The peril's of our hobby

[westhamgeezer]

I was reading about Roehampton being a "scary" place, and it got me thinking: What bad experiences have people had whilst photographing/ observing buses? To kick things off, I got threatened with being stabbed it East Acton whilst photographing the last RM's on the 7 (luckily I managed to escape to workmen who were nearby after being chased on a bike). I have been stopped and searched by the police who didnt believe that I was actually interested in buses despite me showing them the images on my camera (a very nice abellio driver stopped and stuck up for me!) I have had numerous drivers give me a 1 or 2 fingered salute and one driver put a newspaper over her face to stop being photographed whilst driving! I have also had a bit of trouble in Wood Green and Camberwell

Also, it would be good to hear not just negative, but any funny/ heartwarming/ acts of generosity stories that you may have. Whilst photographing outside Brixton Garage, one of the drivers came over to me and took me down to the tram shed to look around (getting in a lot of trouble from his superior!)

[snoggle]

Let's see

- D*ickhead symbol from Arriva North East driver at Middlesbrough
- Harranged by First London driver at Ealing Broadway for breaching his human rights. Complained to Leon Daniels about that one.
- Sworn and shouted at by East London driver in Ilford. Complained to the East London MD about that - got me a visit to West Ham Garage.
- Umpteen drivers flashing headlines to try to throw the camera off its settings.
- A driver in Slough drive their bus directly at me but only just turning at the last minute.
- Told I couldn't photograph a street scene in Wood Green by a PCSO possessed of negative levels of intelligence.
- Told I couldn't photograph in Victoria by a PCSO who wouldn't accept or recognise a TfL Staff Pass as being a valid authority for being on TfL property. I had to threaten him with referral to my Managing Director to confirm my identity.
- Being told by a PCSO (can you spot a trend yet?) in Mile End that I was a terrorist on a reconnaisance mission.
- Being told by a WPC in Southgate that I was casing a bank for a robbery because I had a camera in my hand. Is it me or are the Police thick or willfully stupid?
- A bus driver in Slough (spotting another pattern?) holding a plasticated time card over his face as he drove his bus across a junction.
- A Go North East bus driver in Newcastle waving his arms for me "to get out of the way" despite the fact that I was on a traffic island and well away from his bus or its mirrors.
- Being told I was a budding terrorist on a reconnaisance mission by George the Bus Station Controller at Hammersmith Low Level. He also refused to accept a Staff Pass as a valid authority and believed his legal jurisdiction extending to the public highway outside the bus station. That one got referred internally as a complaint.

As you can see I have met my fair share of people who don't listen, don't know the law of the land and who are lacking in the brains department. That so many of them are in a position of authority or responsibility for other people is rather disturbing.

[vjaska]

I've never been stopped by the police though I did get some dodgy looks from two officers at Bexleyheath Clock Tower back around 2008. Majority of my experiences are positive as I've never had any trouble really.

I did have a Travel London driver stick two fingers up at me and a friend near Liverpool Street - that's the only negative experience I can think of TBH.

I had a nice NIBS driver let me on his Scania N113DRB to take some interior shots at Southend.

I left my camera on a Metroline TP and had to chase it down fearing someone may have taken it. I caught up with it and asked the driver and he had ready to return it to me.

[DT 11]

Jun 21, 2014 23:33:07 GMT westhamgeezer said:

I was reading about Roehampton being a "scary" place, and it got me thinking: What bad experiences have people had whilst photographing/ observing buses? To kick things off, I got threatened with being stabbed it East Acton whilst photographing the last RM's on the 7 (luckily I managed to escape to workmen who were nearby after being chased on a bike). I have been stopped and searched by the police who didnt believe that I was actually interested in buses despite me showing them the images on my camera (a very nice abellio driver stopped and stuck up for me!) I have had numerous drivers give me a 1 or 2 fingered salute and one driver put a newspaper over her face to stop being photographed whilst driving! I have also had a bit of trouble in Wood Green and Camberwell

Also, it would be good to hear not just negative, but any funny/ heartwarming/ acts of generosity stories that you may have. Whilst photographing outside Brixton Garage, one of the drivers came over to me and took me down to the tram shed to look around (getting in a lot of trouble from his superior!)

Threat to be stabbed in East Acton for taking a photo. So the idiot who sent the threat rather spend life in a Cell over 1 photo. What a total idiot...

I've been stopped for taking photos in Catford & Surrey Quays, Just told them what I was doing and they continued with their duties. "Just said never judge a book by the cover, you never know what you might discover" - Source: Routemasters

[sid]

Jun 21, 2014 23:33:07 GMT westhamgeezer said:

I was reading about Roehampton being a "scary" place, and it got me thinking: What bad experiences have people had whilst photographing/ observing buses? To kick things off, I got threatened with being stabbed it East Acton whilst photographing the last RM's on the 7 (luckily I managed to escape to workmen who were nearby after being chased on a bike). I have been stopped and searched by the police who didnt believe that I was actually interested in buses despite me showing them the images on my camera (a very nice abellio driver stopped and stuck up for me!) I have had numerous drivers give me a 1 or 2 fingered salute and one driver put a newspaper over her face to stop being photographed whilst driving! I have also had a bit of trouble in Wood Green and Camberwell

Also, it would be good to hear not just negative, but any funny/ heartwarming/ acts of generosity stories that you may have. Whilst photographing outside Brixton Garage, one of the drivers came over to me and took me down to the tram shed to look around (getting in a lot of trouble from his superior!)

Maybe I've just been lucky but I've never had any bad experiences and in all honesty I wouldn't consider Roehampton to be a particularly scary place.

[Deleted]

Just to clarify this, I taken quotes from the two police websites which gives you a right to photo in a public place.

We encourage officers and the public to be vigilant against terrorism but recognise the importance not only of protecting the public from terrorism but also promoting the freedom of the public and the media to take and publish photographs.

Guidance around the issue has been made clear to officers and PCSOs through briefings and internal communications. The following advice is available to all officers and provides a summary of the Metropolitan Police Service’s guidance around photography in public places.

Freedom to photograph and film
Members of the public and the media do not need a permit to film or photograph in public places and police have no power to stop them filming or photographing incidents or police personnel.

Officers do not have the power to delete digital images or destroy film at any point during a search. Deletion or destruction may only take place following seizure if there is a lawful power (such as a court order) that permits such deletion or destruction.

content.met.police.uk/Site/photographyadvice

For those that do Railway photography

Before you enter the platform
Please speak to a member of station staff when you arrive so they are aware of your presence and what you are doing.

Please be aware of your surroundings. We kindly ask you to take note of any unusual behaviour and activities and report anything suspicious to police or a member of staff.

Photography
You can take photographs at stations for personal use.

For any commercial photography, you must seek prior permission from the appropriate train operator or from Network Rail at their 17 major stations.

If you use a tripod, please ensure it doesn't obstruction other passengers, keep it away from platform edges and behind the yellow line.

You're not allowed to use flash photography on platforms as it is a potential safety hazard. We also ask that you do not take photographs of security related equipment such as CCTV cameras.

www.btp.police.uk/advice_and_info/travelling_safely/rail_enthusiasts.aspx


If you want to print it out and hold it with you just incase if you get encountered by jobsworth cops or staff then you have the evidence to counter the argument.
So spread the word. Photography is not a crime!

[VPL630]

Jun 23, 2014 10:19:18 GMT @freebbc said:

Just to clarify this, I taken quotes from the two police websites which gives you a right to photo in a public place.

We encourage officers and the public to be vigilant against terrorism but recognise the importance not only of protecting the public from terrorism but also promoting the freedom of the public and the media to take and publish photographs.

Guidance around the issue has been made clear to officers and PCSOs through briefings and internal communications. The following advice is available to all officers and provides a summary of the Metropolitan Police Service’s guidance around photography in public places.

Freedom to photograph and film
Members of the public and the media do not need a permit to film or photograph in public places and police have no power to stop them filming or photographing incidents or police personnel.

Officers do not have the power to delete digital images or destroy film at any point during a search. Deletion or destruction may only take place following seizure if there is a lawful power (such as a court order) that permits such deletion or destruction.

content.met.police.uk/Site/photographyadvice

For those that do Railway photography

Before you enter the platform
Please speak to a member of station staff when you arrive so they are aware of your presence and what you are doing.

Please be aware of your surroundings. We kindly ask you to take note of any unusual behaviour and activities and report anything suspicious to police or a member of staff.

Photography
You can take photographs at stations for personal use.

For any commercial photography, you must seek prior permission from the appropriate train operator or from Network Rail at their 17 major stations.

If you use a tripod, please ensure it doesn't obstruction other passengers, keep it away from platform edges and behind the yellow line.

You're not allowed to use flash photography on platforms as it is a potential safety hazard. We also ask that you do not take photographs of security related equipment such as CCTV cameras.

www.btp.police.uk/advice_and_info/travelling_safely/rail_enthusiasts.aspx


If you want to print it out and hold it with you just incase if you get encountered by jobsworth cops or staff then you have the evidence to counter the argument.
So spread the word. Photography is not a crime!

I'm not saying your wrong and thanks for all the information but no matter how much proof you have on you, some people will never believe you

[Deleted]

Jun 23, 2014 10:35:22 GMT VPL630 said:

I'm not saying your wrong and thanks for all the information but no matter how much proof you have on you, some people will never believe you
[/quote]
Thanks

I been advising photographers that had the same situation of police/staff harassment to print out the two webpages from official police websites.

Over in the United States where theres different rules apply, I show you one video where a railfan gets harassed by the members of staff, so he stopped filming and showed the statement to the staff and then they leave him alone because of the statement. That's how the situation ends with the staff backing down.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJKOx5F7trU

I understand not everyone want to be filmed or have their photos taken in public, one example in Japan if you upload a video without censoring peoples faces then you get loads of dislikes because it's different society and respect in Japan.

But now we have social media like Instagram...etc many people take selfies in public places with their smartphones, I see no fuss about it because its down to them to do what they want with it.

[ServerKing]

Most phones boast photograph capabilities in excess of 5MP (megapixels), so there's no need to get the cops' (or their plastic police equivalent) attention with a great big f-off SLR camera As @freebbc said, in this age of Instagram, you can pretty much ignore police or anyone else who is in your face about taking pictures. (don't goad them, but in the event of arrest, they are wasting their time... these people are bored)

You just have to disable the flash... and as far as I am aware, terrorists don't do 'surveys' with cameras... one fat TfL official in Tottenham Hale station accused me of being a terrorist and called the BTP and the Met to have me removed from the station - and I was only there to fix their d*mn ticket machine... I even got accused by one officer of making my Network Rail ID pass on a PS3... these must be the people security jobs at supermarkets reject...

[snoggle]

Jun 23, 2014 19:09:26 GMT ServerKing said:

Most phones boast photograph capabilities in excess of 5MP (megapixels), so there's no need to get the cops' (or their plastic police equivalent) attention with a great big f-off SLR camera As @freebbc said, in this age of Instagram, you can pretty much ignore police or anyone else who is in your face about taking pictures. (don't goad them, but in the event of arrest, they are wasting their time... these people are bored)

You just have to disable the flash... and as far as I am aware, terrorists don't do 'surveys' with cameras... one fat TfL official in Tottenham Hale station accused me of being a terrorist and called the BTP and the Met to have me removed from the station - and I was only there to fix their d*mn ticket machine... I even got accused by one officer of making my Network Rail ID pass on a PS3... these must be the people security jobs at supermarkets reject...

Oh dear - your T Hale "experience" beats the stupidity I've encountered hands down.

On your camera point then I'm afraid I'm in the luddite camp. I find it very hard to use a smartphone to take photos and I dislike cameras where you don't have a viewfinder. Trying to take shots with tiny cameras held aloft using a rear screen is not my "cup of tea" - I like to have a viewfinder and a chunky camera is easier for me as I have big hands and fingers. Miniaturised technology isn't compatible with big mits.

[ServerKing]

Jun 23, 2014 19:17:19 GMT snoggle said:

Jun 23, 2014 19:09:26 GMT ServerKing said:

Most phones boast photograph capabilities in excess of 5MP (megapixels), so there's no need to get the cops' (or their plastic police equivalent) attention with a great big f-off SLR camera As @freebbc said, in this age of Instagram, you can pretty much ignore police or anyone else who is in your face about taking pictures. (don't goad them, but in the event of arrest, they are wasting their time... these people are bored)

You just have to disable the flash... and as far as I am aware, terrorists don't do 'surveys' with cameras... one fat TfL official in Tottenham Hale station accused me of being a terrorist and called the BTP and the Met to have me removed from the station - and I was only there to fix their d*mn ticket machine... I even got accused by one officer of making my Network Rail ID pass on a PS3... these must be the people security jobs at supermarkets reject...

Oh dear - your T Hale "experience" beats the stupidity I've encountered hands down.

On your camera point then I'm afraid I'm in the luddite camp. I find it very hard to use a smartphone to take photos and I dislike cameras where you don't have a viewfinder. Trying to take shots with tiny cameras held aloft using a rear screen is not my "cup of tea" - I like to have a viewfinder and a chunky camera is easier for me as I have big hands and fingers. Miniaturised technology isn't compatible with big mits.

snoggle I agree with you there, I struggle to make txt messages even on the colossal Galaxy S4, and my fingers are more like secretaries' ones... SLR's are fantastic, I would prefer them... one way to confuse these retards might be to learn a smattering of French / Italian / German or another language and just start yelling at them in it, and they'll take you for a misguided tourist and back off (though the more hardcore of these so-called police may call their Language Line on their phone and a translator can tell you in Italian why you've been arrested )

Our fat friend in Tottenham Hale works in the fish-bowl - he's everything I despise about public transport and spoilt public sector workers That was probably the most exercise that fat thingy had in a lifetime... The guy tore my coat (but it was only an ASDA one, so it didn't matter) in the process of a scuffle that ensued, after stealing my rucksack with my company laptop and tools in and putting it in the 'fish-bowl' with him and taunting that he had my bag. He then had his goons surround me and make me stand in a corner until the BTP arrived, and then Tottenham's finest arrived. A lot of passengers were alarmed by what happened - I was a bit worried myself as a fellow West Indian had met his Maker a few metres from where I was at the hand of the Met Police... so I agreed to leave the station, and a colleague had to finish the call. I got my bag back with everything in, but not the nicest of experiences. And that was no omnibology involved...

I have since been back to repair the ticket machines and Fatso hasn't been around, but since the station re-modelling, and moving to the more civilised climes of West London, I've not been back since February

[snoggle]

Jun 23, 2014 19:49:13 GMT ServerKing said:

Jun 23, 2014 19:17:19 GMT snoggle said:

Oh dear - your T Hale "experience" beats the stupidity I've encountered hands down.

On your camera point then I'm afraid I'm in the luddite camp. I find it very hard to use a smartphone to take photos and I dislike cameras where you don't have a viewfinder. Trying to take shots with tiny cameras held aloft using a rear screen is not my "cup of tea" - I like to have a viewfinder and a chunky camera is easier for me as I have big hands and fingers. Miniaturised technology isn't compatible with big mits.

snoggle I agree with you there, I struggle to make txt messages even on the colossal Galaxy S4, and my fingers are more like secretaries' ones... SLR's are fantastic, I would prefer them... one way to confuse these retards might be to learn a smattering of French / Italian / German or another language and just start yelling at them in it, and they'll take you for a misguided tourist and back off (though the more hardcore of these so-called police may call their Language Line on their phone and a translator can tell you in Italian why you've been arrested )

Our fat friend in Tottenham Hale works in the fish-bowl - he's everything I despise about public transport and spoilt public sector workers That was probably the most exercise that fat thingy had in a lifetime... The guy tore my coat (but it was only an ASDA one, so it didn't matter) in the process of a scuffle that ensued, after stealing my rucksack with my company laptop and tools in and putting it in the 'fish-bowl' with him and taunting that he had my bag. He then had his goons surround me and make me stand in a corner until the BTP arrived, and then Tottenham's finest arrived. A lot of passengers were alarmed by what happened - I was a bit worried myself as a fellow West Indian had met his Maker a few metres from where I was at the hand of the Met Police... so I agreed to leave the station, and a colleague had to finish the call. I got my bag back with everything in, but not the nicest of experiences. And that was no omnibology involved...

I have since been back to repair the ticket machines and Fatso hasn't been around, but since the station re-modelling, and moving to the more civilised climes of West London, I've not been back since February

As a fat former public sector employee I'll try hard not to be offended. I have not worked at Tottenham Hale though so it wasn't me. If it had been me I am afraid I would have asked my employer to complain directly to London Underground. If they refused then I would have taken it up personally with London Underground. Your treatment was disgraceful based on your description. I don't know who you work for but if it is CTS then the supervisor should simply have checked with their Help Desk. If you look after the Abellio machines then a quick chat between LU person and the NR supervisor at T Hale could have resolved things in minutes. Calling the Police is a ludicrous over-reaction - I'd have to seriously question the bloke's motivation / competence (again based on your account of events).

[ServerKing]

Jun 23, 2014 20:09:44 GMT snoggle said:

Jun 23, 2014 19:49:13 GMT ServerKing said:

snoggle I agree with you there, I struggle to make txt messages even on the colossal Galaxy S4, and my fingers are more like secretaries' ones... SLR's are fantastic, I would prefer them... one way to confuse these retards might be to learn a smattering of French / Italian / German or another language and just start yelling at them in it, and they'll take you for a misguided tourist and back off (though the more hardcore of these so-called police may call their Language Line on their phone and a translator can tell you in Italian why you've been arrested )

Our fat friend in Tottenham Hale works in the fish-bowl - he's everything I despise about public transport and spoilt public sector workers That was probably the most exercise that fat thingy had in a lifetime... The guy tore my coat (but it was only an ASDA one, so it didn't matter) in the process of a scuffle that ensued, after stealing my rucksack with my company laptop and tools in and putting it in the 'fish-bowl' with him and taunting that he had my bag. He then had his goons surround me and make me stand in a corner until the BTP arrived, and then Tottenham's finest arrived. A lot of passengers were alarmed by what happened - I was a bit worried myself as a fellow West Indian had met his Maker a few metres from where I was at the hand of the Met Police... so I agreed to leave the station, and a colleague had to finish the call. I got my bag back with everything in, but not the nicest of experiences. And that was no omnibology involved...

I have since been back to repair the ticket machines and Fatso hasn't been around, but since the station re-modelling, and moving to the more civilised climes of West London, I've not been back since February

As a fat former public sector employee I'll try hard not to be offended. I have not worked at Tottenham Hale though so it wasn't me. If it had been me I am afraid I would have asked my employer to complain directly to London Underground. If they refused then I would have taken it up personally with London Underground. Your treatment was disgraceful based on your description. I don't know who you work for but if it is CTS then the supervisor should simply have checked with their Help Desk. If you look after the Abellio machines then a quick chat between LU person and the NR supervisor at T Hale could have resolved things in minutes. Calling the Police is a ludicrous over-reaction - I'd have to seriously question the bloke's motivation / competence (again based on your account of events).

Having worked in the public sector at the MoJ I can say my remarks tongue in cheek... As for the size-ism, it was the only way to describe this rather nondescript - but aggressive - individual. I used to work in the TfL IMAC Team at Victoria Station House, so I know how most of the staff are - and the majority do a good job. I think this was one of the DSM's (supervisor / station managers), but it is a funny setup as Abellio Greater Anglia don't own Tottenham Hale, but rent a portion of desk from TfL. I had to sign in at TfL first then go to sign at at AGA, but no one had the grace to explain that to me on the first visit. My manager, who had aggro from this chap himself around 10 years ago, wanted to press charges (perhaps as revenge ) but I know how faceless corporations and public bodies and their legal teams can tread on Joe Public and so I didn't persue the matter... But I think it's to do with the area, Tottenham has lots of unresolved social problems, and it's just a matter of time before something else kicks off...

I think CTS (Carlisle) do mostly cleaning, don't do that. I subcontract for another IT firm, and we look after the ticket machines on the desk rather than the S&B ticket machines. Regardless of who I work for, it was not the manner in which to deal with any member of public.

I don't know if he was covering for someone there as I've not seen him since, they do move around a bit between there and the last few stops on the Victoria Line before Walthamstow Central.

For those of you that pursue this hobby, I take my hat off to you, especially Jack, who has provided most of my photoshopped pictures this year (only playin')