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Post by snoggle on Oct 3, 2013 16:55:16 GMT
There is a consultation underway (ends 4/10/13) about the content of the extended franchise for South Eastern. South Eastern are likely to get a huge extension - over 4 years - to their franchise and yet it is one of the worst franchises in terms of service in London. London Travelwatch have provided a response which sets out a lot of useful, but potentially expensive, comments about improving the franchise. Although there is a major issue - rebuilding London Bridge station - that will affect the franchise for several years a lot of what Travelwatch suggest makes a huge amount of sense in terms of really improving services in the London area. I suspect that the DfT will decide much of it is unaffordable which would be a shame but something has to be done as there are a lot of very fed up people in South Eastern's territory who have to tolerate shoddy quality and relatively poor service frequencies.
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Oct 3, 2013 17:36:43 GMT
This franchise by now should have been moved to TfL, yet a politically motivated decision by the DfT on behalf of Kent County Council and Tory MP's had unwarranted fears about rail paths being lost to Londoners.
The current situation on Southeastern where services drop to 2tph on during evenings and Sundays is woeful, along with the poor Victoria to Dartford service (which recently got an extension of ONE extra train per day) needs to be addressed. When London Overground and Southern can come up with something that resembles a metro train service on Sundays, SET comes over as a TOC who'll stick to the letter of the franchise and not for it's passengers in London.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 3, 2013 18:11:38 GMT
This franchise by now should have been moved to TfL, yet a politically motivated decision by the DfT on behalf of Kent County Council and Tory MP's had unwarranted fears about rail paths being lost to Londoners. The current situation on Southeastern where services drop to 2tph on during evenings and Sundays is woeful, along with the poor Victoria to Dartford service (which recently got an extension of ONE extra train per day) needs to be addressed. When London Overground and Southern can come up with something that resembles a metro train service on Sundays, SET comes over as a TOC who'll stick to the letter of the franchise and not for it's passengers in London. The big difference is that Southern & London Overground operate their services efficiently and are quite reliable - it could show that they look like they are there to help the passengers rather than hinder them.
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Post by twobellstogo on Oct 6, 2013 12:34:23 GMT
Well...as a regular Southeastern commuter, I can say that some things they do well. The trains are clean and much more reliable than 10 years ago ( the change to the Networkers since they had new Hitachi equipment fitted has been remarkable) and services do generally turn up when they should do.
However...
There are not nearly enough trains on Sundays or in the evenings. What would be wrong with extending the Sunday London Bridge-Plumstead service to Dartford? Or introducing a x30 min. Sunday service on the Victoria-Bexleyheath-Dartford line? Or a Sunday service on the Bromley North spur?
I hope that some of the Travelwatch recommendations are acted on. I doubt they will be, but I live in hope. The biggest drawback to Southeastern Trains at the moment is a perception that the company couldn't care less about its passengers. It has much to do to revise that perception.
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Oct 6, 2013 15:49:23 GMT
I hope that some of the Travelwatch recommendations are acted on. I doubt they will be, but I live in hope. The biggest drawback to Southeastern Trains at the moment is a perception that the company couldn't care less about its passengers. It has much to do to revise that perception. You wouldn't think that Southern and Southeastern have the same parent company considering the contrast in customer service and train services. Some things have improved since GoVia took over the franchise from public hands, such as at least 6tph off-peak on the Greenwich line and 8tph at Abbey Wood, Woolwich Arsenal and Charlton. Yet it drops in the evening and only 2tph all day on Sunday. Even if TfL had have taken over, I suspect it'd be evenings and weekends where they could've make improvements.
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Post by snoggle on Oct 6, 2013 17:20:21 GMT
I hope that some of the Travelwatch recommendations are acted on. I doubt they will be, but I live in hope. The biggest drawback to Southeastern Trains at the moment is a perception that the company couldn't care less about its passengers. It has much to do to revise that perception. You wouldn't think that Southern and Southeastern have the same parent company considering the contrast in customer service and train services. Some things have improved since GoVia took over the franchise from public hands, such as at least 6tph off-peak on the Greenwich line and 8tph at Abbey Wood, Woolwich Arsenal and Charlton. Yet it drops in the evening and only 2tph all day on Sunday. Even if TfL had have taken over, I suspect it'd be evenings and weekends where they could've make improvements. I agree with you that it is mind boggling to think that Govia control Southern, South Eastern and London Midland. South Eastern stands out as the most miserly and undynamic of the three companies. London Midland is pretty astute with its marketing and social media and has also done well to grow its market alongside the faster Virgin trains services. Things like the Great Escape promotion do a lot to engender good will. Southern has the benefit of TfL funding to support the operation of better evening and Sunday services which South Eastern does not but the franchises were awarded at different times. TfL have said that there was next to no scope to add peak services - the initial effort would be on improving off peak services where capacity allowed it if they'd taken over South Eastern inner suburban lines. The next stage would have been ensuring all peak trains were full length to maximise capacity per train path. However this isn't going to materialise and South Eastern now have to do the best they can and battle through the London Bridge rebuilding process which won't do them any favours in the short run. They have an opportunity to respond favourably to proposals for their franchise extension - let's see if they do so.
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Oct 6, 2013 17:40:19 GMT
You wouldn't think that Southern and Southeastern have the same parent company considering the contrast in customer service and train services. Some things have improved since GoVia took over the franchise from public hands, such as at least 6tph off-peak on the Greenwich line and 8tph at Abbey Wood, Woolwich Arsenal and Charlton. Yet it drops in the evening and only 2tph all day on Sunday. Even if TfL had have taken over, I suspect it'd be evenings and weekends where they could've make improvements. They have an opportunity to respond favourably to proposals for their franchise extension - let's see if they do so. The one extra train from Victoria to Barnehurst (Dartford from December) is a start. The old franchise I don't think took into consideration the increase in patronage off-peak, which in neighbouring TOC's has increased dramatically. Compare Sydenham with Lower Sydenham on a Sunday afternoon. Sydenham has 12tph, Lower Sydenham 2tph.
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Post by jay38a on Oct 7, 2013 14:58:37 GMT
Having more then two trains per hour in the evening and Sundays would be so helpful, also the length of trains on Sundays is a little small, South Eastern insist on putting 4 car trains on and at certain times they cannot cope with loadings. I am one of these people who said South Eastern should have NEVER been privatised again, it was run a lot better when the SRA (Strategic Rail Authority) ran it, especially at reliability and customer service, they brought it from the worst performing franchise to one of the best.
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Post by marlon101 on Oct 26, 2013 18:02:12 GMT
Well...as a regular Southeastern commuter, I can say that some things they do well. The trains are clean and much more reliable than 10 years ago ( the change to the Networkers since they had new Hitachi equipment fitted has been remarkable) and services do generally turn up when they should do. However... There are not nearly enough trains on Sundays or in the evenings. What would be wrong with extending the Sunday London Bridge-Plumstead service to Dartford? Or introducing a x30 min. Sunday service on the Victoria-Bexleyheath-Dartford line? Or a Sunday service on the Bromley North spur? I hope that some of the Travelwatch recommendations are acted on. I doubt they will be, but I live in hope. The biggest drawback to Southeastern Trains at the moment is a perception that the company couldn't care less about its passengers. It has much to do to revise that perception. I'd disagree. I've been stranded on a 465/0 & 465/1 often enough when it has decided to sit down and when they do they don't budge easy. I'm also told that Hitachi improvements only made marginal improvements to reliability only sticking them slightly ahead of the 465/2s. The compressors and door mechanisms continue to cause significant issues and both of my most recent hold ups on trains have been down to faulty circuit-breakers. I'd hardly call the equipment reliable. Information though continues to be Southeastern's real issue. I don't think the fact that GoVia own the franchise has much to do with it, the management team in charge of the region has been the same for the best part of decades. Charlie Horton has been in the mix stuffing things up since the dawn of time.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2013 6:35:57 GMT
I have been using south eastern now for 7 years.
Totally agree about evening and Sunday services, not only are they infrequent, the are often only 4 carriages.
There needs to be a standard 8 car format every day on the metro services.
They tried to push Kent commuters onto the mega expensive high speed services, and in doing so cut in half the semi fast route Faversham to Victoria,
There has been some improvements, like the 0035 Victoria service stopping at more stations and getting extended from Swanley to Gillingham.
I would like to see a standard x15 service daily Gravesend to Charing cross via Woolwich / Sidcup , running all day up ,to close of business,
Earlier trains on Sunday's for shift workers, which there are many in this region,
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2013 12:54:58 GMT
UPDATE: 11:38 Hayes Kent to London Charing Cross due 12:16 will no longer call at Lower Sydenham, Catford Bridge and Ladywell
UPDATE: 12:40 Ramsgate to London Charing Cross due 14:52 will no longer call at Pluckley, Headcorn, Staplehurst, Marden and Paddock Wood.
UPDATE: 12:26 London Charing Cross to Gravesend due 13:25 will be starting from London Bridge due to a delay on a previous journey.
UPDATE: 12:04 Strood to Tonbridge due 12:58 will be cancelled due to a train fault.
UPDATE: 13:03 Tonbridge to Strood due 13:55 will be cancelled due to a train fault.
..... I could go on..... Nothing special today , no severe weather etc
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Post by marlon101 on Oct 31, 2013 17:19:45 GMT
I have been using south eastern now for 7 years. Totally agree about evening and Sunday services, not only are they infrequent, the are often only 4 carriages. There needs to be a standard 8 car format every day on the metro services. They tried to push Kent commuters onto the mega expensive high speed services, and in doing so cut in half the semi fast route Faversham to Victoria, There has been some improvements, like the 0035 Victoria service stopping at more stations and getting extended from Swanley to Gillingham. I would like to see a standard x15 service daily Gravesend to Charing cross via Woolwich / Sidcup , running all day up ,to close of business, Earlier trains on Sunday's for shift workers, which there are many in this region, We would likely have those Sunday services if Boris was given control over the Metro services. Shame on KCC for blocking that one!
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Oct 31, 2013 18:15:34 GMT
I have been using south eastern now for 7 years. Totally agree about evening and Sunday services, not only are they infrequent, the are often only 4 carriages. There needs to be a standard 8 car format every day on the metro services. They tried to push Kent commuters onto the mega expensive high speed services, and in doing so cut in half the semi fast route Faversham to Victoria, There has been some improvements, like the 0035 Victoria service stopping at more stations and getting extended from Swanley to Gillingham. I would like to see a standard x15 service daily Gravesend to Charing cross via Woolwich / Sidcup , running all day up ,to close of business, Earlier trains on Sunday's for shift workers, which there are many in this region, Worst is the service at Crofton Park/Catford/Bellingham, three of a handful of stations in Zone 3 to get 2tph each way. To be fair, Catford is next door to Catford Bridge which has 4tph (alas uneven between services) and Crofton Park is close to Brockley and Honor Oak Park with 12tph, although that line should have 4tph at least.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2013 9:13:36 GMT
I would like to see the Bakerloo line extension take over the Hayes branch.
I would also like to see the DLR taking over the Bromley North spur.
Some Bakerloo line trains could then run into Beckenham Junction via the track after New Beckenham.
I would also like to see a high speed service from Ashford International to Victoria stopping at Swanley & Bromley South , peak hours only , using the disused link to the HS1 line at Fawkham Junction.
A standard 4 tph on each of the Bexleyheath / Sidcup / woolwich lines from Dartford / Gravesend / Gillingham , with the loop services increasing these services to 6-8 tph and extra 2 tph starting from Sidcup and Plumstead.
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Post by vjaska on Nov 1, 2013 19:16:23 GMT
I would like to see the Bakerloo line extension take over the Hayes branch. I would also like to see the DLR taking over the Bromley North spur. Some Bakerloo line trains could then run into Beckenham Junction via the track after New Beckenham. I would also like to see a high speed service from Ashford International to Victoria stopping at Swanley & Bromley South , peak hours only , using the disused link to the HS1 line at Fawkham Junction. A standard 4 tph on each of the Bexleyheath / Sidcup / woolwich lines from Dartford / Gravesend / Gillingham , with the loop services increasing these services to 6-8 tph and extra 2 tph starting from Sidcup and Plumstead. Connecting the Bakerloo line to the Hayes branch is expensive but considering that South East London has very little of the tube network, it should assist the bus network greatly.
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