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Post by snoggle on Sept 30, 2014 9:55:48 GMT
Bakerloo Line extension consultation now open at Consultation LinkIn essence - E&C to Hayes via Old Kent Rd or Camberwell then Lewisham, Catford, Beckenham Junction / Hayes.
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Post by vjaska on Sept 30, 2014 11:53:21 GMT
Bakerloo Line extension consultation now open at Consultation LinkIn essence - E&C to Hayes via Old Kent Rd or Camberwell then Lewisham, Catford, Beckenham Junction / Hayes. I understand that the Old Kent Road & Camberwell routings are not guaranteed and also understand why the two Old Kent Road stations are not guaranteed but surely, Camberwell Station should be guaranteed?
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Post by M1104 on Sept 30, 2014 13:08:37 GMT
Bakerloo Line extension consultation now open at Consultation LinkIn essence - E&C to Hayes via Old Kent Rd or Camberwell then Lewisham, Catford, Beckenham Junction / Hayes. I understand that the Old Kent Road & Camberwell routings are not guaranteed and also understand why the two Old Kent Road stations are not guaranteed but surely, Camberwell Station should be guaranteed? Especially as incomplete tunnels supposedly still exists between the Elephant and Camberwell Green.
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Post by John tuthill on Sept 30, 2014 13:43:57 GMT
I understand that the Old Kent Road & Camberwell routings are not guaranteed and also understand why the two Old Kent Road stations are not guaranteed but surely, Camberwell Station should be guaranteed? Especially as incomplete tunnels supposedly still exists between the Elephant and Camberwell Green. #It seems I've heard that song before, it' from an old familiar score...........# Maybe this time it will happen!
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Post by vjaska on Sept 30, 2014 14:00:32 GMT
I understand that the Old Kent Road & Camberwell routings are not guaranteed and also understand why the two Old Kent Road stations are not guaranteed but surely, Camberwell Station should be guaranteed? Especially as incomplete tunnels supposedly still exists between the Elephant and Camberwell Green. Indeed, the original proposal was for it to extend to Camberwell with a station at Walworth.
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Post by snowman on Sept 30, 2014 14:08:35 GMT
I understand that the Old Kent Road & Camberwell routings are not guaranteed and also understand why the two Old Kent Road stations are not guaranteed but surely, Camberwell Station should be guaranteed? Especially as incomplete tunnels supposedly still exists between the Elephant and Camberwell Green. I think you are referring to the work that was done under the parliamentary powers obtained to extend the line in 1931 (these have lapsed, but a new one line parliamentary bill, could void the lapse date). Basically the platforms at Elephant and Castle were extended to 377 feet (as were other Bakerloo platforms from their original 291 feet), enough for 7 cars. Then beyond the platform a pair of 515 feet extensions (including a scissors crossover) were driven below Walworth Road towards Camberwell (which could be used as sidings pending line extension). There were many South London boroughs who pushed for extension in 1936 and 1937 but the estimated cost (then £2m) was considered too much and extensions elsewhere provided better value. Obviously any extension could make use of this short extra tunnel.
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Post by Connor on Sept 30, 2014 19:49:01 GMT
I don't see how Hayes would need 16tph; or even Beckenham Junction, extending to Lewisham seems more than enough; the prospect of more trains on the North Kent/Bexleyheath/Sidcup lines (if the extension to Hayes went ahead) is tempting and needed, regardless of the extension. But the whole thing is FIFTEEN years away from happening...
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Post by snoggle on Sept 30, 2014 20:17:03 GMT
I don't see how Hayes would need 16tph; or even Beckenham Junction, extending to Lewisham seems more than enough; the prospect of more trains on the North Kent/Bexleyheath/Sidcup lines (if the extension to Hayes went ahead) is tempting and needed, regardless of the extension. But the whole thing is FIFTEEN years away from happening... 15 years away from anyone putting a spade in the ground. It'd be years after that before anything opened. Looking at the detailed info I think the proposal is 27 tph through Lewisham of which 6 go to Beckenham Junction, 6 terminate short at Catford and 15 tph run to Hayes. I suspect the relatively high tph to Hayes is an attempt to provide a similar capacity to that provided by the NR trains. From all the comment I've read in other places I think the people of Hayes will not want the tube, they'll want their direct trains to the City. My initial view is that running beyond Catford is a waste of time. Create a good interchange there with the two rail lines and bus links and people from miles around can have a high frequency service into the West End and Waterloo by tube or use a train if they want the City. Clearly Lewisham remains a pinch point for national rail services and it won't be easy getting the Bakerloo Line through there because of the big redevelopments that will put big foundations into the ground and around the rivers.
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Post by rmz19 on Sept 30, 2014 23:26:03 GMT
At last!, I was waiting for my local Bakerloo Line to finally get some light with regards to an extension, if it doesn't mean re-extending it back to Watford Junction over the current Overground Line as it previously was, then at least we can hope for this long awaited extension to happen, even if it's still years.
Personally, I prefer via option 1b and then option 2, which is via Camberwell and onto Bromley Town Centre. Either way, I'm in full agreement with the entire proposal.
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Oct 25, 2014 22:02:17 GMT
Rather than extending the Bakerloo Line beyond Lewisham to Hayes, I wonder whether the DLR could be extended from Lewisham to Hayes, replacing National Rail instead?
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Post by twobellstogo on Oct 25, 2014 22:10:07 GMT
Rather than extending the Bakerloo Line beyond Lewisham to Hayes, I wonder whether the DLR could be extended from Lewisham to Hayes, replacing National Rail instead? The terminal arrangement for the DLR at Lewisham would make any southward extension a very tricky proposition.
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Post by snoggle on Oct 25, 2014 23:26:04 GMT
Rather than extending the Bakerloo Line beyond Lewisham to Hayes, I wonder whether the DLR could be extended from Lewisham to Hayes, replacing National Rail instead? TfL have been instructed by the Mayor to stop all work on extending the DLR towards Bromley. This is because there is no viable business case for it. This was officially noted in a recent Bromley Council report. The redevelopment of Lewisham Town Centre is going to make any rail based improvements extremely difficult / impossible because of the encroachment / blocking of obvious extensions / platform changes / station expansion. Even tunnelling is not going to be easy because of the rivers and the foundations for all the new buildings. IMO whoever decided on the Lewisham Gateway development needs their heads examining given how it has "affected" (for want of a nice word) the scope to improve rail transport in the area.
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Post by twobellstogo on Oct 26, 2014 11:40:27 GMT
Rather than extending the Bakerloo Line beyond Lewisham to Hayes, I wonder whether the DLR could be extended from Lewisham to Hayes, replacing National Rail instead? TfL have been instructed by the Mayor to stop all work on extending the DLR towards Bromley. This is because there is no viable business case for it. This was officially noted in a recent Bromley Council report. Good - the DLR was never the right answer for Bromley. Bromley Council, by the way, would rather the Bakerloo run to Bromley town centre (via Beckenham Junction) - they are dead against the line running to Hayes. Clearly no thought has gone into, for starters, running trains of two different sizes on the northern end of the Hayes line...could go on...won't... ...and I think this will eventually be one of the contributory factors to killing this latest plan to extend the Bakerloo - that and I suspect no-one will help fund the plan. A pity, but there we go. We South East Londoners are used to being the poor relations as regards rail links
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Post by snoggle on Oct 26, 2014 11:52:23 GMT
TfL have been instructed by the Mayor to stop all work on extending the DLR towards Bromley. This is because there is no viable business case for it. This was officially noted in a recent Bromley Council report. Good - the DLR was never the right answer for Bromley. Bromley Council, by the way, would rather the Bakerloo run to Bromley town centre (via Beckenham Junction) - they are dead against the line running to Hayes. Clearly no thought has gone into, for starters, running trains of two different sizes on the northern end of the Hayes line...could go on...won't... ...and I think this will eventually be one of the contributory factors to killing this latest plan to extend the Bakerloo - that and I suspect no-one will help fund the plan. A pity, but there we go. We South East Londoners are used to being the poor relations as regards rail links I understand that Bromley Council wanted DLR because it offered a slow but direct link to Canary Wharf. They don't want the Bakerloo Line either having read the relevant council briefing paper. The local Assembly Member has already posed a load of question to Boris via MQT which are clearly designed to flush out that a tube service would be slower and less comfortable than the existing SE train service. The fact the relevant info is in the consultation document is neither here nor there. Bromley are very keen to see the Overground extended from New Cross and down towards Hayes because it would get people to Canada Water for Jubilee Line connections. The big problem, though, is the abject lack of capacity between New Cross and Lewisham despite the work on the Tanners Flydown. My own view about the Bakerloo Line proposal is that it is daft to send it where it is not wanted (politically). I'd build via OKR and via Camberwell down to Lewisham and then Catford. You can play tunes as to what route runs to Catford and if you have an inner SE London loop service running across Lewisham.
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Post by ThinLizzy on Oct 26, 2014 16:08:59 GMT
Rather than extending the Bakerloo Line beyond Lewisham to Hayes, I wonder whether the DLR could be extended from Lewisham to Hayes, replacing National Rail instead? it was discussed a couple of years ago as part of a future 'DLR vision' which also included the Dagenham Dock extension, and extensions further into central London.
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