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Post by LondonNorthern on Jun 13, 2021 13:51:39 GMT
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Post by BE37054 (quoll662) on Jun 13, 2021 17:23:21 GMT
Why were they gotten rid of in the first place?
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Post by ianhardy on Jun 13, 2021 18:18:14 GMT
Why were they gotten rid of in the first place? Because the new contract awarded for the H37 from 03/03/18 specified new vehicles and RATP did not have any other routes that required 12 metre long single deck vehicles, so they were sold.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jun 13, 2021 18:20:01 GMT
Why were they gotten rid of in the first place? They were leased and generally companies don't like that - for example from the acquisition of First by Metroline/Tower Transit they got rid of the 266s VNs in 2017 (when they were 2 years old), Metroline got rid of the YX09s from the E routes in 2016 (except 1676/1694 which lasted at UX/AH) and also the 487 batch in 2017, and then them getting rid of the 10/11 reg from the 95, 487 and E6 in 2019. Generally stuff after 2008 was bought leased by First, there are countless other examples like the DML/DMVs at Tower
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jun 13, 2021 20:22:22 GMT
VNZ32329/32330/32343 have moved to First Wessex, Dorset & South Somerset and are now converted to open top VNW32350/32359 have moved to First Kernow
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Post by vjaska on Jun 13, 2021 23:08:34 GMT
Why were they gotten rid of in the first place? Because the new contract awarded for the H37 from 03/03/18 specified new vehicles and RATP did not have any other routes that required 12 metre long single deck vehicles, so they were sold. Not only that but RATP were also purging non Euro VI Optare's from their fleet at the same time so I don't think they'd of retained the OT's anyway. I know drivers didn't like them but I was quite fond of them, very nice to ride on.
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Post by BE37054 (quoll662) on Jun 14, 2021 17:39:19 GMT
Because the new contract awarded for the H37 from 03/03/18 specified new vehicles and RATP did not have any other routes that required 12 metre long single deck vehicles, so they were sold. Not only that but RATP were also purging non Euro VI Optare's from their fleet at the same time so I don't think they'd of retained the OT's anyway. I know drivers didn't like them but I was quite fond of them, very nice to ride on. What Optares did RATP have before except the H98s EV’S - but they would have been Euro VI.
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Post by dashing0ne on Jun 14, 2021 18:21:39 GMT
Not only that but RATP were also purging non Euro VI Optare's from their fleet at the same time so I don't think they'd of retained the OT's anyway. I know drivers didn't like them but I was quite fond of them, very nice to ride on. What Optares did RATP have before except the H98s EV’S - but they would have been Euro VI. Optare vehicles in the history of RATP:
1. Optare Versas for routes 283, 391, 411 and 465 (inherited from either NPC Challenger, Transdev or Quality Line Epsom Coaches Group except for the Versa's for the 391 which were new to RATP.) 2. Optare Solos were aquirred when RATP purchased Epsom Coaches Quality Line, they were allocated to the K5 (also had some commercial Optare Solo's)
3. Optare Tempos for route H37 4. Optare Solo SRs for routes 404 and 470 and they have the S1 OM's but not for long after that, and when they will pass to GAL no more Optare in RATP.
Optare was a rare type in the fleet for RATP and nearly all except for the H37 had had the Optare vehicles join the RATP fleet through company aquisition, where Optare vehicles from former operators like Quality Line Epsom Coaches had Optare in their fleet.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2021 18:34:37 GMT
What Optares did RATP have before except the H98s EV’S - but they would have been Euro VI. Optare vehicles in the history of RATP:
1. Optare Versas for routes 283, 391, 411 and 465 (inherited from either NPC Challenger, Transdev or Quality Line Epsom Coaches Group) 2. Optare Solos were aquirred when RATP purchased Epsom Coaches Quality Line, they were allocated to the K5 (also had some commercial Optare Solo's)
3. Optare Tempos for route H37 4. Optare Solo SRs for routes 404 and 470 and they have the S1 OM's but not for long after that, and when they will pass to GAL no more Optare in RATP.
Optare was a rare type in the fleet for RATP and nearly all except for the H37 had had the Optare vehicles join the RATP fleet through company aquisition, where Optare vehicles from former operators like Quality Line Epsom Coaches had Optare in their fleet.
Strictly speaking the 404 and 470 both had Solos at the time of the RATP acquisition, the SR models were introduced later.
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Post by snowman on Jun 14, 2021 21:22:00 GMT
What Optares did RATP have before except the H98s EV’S - but they would have been Euro VI. Optare vehicles in the history of RATP:
1. Optare Versas for routes 283, 391, 411 and 465 (inherited from either NPC Challenger, Transdev or Quality Line Epsom Coaches Group) 2. Optare Solos were aquirred when RATP purchased Epsom Coaches Quality Line, they were allocated to the K5 (also had some commercial Optare Solo's)
3. Optare Tempos for route H37 4. Optare Solo SRs for routes 404 and 470 and they have the S1 OM's but not for long after that, and when they will pass to GAL no more Optare in RATP.
Optare was a rare type in the fleet for RATP and nearly all except for the H37 had had the Optare vehicles join the RATP fleet through company aquisition, where Optare vehicles from former operators like Quality Line Epsom Coaches had Optare in their fleet.
Not 100% sure if they were still around in 2011 when RATP took over London United There were 8 Optare Vecta (inherited from Westlink), which had been later used on 371, but ended their days as trainers (fleet MV1-8 ?)
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Post by redexpress on Jun 15, 2021 7:31:10 GMT
What Optares did RATP have before except the H98s EV’S - but they would have been Euro VI. Optare vehicles in the history of RATP:
1. Optare Versas for routes 283, 391, 411 and 465 (inherited from either NPC Challenger, Transdev or Quality Line Epsom Coaches Group) 2. Optare Solos were aquirred when RATP purchased Epsom Coaches Quality Line, they were allocated to the K5 (also had some commercial Optare Solo's)
3. Optare Tempos for route H37 4. Optare Solo SRs for routes 404 and 470 and they have the S1 OM's but not for long after that, and when they will pass to GAL no more Optare in RATP.
Optare was a rare type in the fleet for RATP and nearly all except for the H37 had had the Optare vehicles join the RATP fleet through company aquisition, where Optare vehicles from former operators like Quality Line Epsom Coaches had Optare in their fleet.
The Versas for the 391 were new to London United. The others were all inherited via takeovers.
Not sure how far back you want to go, but RATP had a 25% stake in Transdev from 2002 so were already part-owners of LU before they took full ownership in 2011. London United had a small batch of Excels for a part allocation on the 371 (alongside the ex-Westlink Vectas mentioned by snowman ).
Going further back there were also MetroRiders inherited at privatisation, and the takeover of Westlink included a batch of Deltas and more MetroRiders. I think these had all left the fleet prior to 2002 though.
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Post by dashing0ne on Jun 15, 2021 14:29:16 GMT
Optare vehicles in the history of RATP:
1. Optare Versas for routes 283, 391, 411 and 465 (inherited from either NPC Challenger, Transdev or Quality Line Epsom Coaches Group) 2. Optare Solos were aquirred when RATP purchased Epsom Coaches Quality Line, they were allocated to the K5 (also had some commercial Optare Solo's)
3. Optare Tempos for route H37 4. Optare Solo SRs for routes 404 and 470 and they have the S1 OM's but not for long after that, and when they will pass to GAL no more Optare in RATP.
Optare was a rare type in the fleet for RATP and nearly all except for the H37 had had the Optare vehicles join the RATP fleet through company aquisition, where Optare vehicles from former operators like Quality Line Epsom Coaches had Optare in their fleet.
The Versas for the 391 were new to London United. The others were all inherited via takeovers.
Not sure how far back you want to go, but RATP had a 25% stake in Transdev from 2002 so were already part-owners of LU before they took full ownership in 2011. London United had a small batch of Excels for a part allocation on the 371 (alongside the ex-Westlink Vectas mentioned by snowman ).
Going further back there were also MetroRiders inherited at privatisation, and the takeover of Westlink included a batch of Deltas and more MetroRiders. I think these had all left the fleet prior to 2002 though.
The H37 Tempo's were they new to RATP?
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Post by vjaska on Jun 15, 2021 14:48:28 GMT
The Versas for the 391 were new to London United. The others were all inherited via takeovers. Not sure how far back you want to go, but RATP had a 25% stake in Transdev from 2002 so were already part-owners of LU before they took full ownership in 2011. London United had a small batch of Excels for a part allocation on the 371 (alongside the ex-Westlink Vectas mentioned by snowman ). Going further back there were also MetroRiders inherited at privatisation, and the takeover of Westlink included a batch of Deltas and more MetroRiders. I think these had all left the fleet prior to 2002 though.
The H37 Tempo's were they new to RATP? The sale of London United to RATP was completed in March 2011 with the OT's for the H37 delivered through April & May so highly likely it was Transdev who actually ordered them but they arrived under RATP ownership.
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Post by redexpress on Jun 15, 2021 15:03:42 GMT
The H37 Tempo's were they new to RATP? The sale of London United to RATP was completed in March 2011 with the OT's for the H37 delivered through April & May so highly likely it was Transdev who actually ordered them but they arrived under RATP ownership. Worth noting that RATP didn't exactly *buy* London United. RATP had a stake in Transdev, but wanted to exit from Transdev in advance of the planned merger between Transdev and Veolia. In order to exit from Transdev they negotiated to take over part of Transdev's operations, equivalent to their share. This included London United plus the ex-NCP operations (which had until then been operated on the London Sovereign licence). This process was completed in 2011.
You're quite right that the Tempos would have been ordered under Transdev management. I guess one effect of the transfer of the company to RATP management was immediately obvious in that they ordered Citaros instead of more Tempos for the 203, which started its new contract later that year.
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Post by paulo on Jun 15, 2021 15:06:21 GMT
The sale of London United to RATP was completed in March 2011 with the OT's for the H37 delivered through April & May so highly likely it was Transdev who actually ordered them but they arrived under RATP ownership. Worth noting that RATP didn't exactly *buy* London United. RATP had a stake in Transdev, but wanted to exit from Transdev in advance of the planned merger between Transdev and Veolia. In order to exit from Transdev they negotiated to take over part of Transdev's operations, equivalent to their share. This included London United plus the ex-NCP operations (which had until then been operated on the London Sovereign licence). This process was completed in 2011. You're quite right that the Tempos would have been ordered under Transdev management. I guess one effect of the transfer of the company to RATP management was immediately obvious in that they ordered Citaros instead of more Tempos for the 203, which started its new contract later that year.
From memory, Optare couldn’t deliver any more Tempo’s within acceptable timescales so the 203 order was switched to Citario’s
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