|
|
Post by snoggle on Mar 3, 2013 19:28:41 GMT
This is my own idea for trying to fix the 192's overloading problems and to make travel easier in and around Tottenham and Edmonton.
192 - remains unchanged as now
349 - restructured to run from Clapton Pond to Ponders End garage but on half of the current frequency. Approx x15 M-S peaks & daytimes, x20 other times.
449 - new service from Stamford Hill to Enfield Town via the 349 but with a diversion via Tottenham Hale station, Tesco / IKEA, Angel Rd Stn, A406 and then via 349 to Enfield Garage and then on to Enfield Town via 317. Approx x15 M-S peaks & daytimes, x20 other times.
Although there is some frequency reduction via Tottenham High Road this package creates several new links. One to give a link round towards Hackney from Tottenham and also a direct link to Enfield Town from the Upper Edmonton / Ponders End area. It also gives relief to the 192 from Tottenham to Edmonton Green and new links "round the corner" at Silver Street towards Angel Road / IKEA and from Tottenham Hale to South Tottenham / Stamford Hill.
It wouldn't be PVR neutral but the 349 has had resources stolen from it on at least 2 occasions in recent years.
Thoughts?
|
|
|
|
Post by RM5chris on Mar 4, 2013 20:42:33 GMT
41 up to IKEA?
|
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Mar 4, 2013 21:19:11 GMT
Could work but not every bus though as the frequency would be too great. 1 bus in 3 during peaks and daytimes would give a x15 headway which should be enough. It would not create as many links as my proposal though. I'm trying to give genuinely better links for people. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2013 21:23:33 GMT
Could work but not every bus though as the frequency would be too great. 1 bus in 3 during peaks and daytimes would give a x15 headway which should be enough. It would not create as many links as my proposal though. I'm trying to give genuinely better links for people. I'm quite an outsider to Tottenham and surrounding areas but I gather the problem here is a lack of West-East links - hence the strain on the GOBLIN? |
|
|
|
Post by bigbaddom1981 on Mar 4, 2013 21:34:35 GMT
I think it has been mentioned before, but there does need to be a connection from Tottenham to Stratford... I would extend the W3 up via Ikea and onto Lea Valley Leisure centre.
I'd re-route the 102 via montagu road and bounces road to relieve crowding on that section and re-route the 349 from Angel Corner via Ikea and Tottenham Hale onto Stratford via Walthamstow
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2013 21:38:19 GMT
I think it has been mentioned before, but there does need to be a connection from Tottenham to Stratford... I would extend the W3 up via Ikea and onto Lea Valley Leisure centre. I'd re-route the 102 via montagu road and bounces road to relieve crowding on that section and re-route the 349 from Angel Corner via Ikea and Tottenham Hale onto Stratford via Walthamstow I agree it is somewhat difficult to get from Stratford to North London by bus. The only proper link that exists is the 276 and that has overcrowded single deckers (which can't be improved, unfortunately). It seems to me like the 349 is at a loose end and running largely parallel to other more useful routes so the idea of a Stratford extension seems like a good idea. |
|
|
|
Post by RM5chris on Mar 4, 2013 21:45:43 GMT
Purely a personal thing but as a Tottenham resident - the withdrawl of the 73, our direct link to the West End felt like an amputation!
|
|
|
|
Post by ServerKing on Mar 4, 2013 22:04:43 GMT
Purely a personal thing but as a Tottenham resident - the withdrawl of the 73, our direct link to the West End felt like an amputation! and the prosthetic limb we had to make do with, the 349 was cut back to Stamford Hill from Stokey, so to get the 73 requires the 76, 149 or 243... They would argue our direct link to the West End is the Vic line  |
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Mar 4, 2013 22:11:01 GMT
Could work but not every bus though as the frequency would be too great. 1 bus in 3 during peaks and daytimes would give a x15 headway which should be enough. It would not create as many links as my proposal though. I'm trying to give genuinely better links for people. I'm quite an outsider to Tottenham and surrounding areas but I gather the problem here is a lack of West-East links - hence the strain on the GOBLIN? Not really. There are loads of such links but they are fairly slow even against the snail powered GOBLIN! 123 / 230 from Waltham Forest to Wood Green 41 runs east - west W3 runs east - west 259 - heads west from Seven Sisters 279 - heads west from Seven Sisters The issues are really north - south and the changing travel patterns. Business and retail is congregating around the T Hale Lea Valley line. There is one parallel road link which only has the 192 and 491 on it or close to it. Both of these routes are heavily oversubscribed. The existing all stations railway service is very poor on the T hale line because of all of the express services to places outside of London. TfL and Network Rail want to add 1 or 2 extra tracks on this corridor to allow separation of slow from fast services. If you could run a 10 minute train service then I am sure it would be very well used. The Seven Sisters - Enfield railway line has a massive level of parallel bus operation. My idea is to shift a bit of that resource to the relieve the 192 as it has small buses and narrow roads further up the route making a frequency increase difficult due to risk of buses meeting head on and being unable to pass. Creating a link across Seven Sisters from Stamford Hill / South Tottenham removes the need for so many people to change buses at Seven Sisters and then again at T Hale if they want to reach Watermead Way. If you want a bus option to Stratford then the quickest route is probably to extend my proposed route to Clapton down Lea Bridge Road and then down the link road to Ruckholt Road and then into Stratford City. While there is not a lot of traffic potential on the link road itself I do think this is the fastest route even recognising Lea Bridge Rd can become jammed. The one negative is that TfL are finally getting round to extending the 308 to Clapton Pond which potentially negates another route to Stratford nearby. One other idea could be to extend the 425 from Clapton to Stamford Hill then South Tottenham, Seven Sisters, T Hale, IKEA, Angel Road / A406, Silver Street and up to Edmonton Green. I suspect that might just make the 425 a bit busier! |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2013 22:58:08 GMT
I'm quite an outsider to Tottenham and surrounding areas but I gather the problem here is a lack of West-East links - hence the strain on the GOBLIN? Not really. There are loads of such links but they are fairly slow even against the snail powered GOBLIN! 123 / 230 from Waltham Forest to Wood Green 41 runs east - west W3 runs east - west 259 - heads west from Seven Sisters 279 - heads west from Seven Sisters The issues are really north - south and the changing travel patterns. Business and retail is congregating around the T Hale Lea Valley line. There is one parallel road link which only has the 192 and 491 on it or close to it. Both of these routes are heavily oversubscribed. The existing all stations railway service is very poor on the T hale line because of all of the express services to places outside of London. TfL and Network Rail want to add 1 or 2 extra tracks on this corridor to allow separation of slow from fast services. If you could run a 10 minute train service then I am sure it would be very well used. The Seven Sisters - Enfield railway line has a massive level of parallel bus operation. My idea is to shift a bit of that resource to the relieve the 192 as it has small buses and narrow roads further up the route making a frequency increase difficult due to risk of buses meeting head on and being unable to pass. Creating a link across Seven Sisters from Stamford Hill / South Tottenham removes the need for so many people to change buses at Seven Sisters and then again at T Hale if they want to reach Watermead Way. If you want a bus option to Stratford then the quickest route is probably to extend my proposed route to Clapton down Lea Bridge Road and then down the link road to Ruckholt Road and then into Stratford City. While there is not a lot of traffic potential on the link road itself I do think this is the fastest route even recognising Lea Bridge Rd can become jammed. The one negative is that TfL are finally getting round to extending the 308 to Clapton Pond which potentially negates another route to Stratford nearby. One other idea could be to extend the 425 from Clapton to Stamford Hill then South Tottenham, Seven Sisters, T Hale, IKEA, Angel Road / A406, Silver Street and up to Edmonton Green. I suspect that might just make the 425 a bit busier! The 425 can see a fair bit of traffic in the peaks, though it is a short route as it is currently. I don't think too much extension would be helpful as the reliability might end up going to pot though obviously the establishment of new links is helpful. I was speaking less in a literal sense of direction of travel and more of the East London area and links in the NW direction. A lot of links from the area don't make it past Clapton - admittedly this is a fair distance away but as I discovered the other day, a journey from somewhere like Archway can be a rather arduous one - the 106/254 are the only major routes I can think of that would be feasible to use in such a pattern. Even Clapton does not currently provide links much further than Stamford Hill, whereas I could get from Stratford to Croydon in one bus change thanks to the 108, or from Lewisham to Sutton likewise. Meanwhile Archway - Stratford involved a bus to Holloway Nag's Head, then a 254 to Bethnal Green, then an 8 to Bow Church, then a 425. Even if I had used the 25 and cut out the 8 and 425, it would have still been a very long journey. It becomes clear when you look at maps for places like Stamford Hill there is a great deal of North-South linkage, and very little to the East. It does then cause little wonder when you think about how successful the 276 and 393 are, as well as how crowded the 254 I used was even in the middle of the day! |
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Mar 5, 2013 0:51:09 GMT
I was speaking less in a literal sense of direction of travel and more of the East London area and links in the NW direction. A lot of links from the area don't make it past Clapton - admittedly this is a fair distance away but as I discovered the other day, a journey from somewhere like Archway can be a rather arduous one - the 106/254 are the only major routes I can think of that would be feasible to use in such a pattern. Even Clapton does not currently provide links much further than Stamford Hill, whereas I could get from Stratford to Croydon in one bus change thanks to the 108, or from Lewisham to Sutton likewise. Meanwhile Archway - Stratford involved a bus to Holloway Nag's Head, then a 254 to Bethnal Green, then an 8 to Bow Church, then a 425. Even if I had used the 25 and cut out the 8 and 425, it would have still been a very long journey. It becomes clear when you look at maps for places like Stamford Hill there is a great deal of North-South linkage, and very little to the East. It does then cause little wonder when you think about how successful the 276 and 393 are, as well as how crowded the 254 I used was even in the middle of the day! The 253/4 corridor is immensely busy most of the time. No surprise to get full buses in the middle of the day. People just turn up constantly on that corridor. Of course the easy way from Archway to Stratford is by rail. GOBLIN from Upper Holloway (5 mins walk from Archway) to Gospel Oak and then the NLL direct to Stratford. It costs about the same as a single PAYG bus fare. A bus alternative, but probably still arduous, is 4 to F Park, 106 / 253 / 254 to H Central, 276 to Stratford. Alternatively swap from 106 to 276 at Stoke Newington. Or 43/271 to Highbury, 277 to Mile End, 25 / 425 to Stratford. There are funny places on the bus network where moves in certain directions always require a change. Why do all buses from the Lea Bridge Rd go left to Hackney? None go directly west to Dalston or right to Stamford Hill and beyond. This sort of odd arrangement is repeated a hundred or more times across London. |
|
52000
Conductor
Posts: 140
|
Post by 52000 on Mar 5, 2013 6:57:15 GMT
Tottenham Hale has around 8tph into Liverpool St, 4 of those fairly empty Stansted Services, 2 stop at Hackney then 2 fast ( off peak) The trains to Startford/Hackney are normally very busy so maybe a direct bus link from say Enfield might reduce the crowding. Also could the W8 be extended down to Tottenham Hale via IKEA?
|
|
|
|
Post by Volvo on Mar 5, 2013 8:15:14 GMT
I think the 73 should go back to tottenham
And 41 to ikea/tesco sounds good
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2013 19:07:14 GMT
I was speaking less in a literal sense of direction of travel and more of the East London area and links in the NW direction. A lot of links from the area don't make it past Clapton - admittedly this is a fair distance away but as I discovered the other day, a journey from somewhere like Archway can be a rather arduous one - the 106/254 are the only major routes I can think of that would be feasible to use in such a pattern. Even Clapton does not currently provide links much further than Stamford Hill, whereas I could get from Stratford to Croydon in one bus change thanks to the 108, or from Lewisham to Sutton likewise. Meanwhile Archway - Stratford involved a bus to Holloway Nag's Head, then a 254 to Bethnal Green, then an 8 to Bow Church, then a 425. Even if I had used the 25 and cut out the 8 and 425, it would have still been a very long journey. It becomes clear when you look at maps for places like Stamford Hill there is a great deal of North-South linkage, and very little to the East. It does then cause little wonder when you think about how successful the 276 and 393 are, as well as how crowded the 254 I used was even in the middle of the day! The 253/4 corridor is immensely busy most of the time. No surprise to get full buses in the middle of the day. People just turn up constantly on that corridor. Of course the easy way from Archway to Stratford is by rail. GOBLIN from Upper Holloway (5 mins walk from Archway) to Gospel Oak and then the NLL direct to Stratford. It costs about the same as a single PAYG bus fare. A bus alternative, but probably still arduous, is 4 to F Park, 106 / 253 / 254 to H Central, 276 to Stratford. Alternatively swap from 106 to 276 at Stoke Newington. Or 43/271 to Highbury, 277 to Mile End, 25 / 425 to Stratford. There are funny places on the bus network where moves in certain directions always require a change. Why do all buses from the Lea Bridge Rd go left to Hackney? None go directly west to Dalston or right to Stamford Hill and beyond. This sort of odd arrangement is repeated a hundred or more times across London. Just happened to be the NLL went down that day - bad luck for me I suppose! What would've been a simple trip (bus to H&I, NLL to Stratford) ended up being a giant bus loop. I'm not sure why there's sort of "walls" in bus coverage where very few buses seem to cross - SE London to SW London is another one. Unless you're in Croydon, there's very little chance to go westward easily. They're strange irregularities, but I suppose usually at least one trunk route exists between places - very rare this isn't the case - even SE to SW can be achieved if you change at Peckham onto a 37. A lot of it seems to be that routes generally tend to gravitate towards Central London, and it becomes easier to go up and along rather than diagonally between a lot of neighbouring places. |
|
|
|
Post by towerman on Mar 8, 2013 16:37:35 GMT
I think it has been mentioned before, but there does need to be a connection from Tottenham to Stratford... I would extend the W3 up via Ikea and onto Lea Valley Leisure centre. I'd re-route the 102 via montagu road and bounces road to relieve crowding on that section and re-route the 349 from Angel Corner via Ikea and Tottenham Hale onto Stratford via Walthamstow Back in the day the 41 ran to Ilford and when that was withdrawn the 241 was introduced V & A docks to Wood Green via Stratford,Walthamstow & Tottenham Hale. |
|
