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Post by snoggle on Jul 21, 2014 8:54:57 GMT
The Mayor has announced that Stratford, Stratford High St and Stratford International stations will be rezoned to be zone 2/3 boundary stations with effect from January 2016. This is to support regeneration efforts in the area.
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Post by snowman on Jul 21, 2014 10:20:36 GMT
The Mayor has announced that Stratford, Stratford High St and Stratford International stations will be rezoned to be zone 2/3 boundary stations with effect from January 2016. This is to support regeneration efforts in the area. I might be naïve, but how does changing a transport zone regenerate an area, builders already build there, presumably if fares go down, they increase the prices of the apartments, they get more profit, so is the theory everyone will flock to these even more expensive apartments so richer people live there instead. I always thought regeneration was replacing obsolete buildings and wasteland.
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Post by Nathan on Jul 21, 2014 10:28:14 GMT
The Mayor has announced that Stratford, Stratford High St and Stratford International stations will be rezoned to be zone 2/3 boundary stations with effect from January 2016. This is to support regeneration efforts in the area. I might be naïve, but how does changing a transport zone regenerate an area, builders already build there, presumably if fares go down, they increase the prices of the apartments, they get more profit, so is the theory everyone will flock to these even more expensive apartments so richer people live there instead. I always thought regeneration was replacing obsolete buildings and wasteland. Well...they ARE replacing buildings and wasteland. And what you just said proves how it will make Stratford a more upmarket area. But given the surrounding areas of Stratford...well, I don't know lol.
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Post by snoggle on Jul 21, 2014 10:42:40 GMT
The Mayor has announced that Stratford, Stratford High St and Stratford International stations will be rezoned to be zone 2/3 boundary stations with effect from January 2016. This is to support regeneration efforts in the area. I might be naïve, but how does changing a transport zone regenerate an area, builders already build there, presumably if fares go down, they increase the prices of the apartments, they get more profit, so is the theory everyone will flock to these even more expensive apartments so richer people live there instead. I always thought regeneration was replacing obsolete buildings and wasteland. It is all about perception. Remember that it is not Londoners who will snap up these new properties. They are people in China, India, Malaysia who have no idea what these areas are like but see transport developments like Crossrail and London Overground and know that property values will increase. Saying something is in Zone 2 gives it the same "cache" as Kensington or Fulham as they're in the same zone. Now you know and I know that that is a load of rubbish but we have a property market driven by irrational outside sources rather than planned development to serve people who want affordable viable housing in decent neighbourhoods.
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Post by vjaska on Jul 21, 2014 13:33:38 GMT
Regenerating an area doesn't just include building new buildings and updating existing ones - I'd argue that people's behaviour in an area links in more to regeneration than anything else.
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Post by twobellstogo on Jul 22, 2014 11:12:26 GMT
If we are to rezone Stratford, then surely West Ham, Canning Town and the parallel DLR line will have to be rezoned too - seems illogical to me to leave these stations in zone 3 only?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2014 11:22:20 GMT
If we are to rezone Stratford, then surely West Ham, Canning Town and the parallel DLR line will have to be rezoned too - seems illogical to me to leave these stations in zone 3 only? Why though? where do you stop? do we then say Plaistow as well?
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Post by snoggle on Jul 22, 2014 13:40:48 GMT
If we are to rezone Stratford, then surely West Ham, Canning Town and the parallel DLR line will have to be rezoned too - seems illogical to me to leave these stations in zone 3 only? They're dumps that millionnaires aren't interested in so the locals can keep paying higher fares - the Mayor didn't say! The problem is that everytime you move a zone boundary so people gain and others lose. What we don't know is what TfL will do to recoup the £7m annual loss. Shove an extra 10p on every fare into or across Zone 1? Cut bus services in outer areas? Not expand London Overground services? I am actually slightly surprised this change has happened if only because it will tempt other places to demand zone changes and reinvigorate old campaigns for places like Surbiton. The big difference is that come 2016 TfL will be largely in charge of most rail services at Stratford as it will have taken over the Shenfield local trains. Therefore there is next to no compensation to be paid to Abellio Greater Anglia. Moving any other boundary that reduced revenue would result in the relevant TOC putting out a very big begging bowl shouting "compensation, compensation, give us tens of millions of pounds to cover our losses". That's the bit the politicians conveniently forget. The only time to move boundaries is part of a refranchising process so that the revenue impact and any costs to make the change are factored into competitive bids or if TfL ever takes over more suburban services in London.
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Post by John tuthill on Jul 23, 2014 10:13:37 GMT
If we are to rezone Stratford, then surely West Ham, Canning Town and the parallel DLR line will have to be rezoned too - seems illogical to me to leave these stations in zone 3 only? They're dumps that millionnaires aren't interested in so the locals can keep paying higher fares - the Mayor didn't say! The problem is that everytime you move a zone boundary so people gain and others lose. What we don't know is what TfL will do to recoup the £7m annual loss. Shove an extra 10p on every fare into or across Zone 1? Cut bus services in outer areas? Not expand London Overground services? I am actually slightly surprised this change has happened if only because it will tempt other places to demand zone changes and reinvigorate old campaigns for places like Surbiton. The big difference is that come 2016 TfL will be largely in charge of most rail services at Stratford as it will have taken over the Shenfield local trains. Therefore there is next to no compensation to be paid to Abellio Greater Anglia. Moving any other boundary that reduced revenue would result in the relevant TOC putting out a very big begging bowl shouting "compensation, compensation, give us tens of millions of pounds to cover our losses". That's the bit the politicians conveniently forget. The only time to move boundaries is part of a refranchising process so that the revenue impact and any costs to make the change are factored into competitive bids or if TfL ever takes over more suburban services in London. Surbiton is in Zone 6. The liberal MP we've been inflicted with (AKA 'Green King' as we call him) wants Thames Ditton & Hampton Court to be rezoned as Z6. Trains from HC are 'all stations,' so the locals change at Surbiton for a thru' train to Waterloo. Would be interested to know what the cost implications are if TD & HC are added to Z6
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Post by jay38a on Jul 23, 2014 10:29:22 GMT
They're dumps that millionnaires aren't interested in so the locals can keep paying higher fares - the Mayor didn't say! The problem is that everytime you move a zone boundary so people gain and others lose. What we don't know is what TfL will do to recoup the £7m annual loss. Shove an extra 10p on every fare into or across Zone 1? Cut bus services in outer areas? Not expand London Overground services? I am actually slightly surprised this change has happened if only because it will tempt other places to demand zone changes and reinvigorate old campaigns for places like Surbiton. The big difference is that come 2016 TfL will be largely in charge of most rail services at Stratford as it will have taken over the Shenfield local trains. Therefore there is next to no compensation to be paid to Abellio Greater Anglia. Moving any other boundary that reduced revenue would result in the relevant TOC putting out a very big begging bowl shouting "compensation, compensation, give us tens of millions of pounds to cover our losses". That's the bit the politicians conveniently forget. The only time to move boundaries is part of a refranchising process so that the revenue impact and any costs to make the change are factored into competitive bids or if TfL ever takes over more suburban services in London. Surbiton is in Zone 6. The liberal MP we've been inflicted with (AKA 'Green King' as we call him) wants Thames Ditton & Hampton Court to be rezoned as Z6. Trains from HC are 'all stations,' so the locals change at Surbiton for a thru' train to Waterloo. Would be interested to know what the cost implications are if TD & HC are added to Z6 Thames Ditton and Hampton Court are already Zone 6 www.tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/london-rail-and-tube-services-map.pdf
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Post by John tuthill on Jul 23, 2014 10:38:18 GMT
Surbiton is in Zone 6. The liberal MP we've been inflicted with (AKA 'Green King' as we call him) wants Thames Ditton & Hampton Court to be rezoned as Z6. Trains from HC are 'all stations,' so the locals change at Surbiton for a thru' train to Waterloo. Would be interested to know what the cost implications are if TD & HC are added to Z6 Thames Ditton and Hampton Court are already Zone 6 www.tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/london-rail-and-tube-services-map.pdf When was that? That's the sort of story the 'Surrey Comet' would put on page 1. Thanks for the info
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Post by snoggle on Jul 23, 2014 10:39:14 GMT
Surbiton is in Zone 6. The liberal MP we've been inflicted with (AKA 'Green King' as we call him) wants Thames Ditton & Hampton Court to be rezoned as Z6. Trains from HC are 'all stations,' so the locals change at Surbiton for a thru' train to Waterloo. Would be interested to know what the cost implications are if TD & HC are added to Z6 Almost certainly no impact. HC and TD are, as jay38a has said, already in Zone 6. If rail services are charged on the TfL scale then fares outside Zone 1 are pretty flat especially off peak. That's not quite the case for the National Rail farescale which is more graduated so if Surbiton did move to Zone 5 then fares to HC and TD would increase. The honourable compromise would be to put Surbiton on the Z56 boundary thereby lowering fares into London but not increasing them on the HC line.
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Post by mondraker275 on Jul 23, 2014 16:09:20 GMT
This decision makes sense and I like it. No one loses directly, and it benefits travellers from Zone 1. Ofcourse, the lost money could be recouped by TfL in some evil manner, as mentioned by Snoggle. Just want to add that it is absolute coincidence that TfL plans to move its HQ to Stratford at about the same time...
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Post by snoggle on Jul 23, 2014 18:11:37 GMT
This decision makes sense and I like it. No one loses directly, and it benefits travellers from Zone 1. Ofcourse, the lost money could be recouped by TfL in some evil manner, as mentioned by Snoggle. Just want to add that it is absolute coincidence that TfL plans to move its HQ to Stratford at about the same time... The TfL move isn't really relevant given employees get free travel. For those employees who commute into Central London termini or live to the west then it may be somewhat unattractive given journey times may be much extended. Crossrail will help to reduce journey times when it opens.
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Post by mondraker275 on Jul 24, 2014 13:59:20 GMT
This decision makes sense and I like it. No one loses directly, and it benefits travellers from Zone 1. Ofcourse, the lost money could be recouped by TfL in some evil manner, as mentioned by Snoggle. Just want to add that it is absolute coincidence that TfL plans to move its HQ to Stratford at about the same time... The TfL move isn't really relevant given employees get free travel. For those employees who commute into Central London termini or live to the west then it may be somewhat unattractive given journey times may be much extended. Crossrail will help to reduce journey times when it opens. They were moving to Stratford anyway, so journey times will not increase/decrease because of a zone change. TfL staff do have free travel, but for stakeholders and clients that need to go to TfL the expenses will be higher without the zone change. I am quite sure in their long list of pros and cons for the zone change that included somewhere among the other nonsense reasons was How it could benefit TfL in the way I am suggesting.
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