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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2013 3:13:17 GMT
I found a couple of videos on YouTube of the route 108 bus getting crammed for some reason, is it that the tube fares are too expensive for them? I hope we dont end up having a transport system like in other countries... But why do the iBus on single deck buses that still have anouncements saying "no standing on the upper deck" and "there are more seats in the upper deck" It really happened and people laughed
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2013 3:41:21 GMT
Its not because the tube fares are expensive people will still have to get into London by using one of thee and yes I say thee fastest transport system in London I.E, London Underground, no matter how much the cost is. You also got to understand the fact that having large crowds isn't due to fares, the 108 has a big connection within the Jubliee Line Stratford - North Greenwich and if the Jubliee Line goes tits up for some reason then the 108 has to pick up the pieces.
Single Decker buses gets crowded anyway due to Rush Hour, School Time AM/PM, Weekdays/End and Market Days. But then again I'm sure you'd know all about that.
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Post by M1104 on Jan 19, 2013 7:08:13 GMT
I found a couple of videos on YouTube of the route 108 bus getting crammed for some reason, is it that the tube fares are too expensive for them? I hope we dont end up having a transport system like in other countries... But why do the iBus on single deck buses that still have anouncements saying "no standing on the upper deck" and "there are more seats in the upper deck" It really happened and people laughed Regarding the ibus system, they are the same system installed universally on London's double and single deck buses and will therefore have the same preset messages. It would prove useful for example should a company lose a single deck route and gain a double back route where the system can simply be transferred over to the relevant buses.
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Post by DT 11 on Jan 19, 2013 8:12:18 GMT
The 108 is a though one. There's times when it's fairly empty and very busy. Unfortunately when the Jubilee Line runs into difficulties the 108 has to pay the debts of the Jubliee Line as it is the next most direct Link to North Greenwich.
I've said many times that the 108 needs 12 m Citaros on the next contract. I'm very glad that NX have finally decided to reduce the amount of LDPs on the 108, because they are totally inadequate the more standing space the better on the 108 I say.
Many of London's single decker routes are getting even busier. More recently the 132 had to be double decked to increase the capacity with existing PVLs which is a great thing, because it release a few more reliable DWLs from BX as many of NXs have in the past problems. I also think the 108 should be diverted to Stratford City this would save so much time on the route.
Routes in my area like 124, 178, 181, 225, 284, 202, 380, 484, P4 are becoming even busier day by day. 181, 284, 484 and P4 are sometimes busy end to end.
The other day a 484 was so busy 15 people had to wait for the next one. 10.8m buses would have been much better for this route!!!
The 380 now that it's using 10.2m darts is becoming even busier.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2013 8:36:42 GMT
The 484 is always busy but I doubt if 10.8m buses would get round some of the tight corners.
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Post by DT 11 on Jan 19, 2013 8:51:06 GMT
The 484 is always busy but I doubt if 10.8m buses would get round some of the tight corners. DP192 has served the 484.
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Post by mondraker275 on Jan 19, 2013 9:03:30 GMT
People hanging out at the back of buses? ...NB4L
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2013 9:20:35 GMT
The 108 is a though one. There's times when it's fairly empty and very busy. Unfortunately when the Jubilee Line runs into difficulties the 108 has to pay the debts of the Jubliee Line as it is the next most direct Link to North Greenwich. I've said many times that the 108 needs 12 m Citaros on the next contract. I'm very glad that NX have finally decided to reduce the amount of LDPs on the 108, because they are totally inadequate the more standing space the better on the 108 I say. Many of London's single decker routes are getting even busier. More recently the 132 had to be double decked to increase the capacity with existing PVLs which is a great thing, because it release a few more reliable DWLs from BX as many of NXs have in the past problems. I also think the 108 should be diverted to Stratford City this would save so much time on the route. Routes in my area like 124, 178, 181, 225, 284, 202, 380, 484, P4 are becoming even busier day by day. 181, 284, 484 and P4 are sometimes busy end to end. The other day a 484 was so busy 15 people had to wait for the next one. 10.8m buses would have been much better for this route!!! The 380 now that it's using 10.2m darts is becoming even busier. The only problem with the Citaros on the 108 might be that turn in East Greenwich, the DWLs often mount the kerb already. It could do with the capacity. The 202 could be double-decked if there was will to do it. I hope some is found. The 284 is getting a much needed capacity increase with the 10.8m Enviro200 - the interior layout is much more practical on them, too. The 124 has tight turns, so only option there is a PVR increase. The 225 could do with 10.8m buses but as it happens it's got perfectly adequate shorter LDPs. The ED workings on there are always welcome from my point of view. The 484 should've got 10.2m buses when it went to Abellio, and it's a mystery why it didn't really - the capacity is much needed. 10.8m might be a bit tight, there's some fairly tight turns around Brockley - however, that shouldn't stop a 10.2m going round there and 10.2m LDPs used to do it. The 380 got a much needed capacity increase with the Tempos and longer Darts. The P4 has one tight turn at the bottom of Honor Oak Park (the road) where a longer bus might struggle (the Tempos don't seem to go out on the route) and there's also moaning Dulwich residents and low trees to prevent double deckers on the route. PVR increase is the main thing that will help with that route (and not putting flipping MPDs on there!) The 178 is an odd route - at school times it's full to the brim with Thomas Tallis kids, and the rest of the day I've often been the only person on there. The B16 seems to have been route-tested to get DWLs round Kidbrooke (the tightest bit of the route AFAIK) so maybe 10.8m buses could be used - though that would obviously need route-testing. Other solution might be to schedule a couple of extra "schooldays only" buses in the morning and afternoon peaks. SE London seems to have a lot of single-decker routes, and the majority of them can't have their capacity increased. Aside the ones you mentioned, a couple of others also sprung to mind: The 42 - I'm personally hoping it's double-decked when the contract is up. Could use the capacity. The 126 - Surprised the opportunity wasn't taken to double-deck it when the contract renewed. Could certainly use it sometimes - if the 261 has trouble it becomes packed to the brim from Grove Park to Bromley. The 273 - Often packed to the brim by the third stop in Lewisham, and leaves people behind in Lee. Probably the problem is that it's pretty infrequent.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2013 13:03:03 GMT
The 108 is a though one. There's times when it's fairly empty and very busy. Unfortunately when the Jubilee Line runs into difficulties the 108 has to pay the debts of the Jubliee Line as it is the next most direct Link to North Greenwich. I've said many times that the 108 needs 12 m Citaros on the next contract. I'm very glad that NX have finally decided to reduce the amount of LDPs on the 108, because they are totally inadequate the more standing space the better on the 108 I say. Many of London's single decker routes are getting even busier. More recently the 132 had to be double decked to increase the capacity with existing PVLs which is a great thing, because it release a few more reliable DWLs from BX as many of NXs have in the past problems. I also think the 108 should be diverted to Stratford City this would save so much time on the route. Routes in my area like 124, 178, 181, 225, 284, 202, 380, 484, P4 are becoming even busier day by day. 181, 284, 484 and P4 are sometimes busy end to end. The other day a 484 was so busy 15 people had to wait for the next one. 10.8m buses would have been much better for this route!!! The 380 now that it's using 10.2m darts is becoming even busier. DWLs only have capacity for 49 passengers, only 19 standees, less than an LDP. When I was on 108 I would watch the rear doors like a hawk if anyone boarded through there the engine went off simple. Drivers that overload like that will get no sympathy from me when they lose their licence. If they count 49 as I used to maybe the PVR would get an increase but all the time they allow that
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2013 13:32:02 GMT
The 108 is a though one. There's times when it's fairly empty and very busy. Unfortunately when the Jubilee Line runs into difficulties the 108 has to pay the debts of the Jubliee Line as it is the next most direct Link to North Greenwich. I've said many times that the 108 needs 12 m Citaros on the next contract. I'm very glad that NX have finally decided to reduce the amount of LDPs on the 108, because they are totally inadequate the more standing space the better on the 108 I say. Many of London's single decker routes are getting even busier. More recently the 132 had to be double decked to increase the capacity with existing PVLs which is a great thing, because it release a few more reliable DWLs from BX as many of NXs have in the past problems. I also think the 108 should be diverted to Stratford City this would save so much time on the route. Routes in my area like 124, 178, 181, 225, 284, 202, 380, 484, P4 are becoming even busier day by day. 181, 284, 484 and P4 are sometimes busy end to end. The other day a 484 was so busy 15 people had to wait for the next one. 10.8m buses would have been much better for this route!!! The 380 now that it's using 10.2m darts is becoming even busier. DWLs only have capacity for 49 passengers, only 19 standees, less than an LDP. When I was on 108 I would watch the rear doors like a hawk if anyone boarded through there the engine went off simple. Drivers that overload like that will get no sympathy from me when they lose their licence. If they count 49 as I used to maybe the PVR would get an increase but all the time they allow that To be fair, it is quite crap that a 10.8m bus has only 3 more max. capacity than an MPD! It does make you wonder what the point of such long buses is if they take 7 less passengers than an LDP, and would explain why NX don't hesitate about putting the LDPs on the 108...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2013 14:36:02 GMT
The 108 is a though one. There's times when it's fairly empty and very busy. Unfortunately when the Jubilee Line runs into difficulties the 108 has to pay the debts of the Jubliee Line as it is the next most direct Link to North Greenwich. I've said many times that the 108 needs 12 m Citaros on the next contract. I'm very glad that NX have finally decided to reduce the amount of LDPs on the 108, because they are totally inadequate the more standing space the better on the 108 I say. Many of London's single decker routes are getting even busier. More recently the 132 had to be double decked to increase the capacity with existing PVLs which is a great thing, because it release a few more reliable DWLs from BX as many of NXs have in the past problems. I also think the 108 should be diverted to Stratford City this would save so much time on the route. Routes in my area like 124, 178, 181, 225, 284, 202, 380, 484, P4 are becoming even busier day by day. 181, 284, 484 and P4 are sometimes busy end to end. The other day a 484 was so busy 15 people had to wait for the next one. 10.8m buses would have been much better for this route!!! The 380 now that it's using 10.2m darts is becoming even busier. The only problem with the Citaros on the 108 might be that turn in East Greenwich, the DWLs often mount the kerb already. It could do with the capacity. The 202 could be double-decked if there was will to do it. I hope some is found. The 284 is getting a much needed capacity increase with the 10.8m Enviro200 - the interior layout is much more practical on them, too. The 124 has tight turns, so only option there is a PVR increase. The 225 could do with 10.8m buses but as it happens it's got perfectly adequate shorter LDPs. The ED workings on there are always welcome from my point of view. The 484 should've got 10.2m buses when it went to Abellio, and it's a mystery why it didn't really - the capacity is much needed. 10.8m might be a bit tight, there's some fairly tight turns around Brockley - however, that shouldn't stop a 10.2m going round there and 10.2m LDPs used to do it. The 380 got a much needed capacity increase with the Tempos and longer Darts. The P4 has one tight turn at the bottom of Honor Oak Park (the road) where a longer bus might struggle (the Tempos don't seem to go out on the route) and there's also moaning Dulwich residents and low trees to prevent double deckers on the route. PVR increase is the main thing that will help with that route (and not putting flipping MPDs on there!) The 178 is an odd route - at school times it's full to the brim with Thomas Tallis kids, and the rest of the day I've often been the only person on there. The B16 seems to have been route-tested to get DWLs round Kidbrooke (the tightest bit of the route AFAIK) so maybe 10.8m buses could be used - though that would obviously need route-testing. Other solution might be to schedule a couple of extra "schooldays only" buses in the morning and afternoon peaks. SE London seems to have a lot of single-decker routes, and the majority of them can't have their capacity increased. Aside the ones you mentioned, a couple of others also sprung to mind: The 42 - I'm personally hoping it's double-decked when the contract is up. Could use the capacity. The 126 - Surprised the opportunity wasn't taken to double-deck it when the contract renewed. Could certainly use it sometimes - if the 261 has trouble it becomes packed to the brim from Grove Park to Bromley. The 273 - Often packed to the brim by the third stop in Lewisham, and leaves people behind in Lee. Probably the problem is that it's pretty infrequent. The 202 could be double decked and surely deserves to be? Its only the North Downham estate bit and possibly the left turn just after Mottingham Stn towards Middle Park that prevents bigger buses on the 124, it used to be double deck years ago before these bits were added Longer buses on the 484 would struggle to get round, the odd rouge appearance is another thing Its crazy that routes like the 42 and 126 have to struggle with single deckers. The 108 needs a frequency increase, maybe just extra shorts between Stratford and Blackheath?
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Post by snoggle on Jan 19, 2013 15:10:05 GMT
I found a couple of videos on YouTube of the route 108 bus getting crammed for some reason, is it that the tube fares are too expensive for them? (videos deleted) I hope we dont end up having a transport system like in other countries... You need to be careful about possibly taking video clips out of context. The 108 can be busy but that is usually down to irratic operation causing gaps. I've experienced crammed full buses and empty ones. I very strongly suspect that the videos show what happens when the Jubilee Line is suspended. People will naturally migrate to a bus that connects them to the tube as the 108 does. Of course they could go south on several buses to connect with National Rail at Westcombe Park or Charlton. I would also point out that bus fares and suburban tube / rail PAYG fares, especially off peak, only differ by 10p or 20p. In some cases it makes far more sense to use rail than buses. I think this is now the second time I've made this point in response to you complaining about fare levels. It would be helpful to stick to the facts rather than the rhetoric. No one likes fare increases but it is only fares in, into or across Zone 1 on rail modes that are horrendously expensive. Oh and London, while it has a good transport network, most certainly can learn from transport systems in other countries but perhaps not the ones featured in the YouTube clips.
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Post by M1104 on Jan 19, 2013 15:12:05 GMT
At least three of Abellio's routes had chances of getting longer single deckers for their full pvrs; 152, 322 and 407
The 152 could have acquired 10.8m buses with their existing vehicles transferred to the 455 contract
The 322 could have used the 9.4m Pointer Darts that WL had on the 100 (sending the single doored Darts off lease instead)
The 407 could have had 10.8m (or even 11.3m) buses
Moving over to London General, there was the possibility for the 163 and 164 to have longer single deckers up to 12m, which if possible could have been later on trailed on other routes like the 201.
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Post by vjaska on Jan 19, 2013 15:27:26 GMT
The 407 should be double decked TBH - the 10.7m ADL's struggled on the route and I doubt the 10.2m Enviro 200's fair any better.
Is there any low bridges on the 484 as I can't remember from memory - reason I ask is Q used a T on the route but was only part of the route.
The 322 could use double deckers if it was rerouted at West Norwood via Norwood High Street (towards Crystal Palace), Ernest Avenue, Knights Hill (towards Clapham Common), Gypsy Road meeting up with its normal route at Gypsy Hill. The 322 could then be extended from Crystal Palace to Lower Sydenham via the 202 or 450 with the 315 taking up the Robson Road, Park Hall Road, Rosendale Road, Vale Street, St. Gothards Road section, meeting the 322 at Gypsy Road. The 315 could then follow the 3 to Crystal Palace taking the 322's place.
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Post by DT 11 on Jan 19, 2013 15:45:49 GMT
The 108 is a though one. There's times when it's fairly empty and very busy. Unfortunately when the Jubilee Line runs into difficulties the 108 has to pay the debts of the Jubliee Line as it is the next most direct Link to North Greenwich. I've said many times that the 108 needs 12 m Citaros on the next contract. I'm very glad that NX have finally decided to reduce the amount of LDPs on the 108, because they are totally inadequate the more standing space the better on the 108 I say. Many of London's single decker routes are getting even busier. More recently the 132 had to be double decked to increase the capacity with existing PVLs which is a great thing, because it release a few more reliable DWLs from BX as many of NXs have in the past problems. I also think the 108 should be diverted to Stratford City this would save so much time on the route. Routes in my area like 124, 178, 181, 225, 284, 202, 380, 484, P4 are becoming even busier day by day. 181, 284, 484 and P4 are sometimes busy end to end. The other day a 484 was so busy 15 people had to wait for the next one. 10.8m buses would have been much better for this route!!! The 380 now that it's using 10.2m darts is becoming even busier. The only problem with the Citaros on the 108 might be that turn in East Greenwich, the DWLs often mount the kerb already. It could do with the capacity. The 202 could be double-decked if there was will to do it. I hope some is found. The 284 is getting a much needed capacity increase with the 10.8m Enviro200 - the interior layout is much more practical on them, too. The 124 has tight turns, so only option there is a PVR increase. The 225 could do with 10.8m buses but as it happens it's got perfectly adequate shorter LDPs. The ED workings on there are always welcome from my point of view. The 484 should've got 10.2m buses when it went to Abellio, and it's a mystery why it didn't really - the capacity is much needed. 10.8m might be a bit tight, there's some fairly tight turns around Brockley - however, that shouldn't stop a 10.2m going round there and 10.2m LDPs used to do it. The 380 got a much needed capacity increase with the Tempos and longer Darts. The P4 has one tight turn at the bottom of Honor Oak Park (the road) where a longer bus might struggle (the Tempos don't seem to go out on the route) and there's also moaning Dulwich residents and low trees to prevent double deckers on the route. PVR increase is the main thing that will help with that route (and not putting flipping MPDs on there!) The 178 is an odd route - at school times it's full to the brim with Thomas Tallis kids, and the rest of the day I've often been the only person on there. The B16 seems to have been route-tested to get DWLs round Kidbrooke (the tightest bit of the route AFAIK) so maybe 10.8m buses could be used - though that would obviously need route-testing. Other solution might be to schedule a couple of extra "schooldays only" buses in the morning and afternoon peaks. SE London seems to have a lot of single-decker routes, and the majority of them can't have their capacity increased. Aside the ones you mentioned, a couple of others also sprung to mind: The 42 - I'm personally hoping it's double-decked when the contract is up. Could use the capacity. The 126 - Surprised the opportunity wasn't taken to double-deck it when the contract renewed. Could certainly use it sometimes - if the 261 has trouble it becomes packed to the brim from Grove Park to Bromley. The 273 - Often packed to the brim by the third stop in Lewisham, and leaves people behind in Lee. Probably the problem is that it's pretty infrequent. For the P4 I 100% agree with them not putting 8.9m Buses on the Route as it certainly does not help!! The 42 Needs Double Deckers I agree. I emailed TFL about the 126 & 261 and got a pointless reply The 273 gets Empty around Grove Park and pretty much carries light amounts of Passengers to Chislehurst then duppies to Petts Wood.
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