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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2013 13:03:44 GMT
Just an example. The 102 Edmonton Green-Brent Cross extended from Brent Cross to Hammersmith - replacing the 266.
Possibly a 102X from Eedmonton Green calling only at Angel Lane/Silver Street-Great Cambridge Road-Green Lanes/North Circular Road-Bounds Green Station-Colney Hatch Lane/Alexandra Park-Muswell Hill-East Finchley Station-Henly's Corner-Temple Fortune Lane-Golders Green Station-Hendon Way/Pennine Drive-Brent Cross-Humber Road/Edgware Road-Cricklewood Bus Garage-Willesden Green Station-Willesden Bus Garage-Willesden Magistrates Court-Harlesden Jubilee Clock-North Acton Station-Action Main Line Station-Acton Old Town Hall-Uxbridge Road (at Askew Road)-Goldhawk Road-Hammersmith.
Not sure if there would be any benefit in a 102A service working Edmonton Green-Green Lanes/North Circular Road and then direct to Henly's Corner along the North Circular before resuming existing route via Temple Fortune Lane and Golders Green Station.
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Post by ServerKing on Jul 20, 2013 13:39:37 GMT
The only thing is the PVR would be ridiculous, and the extended route passes thru notorious traffic areas (notorious for jams, esp Acton and Harlesden  ). A good West to North route is needed, I think the 112 could be extended to Turnpike Lane or back to Palmers Green. TBH I doubt future super long routes such as the 243 Wood Green to North Brentford Quarter via Waterloo, Tulse Hill, Clapham Common, Hammersmith and Chiswick would ever happen, even with a PVR of 150 DW's or so  Shh! You'll give TfL more silly ideas  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2013 14:58:25 GMT
Generally I have no problem with long routes, and there's quite a few successful long routes in London - the 25, 27 and 358 are a few examples where they've been pretty successful. However, they're only really useful if a) they don't run into too many traffic hotspots - the more of these the route hits, the less reliable it becomes, and b) if there's actually demand to go a significant distance along the route. Passengers on the 25 will often go from Stratford to Oxford Circus, and likewise on the 358 I've seen people going pretty much end-to-end on there. Extending routes to places where there's pretty much zero demand to go to, however (e.g. extending the 37 back to Hounslow is one that's often cited, and one that can't be useful to too many people - who would want to go from Peckham to Hounslow, after all...)
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Post by M1104 on Jul 20, 2013 16:36:06 GMT
Generally I have no problem with long routes, and there's quite a few successful long routes in London - the 25, 27 and 358 are a few examples where they've been pretty successful. However, they're only really useful if a) they don't run into too many traffic hotspots - the more of these the route hits, the less reliable it becomes, and b) if there's actually demand to go a significant distance along the route. Passengers on the 25 will often go from Stratford to Oxford Circus, and likewise on the 358 I've seen people going pretty much end-to-end on there. Extending routes to places where there's pretty much zero demand to go to, however (e.g. extending the 37 back to Hounslow is one that's often cited, and one that can't be useful to too many people - who would want to go from Peckham to Hounslow, after all...) Even when the 37 was Peckham to Hounslow during the 80s it was still mainly in overlapping sections, mainly Peckham to Putney (Richmond during weekends) and Clapham Junction to Hounslow. There were some weekday through buses in the morning peak (from AV) and after the evening peak from CA (then SW). |
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Post by vjaska on Jul 20, 2013 23:33:40 GMT
Generally I have no problem with long routes, and there's quite a few successful long routes in London - the 25, 27 and 358 are a few examples where they've been pretty successful. However, they're only really useful if a) they don't run into too many traffic hotspots - the more of these the route hits, the less reliable it becomes, and b) if there's actually demand to go a significant distance along the route. Passengers on the 25 will often go from Stratford to Oxford Circus, and likewise on the 358 I've seen people going pretty much end-to-end on there. Extending routes to places where there's pretty much zero demand to go to, however (e.g. extending the 37 back to Hounslow is one that's often cited, and one that can't be useful to too many people - who would want to go from Peckham to Hounslow, after all...) If I was in Peckham, I'd want to go anywhere just to the escape the hell Peckham is  In all serious, even if there was demand from Peckham to Hounslow, it would run into too many traffic hotspots - Brixton, Putney & the South Circular whilst Clapham Common, Clapham Junction, Wandsworth & Richmond can easily throw up problems at any time. I also suspect Hounslow can be a traffic hotspot but it's not my area to comment. |
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Post by ServerKing on Jul 21, 2013 7:19:41 GMT
Generally I have no problem with long routes, and there's quite a few successful long routes in London - the 25, 27 and 358 are a few examples where they've been pretty successful. However, they're only really useful if a) they don't run into too many traffic hotspots - the more of these the route hits, the less reliable it becomes, and b) if there's actually demand to go a significant distance along the route. Passengers on the 25 will often go from Stratford to Oxford Circus, and likewise on the 358 I've seen people going pretty much end-to-end on there. Extending routes to places where there's pretty much zero demand to go to, however (e.g. extending the 37 back to Hounslow is one that's often cited, and one that can't be useful to too many people - who would want to go from Peckham to Hounslow, after all...) If I was in Peckham, I'd want to go anywhere just to the escape the hell Peckham is In all serious, even if there was demand from Peckham to Hounslow, it would run into too many traffic hotspots - Brixton, Putney & the South Circular whilst Clapham Common, Clapham Junction, Wandsworth & Richmond can easily throw up problems at any time. I also suspect Hounslow can be a traffic hotspot but it's not my area to comment. the only good thing to come out of Peckham is the 197 bus, lol TBH with the Overground, and soon Crossrail, it will be quicker to go by train to such areas than sit in a bus in traffic doing the same route. I'm sure TfL don't want to have buses just carrying oxygen if certain sections of a long route just aren't used |
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Post by marlon101 on Jul 21, 2013 19:29:37 GMT
Generally I have no problem with long routes, and there's quite a few successful long routes in London - the 25, 27 and 358 are a few examples where they've been pretty successful. However, they're only really useful if a) they don't run into too many traffic hotspots - the more of these the route hits, the less reliable it becomes, and b) if there's actually demand to go a significant distance along the route. Passengers on the 25 will often go from Stratford to Oxford Circus, and likewise on the 358 I've seen people going pretty much end-to-end on there. Extending routes to places where there's pretty much zero demand to go to, however (e.g. extending the 37 back to Hounslow is one that's often cited, and one that can't be useful to too many people - who would want to go from Peckham to Hounslow, after all...) I've often thought the 51 is a bit long (one of the longest in the area) and it seems to do alright and it manages to find its way through a number of traffic hotspots. I'm not sure PVR should be an issue (a route needs what it needs, so what?) but ensuring that it is timetabled sensibly to take into account traffic delays which normally crop up in the same places, at the same times and take roughly just as long to get through each day, owing to shocking council road management. Completely agree with you though mredd - long routes are rather pointless if they're used in bits and pieces but as you say, the 25 carries a remarkable amount of through traffic more than justifying its length IMO. |
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Post by LX09FBJ on Jul 21, 2013 19:36:14 GMT
Some ideas of my own....
9 Heathrow T5-Becontree Heath
15 Richmond-Romford Market
232 Turnpike Lane-Hounslow
270 Mitcham to Hampton
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Post by vjaska on Jul 21, 2013 21:13:37 GMT
Some ideas of my own.... 9 Heathrow T5-Becontree Heath 15 Richmond-Romford Market 232 Turnpike Lane-Hounslow 270 Mitcham to Hampton All the above wouldn't work without overlapping sections which would render each route pointless. The 9 would get caught out in Central London without even mentioning any other place along the route, same with the 15. The 232 would get screwed up on the North Circular Road whilst what will happen to the current 270 between Mitcham & Putney Bridge. |
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Post by LX09FBJ on Jul 22, 2013 14:00:45 GMT
Some ideas of my own.... 9 Heathrow T5-Becontree Heath 15 Richmond-Romford Market 232 Turnpike Lane-Hounslow 270 Mitcham to Hampton All the above wouldn't work without overlapping sections which would render each route pointless. The 9 would get caught out in Central London without even mentioning any other place along the route, same with the 15. The 232 would get screwed up on the North Circular Road whilst what will happen to the current 270 between Mitcham & Putney Bridge. Unfortunately these aren't sensible ideas, I was just messing! But in all seriousness there are some extension ideas which do make sense, e.g. extending the 190 to South Kensington and increasing its frequency, and by extending the 337 to Manor Circus or Pools on the Park, you get more stand space for the 190. An orbital service round the North and South circulars is another idea I have (like the Outer Circle in Birmingham) but maybe with some deviation to avoid congestion. Also, I would propose extending the 'Joint 24 hour service' night routes (e.g. N9, N87 etc) to form long 24 hour routes to the suburbs (but maybe cut the N9 to Hounslow only), a new route 409 would run from Brentford, Great West Quarter to T5 via the current N9. |
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). A good West to North route is needed, I think the 112 could be extended to Turnpike Lane or back to Palmers Green. 
