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Post by southlondonbus on Aug 18, 2014 9:22:41 GMT
I think before the 400 number was used there were short workings on the 409 to Caterham on the hill with it being 4bph to caterham/hill then 2 continuing to Godstone and 1 to EG. In thoses day the green london and country buses used to provide essential london services as that would have been the other main route to old Coulsdon along with the 50.
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Post by vjaska on Aug 18, 2014 9:52:13 GMT
I'm quite surprised the 420 still runs as far as Sutton Bus Garage - I've only done it twice when it had Volvo Olympians but the only section of the route that was reasonably busy was Redhill to Reigate - after that, there were only around 5 people between Reigate & Sutton Station.
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Post by YY13VKP on Aug 18, 2014 9:54:11 GMT
All things said, I think a 409 in it's pre-2001 guise *could* have made it into the TfL network as far as Godstone Green. In those days it ran via Purley Cross and played a major role between Croydon and Caterham over the roads which would come to be served by the 466 (frequencies were 2bph to Godstone, one continuing to EG - it combined with the 400 to give 4bph as far as Caterham-on-the-Hill). But the tramlink route changes in 1999 and the consequent inception of the 466 did for the 409's viability on that corridor - it was quickly reduced to hourly throughout, then a couple of years later was diverted via Selsdon and Chelsham to cover the old Metrobus 483 and various other local links in that part of the world. I took a 409 once for the ride, back when Metrobus ran the full Croydon-EG route with Olympians. It took just under an hour to get from Croydon to Caterham - consider that the 407 and 466 take about 35 minutes, being generous. Caterham through Godstone to East Grinstead took a more direct route, but you could understand why the decision was made to break it up it to reflect the nature of the shorter journeys made along the route - I don't think many would have made the end-to-end journey of two hours. That could work, I found a picture of one of Metrobus's London Omnidekka's (441) on the route back in 2003, and a London based Dart on there too (203) in 2003 running between Godstone Green and Croydon. Ifound these on London Buses Zenfolio. I've seen a few TFL Bus Stops in Redhill with only one TFL route on it (the 405) and the rest operated by Sussex county council.So the 409 could yet have a small chance of becoming a TFL route Or here's a thought. Why don't they divert the 466 into the Village and Extend it to Caterham Station That would actually be quite convenient
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Post by jay38a on Aug 18, 2014 9:57:44 GMT
All things said, I think a 409 in it's pre-2001 guise *could* have made it into the TfL network as far as Godstone Green. In those days it ran via Purley Cross and played a major role between Croydon and Caterham over the roads which would come to be served by the 466 (frequencies were 2bph to Godstone, one continuing to EG - it combined with the 400 to give 4bph as far as Caterham-on-the-Hill). But the tramlink route changes in 1999 and the consequent inception of the 466 did for the 409's viability on that corridor - it was quickly reduced to hourly throughout, then a couple of years later was diverted via Selsdon and Chelsham to cover the old Metrobus 483 and various other local links in that part of the world. I took a 409 once for the ride, back when Metrobus ran the full Croydon-EG route with Olympians. It took just under an hour to get from Croydon to Caterham - consider that the 407 and 466 take about 35 minutes, being generous. Caterham through Godstone to East Grinstead took a more direct route, but you could understand why the decision was made to break it up it to reflect the nature of the shorter journeys made along the route - I don't think many would have made the end-to-end journey of two hours. That could work, I found a picture of one of Metrobus's London Omnidekka's (441) on the route back in 2003, and a London based Dart on there too (203) in 2003 running between Godstone Green and Croydon. Ifound these on London Buses Zenfolio. I've seen a few TFL Bus Stops in Redhill with only one TFL route on it (the 405) and the rest operated by Sussex county council.So the 409 could yet have a small chance of becoming a TFL route That was because Godstone depot ran the 409 which also had TfL routes 246, 405 and 466 and the country routes were added onto the Godstone blindsets. The 409 is a Surrey CC contracted route, so there near enough no way it would ever become a TfL route.
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Post by snoggle on Aug 18, 2014 12:36:41 GMT
When you say Go-Aheads Key will be accepted on TfL network, do you mean the whole of the group or just the Southern Key. I have a staff key from Metrobus and at the moment it is only compatible with other readers in the group for example B&H and the Oxford Bus Company. I also get free travel on Go-Ahead/Govia trains(Southern/Southeastern/London Midland) but for that a paper ticket is issued. Each company in the group has a separate key card, it is likely to be very confusing to try and merge these all in to one. A further problem that springs to mind is the products on the card. If I had a 4 Week Metrobus Metrovoyager, a Tfl one week travelcard as a few single tickets, it will become very confusing. I can see what your saying though- one card for everything. It will start with Southern's Key first. Go Ahead are taking things at a steady pace and slowly building out from what Southern have introduced. You can combine Plusbus tickets for Brighton or Crawley with a Southern season ticket already. Southern only seasons can be read by Oyster readers at some stations in the London area including stations run by FCC but where a season would be interavailable. I think we're a few months away from several tickets working on one Key card but it'll happen. C2C are planning to introduce Travelcard acceptance on their smartcard from 13 October. No sign yet of bus tickets in Essex working on a C2C ITSO card but there's no reason why it shouldn't be feasible. I think cross acceptance of Key cards (or Stagecoach Smart for that matter) in different regional bus companies will happen in time but I suspect it's not there because the bosses think there is no demand for a Brighton Key to work in Oxford (or vice versa). I think they're wrong but so much bus travel is local you can understand why all the focus is on promoting local area tickets not regional or inter company ones. Providing people can check their card at a ticket machine, ticket office or on line I don't think having multiple products on one card is too difficult. I think it is more important that people can check things easily, that they can add or renew products quickly with little lead time between purchase and the product being put on the card and that the card is read quickly by all readers. Oyster teaches that if you put a reliable and fairly simple products on one card and make it work on all transport services in an area then people will use it. Look how many people in London have a card in their pocket - nearly everyone. Achieving the same thing elsewhere is the sort of panacea bus and train companies would love. If Go Ahead get the Key right then they're on the same path to achieving what Oyster has done.
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