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Post by M1104 on Jan 19, 2013 15:46:02 GMT
The 407 should be double decked TBH - the 10.7m ADL's struggled on the route and I doubt the 10.2m Enviro 200's fair any better. Is there any low bridges on the 484 as I can't remember from memory - reason I ask is Q used a T on the route but was only part of the route. The 322 could use double deckers if it was rerouted at West Norwood via Norwood High Street (towards Crystal Palace), Ernest Avenue, Knights Hill (towards Clapham Common), Gypsy Road meeting up with its normal route at Gypsy Hill. The 322 could then be extended from Crystal Palace to Lower Sydenham via the 202 or 450 with the 315 taking up the Robson Road, Park Hall Road, Rosendale Road, Vale Street, St. Gothards Road section, meeting the 322 at Gypsy Road. The 315 could then follow the 3 to Crystal Palace taking the 322's place. I speculate that once the 350 contract is renewed the Tridents may transfer to the 407 for the remainder of that contract (until around October 2014 or 2016) so as to further utilise those 51 reg Tridents a little longer, assuming they are not needed elsewhere and if they are still in road worthy condition. Regarding the 322, are there any height restrictions along its present routing? If not then a 10m decker (TA or ED (97xx or 94xx)) should physically be able to be used on the entire route..... in theory and bearing in mind they are a bit wider than the Dennis Darts, But shorter than a 10 metre LDP which has been on route. I also remember when a Titan was reported used on the 484. Incidentally does the 484 do the same routine the 'old' 184 use to do? I remember the 184 serving Camberwell and East Dulwich but I'm not too clear on the rest of the routing.
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Post by DT 11 on Jan 19, 2013 15:49:19 GMT
At least three of Abellio's routes had chances of getting longer single deckers for their full pvrs; 152, 322 and 407 The 152 could have acquired 10.8m buses with their existing vehicles transferred to the 455 contract The 322 could have used the 9.4m Pointer Darts that WL had on the 100 (sending the single doored Darts off lease instead) The 407 could have had 10.8m (or even 11.3m) buses Moving over to London General, there was the possibility for the 163 and 164 to have longer single deckers up to 12m, which if possible could have been later on trailed on other routes like the 201. Regarding the 152. That is a very sensible idea! IMO, Also the 407s E200s should have been replaced with 10.8m E200s when the 290 was taken over by Abellio with the 290 using the existing E200s from the 407 and the remaining moved to the 455.
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Post by johnstait on Jan 19, 2013 17:09:34 GMT
In West London as someone has said the 350 could be relegated to Single Decks but I'd like to see the U3 double decked instead. Routes that serve the Heathrow area can get busy particularly at shift change times. Another Heathrow route I'm surprised is still single deck is the 285. John.
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Post by marlon101 on Jan 19, 2013 18:04:33 GMT
You need to be careful about possibly taking video clips out of context. My abiding suspicion is that this is a tube strike day. Certainly reminds me of the scenes on one so your thoughts re: Jubilee line suspension seem quite likely!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2013 18:27:16 GMT
For the P4 I 100% agree with them not putting 8.9m Buses on the Route as it certainly does not help!! The 42 Needs Double Deckers I agree. I emailed TFL about the 126 & 261 and got a pointless reply The 273 gets Empty around Grove Park and pretty much carries light amounts of Passengers to Chislehurst then duppies to Petts Wood. The 273 gets very crammed around Lewisham though, and slowly empties on the way to Grove Park.. Regarding the 152. That is a very sensible idea! IMO, Also the 407s E200s should have been replaced with 10.8m E200s when the 290 was taken over by Abellio with the 290 using the existing E200s from the 407 and the remaining moved to the 455. If you ask me the 407 should've been double-decked in 2009 while there was a good opportunity. Why shorter buses were chosen when 10.8m Darts struggled is very odd. The 152 could also be potentially double decked. Is there any low bridges on the 484 as I can't remember from memory - reason I ask is Q used a T on the route but was only part of the route. I doubt double deckers would fit round the Brockley end of the route - if 10.2m buses were rejected for being too tight, doubtful a decker would get round there. Not sure the Brockley residents would be too happy either.
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Post by moz on Jan 19, 2013 19:32:07 GMT
The 407 should be double decked TBH - the 10.7m ADL's struggled on the route and I doubt the 10.2m Enviro 200's fair any better. Is there any low bridges on the 484 as I can't remember from memory - reason I ask is Q used a T on the route but was only part of the route. The 322 could use double deckers if it was rerouted at West Norwood via Norwood High Street (towards Crystal Palace), Ernest Avenue, Knights Hill (towards Clapham Common), Gypsy Road meeting up with its normal route at Gypsy Hill. The 322 could then be extended from Crystal Palace to Lower Sydenham via the 202 or 450 with the 315 taking up the Robson Road, Park Hall Road, Rosendale Road, Vale Street, St. Gothards Road section, meeting the 322 at Gypsy Road. The 315 could then follow the 3 to Crystal Palace taking the 322's place. Not sure why you couldn't shove the 322 right along the length of Robson Road through to Croxted Road and follow the 3 up to Crystal Palace. The 450 could be cut back to Palace from Sydenham and sent along the 322 to Rosendale, then along the length of Rosendale Road and Norwood Road to Herne Hill, possibly even further along Milkwood Road and Coldharbour Lane to Camberwell. Moz
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Post by LX09FBJ on Jan 19, 2013 19:43:49 GMT
R70 in the morning rush hour was so bad, I left home at 7:20 not just to be able to get to college on time, and at contract renewal the buses were shrunk from 10.8m to 10.2m. There were some peak journey operated by London United Olympians, but these were removed in the previous contract. 235 is even worse than the R70. It's often packed in the off-peak, so the peak would be even worse. So glad I take the 111 now, even though I prefer the R70s buses which have better seats!
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Post by M1199 on Jan 19, 2013 19:52:08 GMT
In West London as someone has said the 350 could be relegated to Single Decks but I'd like to see the U3 double decked instead. Routes that serve the Heathrow area can get busy particularly at shift change times. Another Heathrow route I'm surprised is still single deck is the 285. John. I believe the 350 could run with MPD's, apart from 1-2 journeys and still have spare capacity. I've noticed even more so since moving along the 350 route 5 months ago how much the Tridents are such an unnecessary luxury. The U3 however, over the last 5 years has got much more busier and at times is crying out for double deckers, as you say, the Airport shift changeover can often see them leaving the Airport with standing room only and what with Brunel University, seemingly constantly expanding, a Dart can pull up at the Uni, empty and leave having left people behind. I feel Centrewest missed a trick, in that they could have converted it to DD using the Volvo's displaced form the 92 and thus ousting the now non standard DMC's. Like you, I'm amazed the 285 is still single decked, it's crying out for DD's, I'm sure I read somewhere though that there was issues using them round Hampton Tescos.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2013 20:55:58 GMT
The 407 should be double decked TBH - the 10.7m ADL's struggled on the route and I doubt the 10.2m Enviro 200's fair any better. Is there any low bridges on the 484 as I can't remember from memory - reason I ask is Q used a T on the route but was only part of the route. The 322 could use double deckers if it was rerouted at West Norwood via Norwood High Street (towards Crystal Palace), Ernest Avenue, Knights Hill (towards Clapham Common), Gypsy Road meeting up with its normal route at Gypsy Hill. The 322 could then be extended from Crystal Palace to Lower Sydenham via the 202 or 450 with the 315 taking up the Robson Road, Park Hall Road, Rosendale Road, Vale Street, St. Gothards Road section, meeting the 322 at Gypsy Road. The 315 could then follow the 3 to Crystal Palace taking the 322's place. I speculate that once the 350 contract is renewed the Tridents may transfer to the 407 for the remainder of that contract (until around October 2014 or 2016) so as to further utilise those 51 reg Tridents a little longer, assuming they are not needed elsewhere and if they are still in road worthy condition. Regarding the 322, are there any height restrictions along its present routing? If not then a 10m decker (TA or ED (97xx or 94xx)) should physically be able to be used on the entire route..... in theory and bearing in mind they are a bit wider than the Dennis Darts, But shorter than a 10 metre LDP which has been on route. I also remember when a Titan was reported used on the 484. Incidentally does the 484 do the same routine the 'old' 184 use to do? I remember the 184 serving Camberwell and East Dulwich but I'm not too clear on the rest of the routing. The old 184 didn't go to Lewisham, I'd be very suprised if a Titan did the 484 right through to Lewisham, very narrow residential roads where shortish Darts often struggle, also low trees.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2013 23:04:47 GMT
Have there ever been overcrowding on routes RV1 and the open boarding ones 507 and 521?
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Post by lc1 on Jan 19, 2013 23:09:55 GMT
Have there ever been overcrowding on routes RV1 and the open boarding ones 507 and 521? Yes (when there's problems with the trains/tubes in rush hour it's awful)....Was one of the reasons the bendies were introduced on the 507/521 to ease overcrowding, increase loadings in rush hour, even before the bendies the 521 (or 501 as it was then) used to leave people behind at London Bridge.
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Post by snoggle on Jan 19, 2013 23:17:15 GMT
Have there ever been overcrowding on routes RV1 and the open boarding ones 507 and 521? The Red Arrow routes load to jam packed proportions in the peak. This is why the 521 runs every 2-3 minutes and also why dual queuing operates at the termini to allow people on to the buses through each door. The bendy buses used to have three queues into each door. IMG_1136 by plcd1, on Flickr The RV1 can load heavily even off peak with loads of tourists using it. I have not seen it in the peak but I understand it is packed out with commuters from Fenchurch St, London Bridge and Waterloo.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2013 0:07:18 GMT
DWLs only have capacity for 49 passengers, only 19 standees, less than an LDP. When I was on 108 I would watch the rear doors like a hawk if anyone boarded through there the engine went off simple. Drivers that overload like that will get no sympathy from me when they lose their licence. If they count 49 as I used to maybe the PVR would get an increase but all the time they allow that To be fair, it is quite crap that a 10.8m bus has only 3 more max. capacity than an MPD! It does make you wonder what the point of such long buses is if they take 7 less passengers than an LDP, and would explain why NX don't hesitate about putting the LDPs on the 108... The shorter DWs have a higher capacity than the DWLs. 23 seated and 29 standing DWLs 30 and 19 standing
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2013 0:13:20 GMT
To be fair, it is quite crap that a 10.8m bus has only 3 more max. capacity than an MPD! It does make you wonder what the point of such long buses is if they take 7 less passengers than an LDP, and would explain why NX don't hesitate about putting the LDPs on the 108... The shorter DWs have a higher capacity than the DWLs. 23 seated and 29 standing DWLs 30 and 19 standing Dear me, I'll be glad to see the back of them in 2014/2016!
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Post by M1104 on Jan 20, 2013 3:03:18 GMT
In West London as someone has said the 350 could be relegated to Single Decks but I'd like to see the U3 double decked instead. Routes that serve the Heathrow area can get busy particularly at shift change times. Another Heathrow route I'm surprised is still single deck is the 285. John. I believe the 350 could run with MPD's, apart from 1-2 journeys and still have spare capacity. I've noticed even more so since moving along the 350 route 5 months ago how much the Tridents are such an unnecessary luxury. I reckon the Tridents are there more for company satisfaction, seeing as they did free up single deckers to cover new contract awards (saving the firm from buying/leasing more single deckers). Those Tridents would otherwise have been put in storage until they could find another use for them.
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