 17:52:57 GMT
Harlow is quite beyond TfL's boundary plus the amount of dead mileage should rule that out indefinately The nearest routes Harlow could operate would be from either Debden or Waltham Cross. I personally can't see any TfL routes going to Harlow at all. The garage also looks quite small from the outside, but not sure how big it is inside. Here's an image i found farm3.static.flickr.com/2437/3734863722_d41ee807da.jpg Doesn't look any bigger than NS or BK, so guess around 120 mark The garage itself is not huge but it has a big yard & they have recently registered it for a 160 buses. Given they dont operate any where near that number of buses from it at present it's rather odd. I doubt their current PVR is more then 50
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Post by john on Jun 23, 2010 23:05:38 GMT
The nearest routes Harlow could operate would be from either Debden or Waltham Cross. I personally can't see any TfL routes going to Harlow at all. The garage also looks quite small from the outside, but not sure how big it is inside. Here's an image i found farm3.static.flickr.com/2437/3734863722_d41ee807da.jpg Doesn't look any bigger than NS or BK, so guess around 120 mark The garage itself is not huge but it has a big yard & they have recently registered it for a 160 buses. Given they dont operate any where near that number of buses from it at present it's rather odd. I doubt their current PVR is more then 50 I could find out quite easily if i could be bothered to ask my cousin. He used to work at Harlow under TownLink so may know the actual capacity
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