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Post by M1104 on Jul 5, 2014 10:29:18 GMT
Believe London Central did something similar alongside the 12 and/or 36 routing.
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Post by rambo on Jul 5, 2014 21:22:41 GMT
I reckon it will happen.
This is what will happen;
Companies will ask for volenteers and offer double pay. There will be loads of drivers who will do it.
Then, all new drivers will have it in their contract that they HAVE to work xmas day, and then the slippery slope starts..............
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Post by snoggle on Jul 5, 2014 21:33:59 GMT
I reckon it will happen. This is what will happen; Companies will ask for volenteers and offer double pay. There will be loads of drivers who will do it. Then, all new drivers will have it in their contract that they HAVE to work xmas day, and then the slippery slope starts.............. I reckon it won't because TfL simply do not have the budget to cover the costs. Depots are closed so there will be a substantial marginal cost levied by the operators to provide staff cover (drivers, managers, engineers, I-Bus) for that *plus* there will be an argument that some level of TfL oversight will also be needed (Centrecomm, controllers etc) incurring more cost. Based on what's been said on another group the whole issue was triggered by one TfL Board Member who reckons the time has come for a Christmas Day service. However I just cannot see TfL being able to construct a scenario that is affordable and which is not seen as unduly discriminatory to some parts of London. Do you run the 498 or the W12 or the 162 or the 29 or the S3 or the H11? There are so many journey possibilities and possible demand that I can't see TfL being able to fund a reasonably "inclusive" service that doesn't "p" off councillors, disabled campaigners, passenger groups, the hospitality industry and religious groups never mind the bus workers who don't want to be forced to work. I actually think it is too hard to fix unless you have a vast pot of money to run quite a lot of service and pay a very good deal to those who would be needed to run the service. |
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Post by moz on Jul 5, 2014 22:35:39 GMT
I reckon it will happen. This is what will happen; Companies will ask for volenteers and offer double pay. There will be loads of drivers who will do it. Then, all new drivers will have it in their contract that they HAVE to work xmas day, and then the slippery slope starts.............. Fully agree...and people questioned why I jacked the job in! Moz |
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Post by ajw on Jul 6, 2014 1:19:12 GMT
I reckon it will happen. This is what will happen; Companies will ask for volenteers and offer double pay. There will be loads of drivers who will do it. Then, all new drivers will have it in their contract that they HAVE to work xmas day, and then the slippery slope starts.............. When I was driving buses in Canberra this was a total non issue. There were always plenty of volunteers (pay was triple might I add) and it was never expected people would work, and I believe even to this day no one is forced to work. So no slipperly slope. The same issue applies with Good Friday too, though obviously in the UK Easter Sunday is the more 'religious' day. Besides I always ask this question in the yearly debates on this issue, what makes a bus driver so special? Plenty of people do have to work on Christmas day providing services to the public, so what is different about public transport in the UK? Should I also add especially in London where many do not have private transport. |
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Post by ajw on Jul 6, 2014 1:21:29 GMT
I reckon it won't because TfL simply do not have the budget to cover the costs. Depots are closed so there will be a substantial marginal cost levied by the operators to provide staff cover (drivers, managers, engineers, I-Bus) for that *plus* there will be an argument that some level of TfL oversight will also be needed (Centrecomm, controllers etc) incurring more cost. I wonder what the cost of closing depots is? Considering many don't ever close (except Christmas Day) and many don't have sufficient parking space to park all their buses there must surely be a cost involved in co-ordinating, moving buses, security and restarting again. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2014 1:45:13 GMT
I know LU drivers get a £350 bonus for working on boxing day, double pay doesn't seem enough for bus drivers. A bonus payment for drivers is in order if it was to happen, but the coats just doesn't make it seem worth it just to run some kind of service.
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Post by ajw on Jul 6, 2014 5:01:48 GMT
I know LU drivers get a £350 bonus for working on boxing day, double pay doesn't seem enough for bus drivers. A bonus payment for drivers is in order if it was to happen, but the coats just doesn't make it seem worth it just to run some kind of service. You could also argue that the £600m cost per annum (or £1.6m a day) that the taxpayer subsidises TfL buses doesn't seem to make it worth it either. Of course it is worth it, because it is an essential public service in a city like London. One extra day where demand MAY be lower and costs higher should not matter one iota when your role is to provide a public service. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2014 5:59:49 GMT
I really hope its given a chance from this year. There must be some garages that cant have all their allocated buses under one roof at the same time.
Keep it simple, run a reduced Boxing day service , high frequency routes to run every 15 mins , low frequency routes as per normal Boxing Day , between 0800-2200 , Heathrow routes excepted.
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Post by snoggle on Jul 6, 2014 7:53:46 GMT
I reckon it won't because TfL simply do not have the budget to cover the costs. Depots are closed so there will be a substantial marginal cost levied by the operators to provide staff cover (drivers, managers, engineers, I-Bus) for that *plus* there will be an argument that some level of TfL oversight will also be needed (Centrecomm, controllers etc) incurring more cost. I wonder what the cost of closing depots is? Considering many don't ever close (except Christmas Day) and many don't have sufficient parking space to park all their buses there must surely be a cost involved in co-ordinating, moving buses, security and restarting again. I didn't say all the claimed cost would be genuine. I just said the operators would argue that they face substantial costs to open on that day - i.e. a negotiating stance. I think everyone who's commented so far accepts that a premium would need to be paid to incentivise people to work on a principal holiday. That premium would apply to all the staff involved so there would be *some* extra cost. I am sure TfL would argue the opposite as you've done that you could argue there were some savings. Needless to say there would probably be a big negotiating process *unless* TfL have been clever over the years and have asked operators to provide a price for a level of Christmas Day service as an contract option in their bids for routes. I've no idea whether TfL have done this. |
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Post by ajw on Jul 6, 2014 9:10:23 GMT
Not saying there would be savings, just saying the savings on the cost of shutting down would offset some of the costs of running a service. How much, who knows, but frankly the cost in the grand scheme of the whole TfL bus budget would be very minimal indeed.
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Post by londonbusboy on Jul 6, 2014 9:36:43 GMT
I really hope its given a chance from this year. There must be some garages that cant have all their allocated buses under one roof at the same time. Keep it simple, run a reduced Boxing day service , high frequency routes to run every 15 mins , low frequency routes as per normal Boxing Day , between 0800-2200 , Heathrow routes excepted. Id run the high frequency routes at 30-40mins! and low frequency hourly. |
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Post by snoggle on Jul 6, 2014 9:47:35 GMT
I reckon it will happen. This is what will happen; Companies will ask for volenteers and offer double pay. There will be loads of drivers who will do it. Then, all new drivers will have it in their contract that they HAVE to work xmas day, and then the slippery slope starts............. Fully agree...and people questioned why I jacked the job in! Moz Oh! - so no more driving 133s then? |
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Post by moz on Jul 6, 2014 11:38:16 GMT
Fully agree...and people questioned why I jacked the job in! Moz Oh! - so no more driving 133s then? Nope. Had enough of the whole thing. Moz |
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Post by snoggle on Oct 23, 2014 20:30:44 GMT
Well it is now October and I am glad I didn't hold my breath.
From the MD's report for next week's Surface Transport panel meeting.
Next update paper due 11 February 2015.
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