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Post by snoggle on Mar 27, 2015 19:56:54 GMT
TfL have released the consultation report on the Bakerloo Line extension. There is very strong support for the extensions but interestingly the Camberwell route is more strongly supported than the OKR route. Bromley Council don't support the take over of the Hayes Line - no surprise there. The strong dislike of South Eastern is also reflected in demands for the DLR and Overground to be extended much further into SE London. People also want more Overground stations too. consultations.tfl.gov.uk/tube/bakerloo-extension/user_uploads/bakerloo-line-extension-consultation-report-final.pdfThe report is a big read but they had 15,000+ responses to the consultation which is pretty phenomenal. Next steps are to produce a response to the issues raised in the consultation, further review the route options, discuss funding options with the relevant Boroughs and then there's more consultation next year.
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Post by routew15 on Jul 23, 2015 9:17:40 GMT
What "Bromley doesn't actually want" Croydon certainly will have! - quote from the Evening Standard (link)I like this idea of diverting/spurring the BLE. From Camberwell the route could easily serve, Brixton (alternatively Herne Hill), Streatham Hill, Streatham, Thornton Heath and Croydon. I think it will be a case of Croydon or Bromley (unless there's enough money to serve both). It will be interesting to see the response of the Mayor.
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Post by M1104 on Jul 23, 2015 9:34:56 GMT
What "Bromley doesn't actually want" Croydon certainly will have! - quote from the Evening Standard (link)I like this idea of diverting/spurring the BLE. From Camberwell the route could easily serve, Brixton (alternatively Herne Hill), Streatham Hill, Streatham, Thornton Heath and Croydon. I think it will be a case of Croydon or Bromley (unless there's enough money to serve both). It will be interesting to see the response of the Mayor. Croydon would indeed be very beneficial with a tube line but I always thought the Victoria Line would be more ideal for that, especially where the overrun tunnels south of Brixton appearantly end near enough at Herne Hill.
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Post by vjaska on Jul 23, 2015 12:02:39 GMT
What "Bromley doesn't actually want" Croydon certainly will have! - quote from the Evening Standard (link)I like this idea of diverting/spurring the BLE. From Camberwell the route could easily serve, Brixton (alternatively Herne Hill), Streatham Hill, Streatham, Thornton Heath and Croydon. I think it will be a case of Croydon or Bromley (unless there's enough money to serve both). It will be interesting to see the response of the Mayor. I think Bromley Council should actually listen to the people who live in the area. I did have a proposal in the tube section of the forum for an extension of the Victoria Line to Croydon tangytango.proboards.com/thread/7983/victoria-line-extension-ideaAlternatively, what could happen is the Victoria Line could run over the Streatham Hill corridor and the Bakerloo coming onto the spur and running over the West Norwood corridor.
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Post by routew15 on Jul 23, 2015 13:28:58 GMT
Croydon would indeed be very beneficial with a tube line but I always thought the Victoria Line would be more ideal for that, especially where the overrun tunnels south of Brixton appearantly end near enough at Herne Hill. I think Bromley Council should actually listen to the people who live in the area. I did have a proposal in the tube section of the forum for an extension of the Victoria Line to Croydon tangytango.proboards.com/thread/7983/victoria-line-extension-ideaAlternatively, what could happen is the Victoria Line could run over the Streatham Hill corridor and the Bakerloo coming onto the spur and running over the West Norwood corridor. If you extend the Victoria Line i think you'd be extending the problems that come with it. It is already to full to capacity (in all respects) the stations, the platforms, the trains and the line. To me it seems London Underground is doing everything it can to get the most capacity out of the line. I would think the interim steps (between 36 tph and crossrail 2) to help problems is to add a ninth car to the trains on the Victoria Line (using selective door opening) and adding a stop at Brixton on the London Overground, this could spread journey patterns (also has the potential to make things worse ). This maybe a big pie-in-the-sky idea but I would also close Pimlico station, but only from groundbreaking until the first service of Crossrail2, in order to help speed up the service on the rest of Line. Pimlico station has no interchange with other links so no lost connections for passengers, Victoria station is also 13 mins by foot (Those with mobility issues might find it easier to travel from Vauxhall or Victoria which will both have step free access route 360 & C10 serve the station and the 24 is not to far) so there is not an incredibly far distance. vjaska- Tottaly agree Bromley should listen to what residents want. I think your VLE would have too many stops on it to get the best value for money. For an extension sometimes less stops can mean more length on the route. If it was the Victoria Line that was extended then in between Brixton and Croydon you'd probably only be able to get one stop, this would leave the 109 as a feeder bus to all the places in between the VLE stations. it would seem Crossrail 2 has the capability of heading to Croydon if the Battersea spur is used correctly, ie. Victoria, Brixton, Streatham, Thornton Heath and Croydon (A stop at Battersea is unnecessary in my opinion because the NLE is already there but I guess a space can be left for future addition of the station).
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Post by snoggle on Jul 23, 2015 13:32:21 GMT
Croydon would indeed be very beneficial with a tube line but I always thought the Victoria Line would be more ideal for that, especially where the overrun tunnels south of Brixton appearantly end near enough at Herne Hill. The Victoria Line is full. There is no merit in adding more and more passengers to a line that is already full. I know a lot of people railhead to Brixton by bus but if you extend the line you would only lose some of that demand to new stations. However the convenience of the route would pull in vastly more people to every stop meaning trains would be so full by Brixton that whoever went there by bus would be unable to board. The only way to serve Croydon by tube is to build an entirely new line and start from scratch. However it would be full within months. Even the Bakerloo Line extension will be of limited value. It does have spare capacity but the further you stretch from the centre the less value it has for people closer in. I don't believe the Bakerloo Line should run beyond Catford if it is to serve any sort of purpose at Lewisham or Old Kent Road. No point opening a new line from Bromley for it to be so packed that people on the Old Kent Road will be unable to board trains. Politicians are pouncing on any initiative to make their own areas look good even if it makes no sense. What Croydon needs is more capacity on the National Rail network to get people into town quickly. That involves a station rebuild and rearrangement of Windmill Junction north of the station. Some people might use a slow tube line to Croydon but it's unlikely when a main line train takes 15 minutes. It's much more likely to pull in demand from areas closer to the centre as well as cater for local flows in South London. It would fill up without a doubt but whether it would offer much to Croydon I just don't know.
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Post by vjaska on Jul 23, 2015 14:13:35 GMT
If you was to extend both the Victoria Line & Bakerloo line together to run side by side from Brixton to Croydon, then I believe it could work.
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Post by ilovelondonbuses on Jul 23, 2015 15:45:46 GMT
I do find it annoying that Croydon always seem to be overlooked in terms of transport and pretty much everything else. I was shocked that Croydon wasn't a consideration for the proposed Crossrail 2 which would be much better for in terms of capacity issues of transport in Croydon. Although, I do think an Victoria Line extension to West Croydon would be the ideal option. The A23 corridor is ever crowded, something has to be done about it.
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Post by snoggle on Jul 23, 2015 20:53:41 GMT
I do find it annoying that Croydon always seem to be overlooked in terms of transport and pretty much everything else. I was shocked that Croydon wasn't a consideration for the proposed Crossrail 2 which would be much better for in terms of capacity issues of transport in Croydon. Although, I do think an Victoria Line extension to West Croydon would be the ideal option. The A23 corridor is ever crowded, something has to be done about it. So Croydon gets no investment? It has the Overground service into West Croydon, tens of millions have been spent and continue to be spent on Tramlink and there's been modest investment in the bus network - the same sort of modest changes everyone else has had to put up with. A very large part of the train fleet has been renewed to give air conditioned carriages and another massive boost is underway with new trains and services on Thameslink that will provide access to Croydon over a very wide area. There are also further upgrades being considered post Thameslink. In terms of CR2 then Croydon and Sutton and other lines were all considered but didn't have the same scale of benefits that relieving the routes into Waterloo has. The problem is that Waterloo is chronically overloaded and there is burgeoning demand on every route. CR2 brings the benefit of taking suburban trains out of the way so more longer distance trains can run, especially if a fifth track is added in and around the Wimbledon area. Victoria is not the bottleneck on the Brighton Main line. Based on comments elsewhere the real nightmare is the mess of lines north of East Croydon plus other junctions south of Croydon. These need sorting so more trains can run to Thameslink and Victoria. We have to accept that Croydon is very unlikely to see any tube lines ever. It might end up on Crossrail 4 if such is ever built. Crossrail 3 is apparently tentatively allocated to a NW - SE tunnel linking South Eastern's services to unspecified lines to the NW of London.
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Post by paulsw2 on Jul 24, 2015 2:24:05 GMT
If you was to extend both the Victoria Line & Bakerloo line together to run side by side from Brixton to Croydon, then I believe it could work. There would be a problem with that as the Victoria line stock is a slightly different size to other tube stock plus Bakerloo runs as 7 car trains the Vic is 8 also the Victoria line has one form of signalling which won't be compatible with other ATO lines.
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Post by vjaska on Jul 24, 2015 10:35:10 GMT
If you was to extend both the Victoria Line & Bakerloo line together to run side by side from Brixton to Croydon, then I believe it could work. There would be a problem with that as the Victoria line stock is a slightly different size to other tube stock plus Bakerloo runs as 7 car trains the Vic is 8 also the Victoria line has one form of signalling which won't be compatible with other ATO lines. I never said on the same track but more like how the Jubilee & Metropolitan are between Finchley Road & Wembley Park except in this case, it would be underground.
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Post by routew15 on Sept 11, 2015 12:28:56 GMT
TfL has posted their Response to issues raised in the consultation. Haven't made it through the whole document yet but very interesting some of the points. The speed at which the project is progressing is painful, but the way politicians talk about the project you'd think it was as far progressed as Crossrail . I totally agree with the point about 'phasing in the service', it would be nice if the line could at least reach Lewisham before 2025.
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Post by snoggle on Sept 11, 2015 12:36:46 GMT
TfL has posted their Response to issues raised in the consultation. Haven't made it through the whole document yet but very interesting some of the points. The speed at which the project is progressing is painful, but the way politicians talk about the project you'd think it was as far progressed as Crossrail . I totally agree with the point about 'phasing in the service', it would be nice if the line could at least reach Lewisham before 2025. And in Mayor's Question next week several questions along the lines of "as Bromley don't want the tube will you extend it to Croydon?" "will you make TfL consult on route options to Croydon?" "What do you think of Bromley Council's view about the Bloo line extension?" Nice to see that's all settled then!!
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Post by lonmark on Sept 17, 2015 18:59:27 GMT
I hope TfL told bromley council tough! Lol.
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Post by snoggle on Dec 19, 2015 9:16:27 GMT
TfL have announced that their preferred route for the extension is via Old Kent Road. In an attempt to pacify Southwark Council, who wanted two routes, they are also proposing a Camberwell station on the Thameslink route. TfL say no final decisions have been taken but it's no shock that Old Kent Road has been selected because it's the only route with the possibility of private sector developer funding contributions. It also seems TfL have chopped the project into two phases - phase 1 to Lewisham and phase 2 being an extension beyond Lewisham but there's no clarity as to where it would go (Hayes, Bromley, Beckenham Junction). tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2015/december/bakerloo-line-extension-to-improve-transport-links-in-south-london-by-2030TfL, City Hall and the DfT are due to launch a "Rail Vision" for London and the South East in January and I think that will contain a fair number of surprises about the suburban rail network and might explain why not much is being said about extending the Bakerloo beyond Lewisham.
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