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Post by southlondonbus on Jul 15, 2017 14:48:58 GMT
Ultimately the 13 was doomed as opposed to the 82 as TFL wanted to remove another route from Oxford Street as the 13 had the excess capacity.
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Post by sid on Jul 16, 2017 19:33:37 GMT
I agree. I understand that the number 13 was long established along the Finchley Road but in the end the route was withdrawn as should the number have been and the replacement advertised as more buses on route 82. It's six of one, or half a dozen of the other, there are arguments on both sides. Sure, there's impeccable logic that the 82 number should have been kept and the 13 withdrawn as the route is that of the 82, and indeed the first consultation was to do just that. On the other hand bus services are there for passengers, and if passengers express the view that they want the number 13 to remain (as we are told they did in the original consultation), who am I to criticise. Arguably TfL can show that they listen and make changes as a result of comments by calling the route number 13. Also don't forget that go back in time and it was the 13 that ran onto Finchley, whilst the 82 only ran to Golders Green, so there's plenty of history of bus 13 going to North Finchley.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I think the real message behind the comments was that passengers wanted to keep the 13 going through the West End to Aldwych. After several months of the changes, I am far from convinced TfL got this one right. If TfL needed to make some savings it would have been better to extend the old 13 to North Finchley at it's old frequencies and have had the 82 go back to its original routing of Golders Green - Victoria at a lower frequency. No changes to the 113 or 139 would have been needed and a lot more passengers would have their needs met by direct buses than do today.
This is getting ridiculous now, passengers wanted to keep the 13 as it was. They didn't want the 82 to be renumbered 13.
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Post by snoggle on Sept 12, 2017 9:28:50 GMT
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Post by Hassaan on Sept 12, 2017 21:24:30 GMT
Mr Dismore continues in fine form in the latest set of Mayor's Questions. I think a new stock of popcorn may be required. He also decided that the tendering process is also worthy of his attention. The issue in question 2 only exists because Tower Transit went for a B5LH. All body variations of them (Gemini 3, MMC and Evoseti) only have 6 seats in the low floor section and a significant amount of the lower deck aisle is higher than that. Yes I've noticed that the old 13 indeed used B5LHs, but the 82 didn't most of the time (I know VWHs appeared sometimes). Even the TPs managed to have 7 seats in the low floor section, while TEs had 8 (10-reg onwards) or 10 (up to 59-reg). On the other hand, the normal integral double deck MMC (both diesel and hybrid) manage to fit 10 seats in the low floor section and still have a wheelchair space the same size or slightly larger than the B5LH variants. And this is an area where longer single deckers really shine, as the 11m MMCs used on many routes have 12 seats in the low floor area!
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Post by thewintersoldier on Oct 24, 2017 9:10:43 GMT
It’s interesting to note that I spoke to a 139 driver the other day and he says that there’s always been a Diversion on the 139 since Sovereign took it over and as far as I remember there has been.
West Hampstead closure diverted via Finchley Road route C11
Lisson Grove closure diverted via 113 northbound and Marylebone southbound
Temporary closure of Abbey Road resulting in buses diverted via Kilburn High road and Quex Road
Now you’ve got oxford street closure due to the Christmas lights and let’s not forget regents street closures.
He jokingly said he’s forgotten the actual route!
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Post by snoggle on Jan 27, 2018 1:44:00 GMT
The Dismore is still going! Note TfL's latest response about Finchley Rd services.
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Post by busaholic on Jan 27, 2018 21:27:54 GMT
The Dismore is still going! Note TfL's latest response about Finchley Rd services. One extra peak bus on the 13 (or even 113) perhaps? This would seem about the maximum extent to which TfL would go these days. The new contract referred to is of course the date on which the problems started, so either the Mayor is speaking with forked tongue or, more likely, having the wool pulled over his eyes by TfL. Revised bus schedules in August didn't bring forth more buses. Hendon/Swiss Cottage have been swing voter areas for as long as I've known them so some crumbs MAY be offered.
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Post by snoggle on Jan 27, 2018 23:10:49 GMT
The Dismore is still going! Note TfL's latest response about Finchley Rd services. One extra peak bus on the 13 (or even 113) perhaps? This would seem about the maximum extent to which TfL would go these days. The new contract referred to is of course the date on which the problems started, so either the Mayor is speaking with forked tongue or, more likely, having the wool pulled over his eyes by TfL. Revised bus schedules in August didn't bring forth more buses. Hendon/Swiss Cottage have been swing voter areas for as long as I've known them so some crumbs MAY be offered. Well it's quite clear to me that the Mayor really doesn't know what he's talking about on transport matters. I watched a clip of him explaining the "sale and lease back" deal on Crossrail trains as something entirely "standard". It just isn't standard for TfL *at all*. I'd not be suprised if City Hall don't understand what TfL is sticking in answers despite the apparently neurotic approach to press releases and media management that emanates from City Hall. I would be surprised if very much is done on the Finchley Road but, of course, the works at Baker Street are going to screw the service even more so Mr Dismore is going to be moaning and moaning for months and months to come. In short, Finchley Road's buses are a irresolvable mess.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 28, 2018 8:53:48 GMT
Off peak the current situation is perfectly fine now on the Finchley Road and off peak there is still spare capacity so TFL are not going to be introducing any additional routes or splits so the most will be additional journeys, maybe even a couple just as far as Baker Street on the 13.
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Post by sid on Jan 28, 2018 9:12:23 GMT
Off peak the current situation is perfectly fine now on the Finchley Road and off peak there is still spare capacity so TFL are not going to be introducing any additional routes or splits so the most will be additional journeys, maybe even a couple just as far as Baker Street on the 13. That's been my experience too that there is plenty of spare capacity on the 13, certainly off peak, and it seems most complaints are about the poor service since TT took it over apparently with a very low bid, so maybe TfL are just getting what they paid for?
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Post by busaholic on Jan 28, 2018 17:01:12 GMT
Off peak the current situation is perfectly fine now on the Finchley Road and off peak there is still spare capacity so TFL are not going to be introducing any additional routes or splits so the most will be additional journeys, maybe even a couple just as far as Baker Street on the 13. That's been my experience too that there is plenty of spare capacity on the 13, certainly off peak, and it seems most complaints are about the poor service since TT took it over apparently with a very low bid, so maybe TfL are just getting what they paid for? Working the 13 from Westbourne Park akin to working the 24 from Stockwell; the service can only deteriorate.
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Post by ADH45258 on Jan 28, 2018 21:33:28 GMT
That's been my experience too that there is plenty of spare capacity on the 13, certainly off peak, and it seems most complaints are about the poor service since TT took it over apparently with a very low bid, so maybe TfL are just getting what they paid for? Working the 13 from Westbourne Park akin to working the 24 from Stockwell; the service can only deteriorate. X with the 13 and SW with the 24 are much closer to the respective routes than many other routes are to their garages. Regarding the 13, X to Baker Street is much closer than PB was to North Finchley. Similarly, SW to Pimlico is actually a shorter distance than HT to Hampstead Heath.
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Post by busaholic on Jan 29, 2018 23:36:11 GMT
Working the 13 from Westbourne Park akin to working the 24 from Stockwell; the service can only deteriorate. X with the 13 and SW with the 24 are much closer to the respective routes than many other routes are to their garages. Regarding the 13, X to Baker Street is much closer than PB was to North Finchley. Similarly, SW to Pimlico is actually a shorter distance than HT to Hampstead Heath. As with size, distance isn't everything. Given that short workings are frowned upon, at the very least, it is often better to run a route from a garage whose nearest point is to one of the termini of that route. In my opinion, why no operator can get to grips with the 188, so it changes hands at every opportunity, is that the natural geography of the route has no garage within spitting distance, unless of course you electric single decked it and ran it from Waterloo! I also doubt an HT driver would have driven a 24 under a low bridge like an SW one did, because NW3 is not a 'foreign' area to them.
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Post by snoggle on Jan 29, 2018 23:53:54 GMT
In my opinion, why no operator can get to grips with the 188, so it changes hands at every opportunity, is that the natural geography of the route has no garage within spitting distance, unless of course you electric single decked it and ran it from Waterloo! I also doubt an HT driver would have driven a 24 under a low bridge like an SW one did, because NW3 is not a 'foreign' area to them. Except that Morden Wharf garage is now within spitting distance of the 188's terminal at North Greenwich. Also the old Mandela Way garage was not too far off route either although the route was not out to tender during the period that MW was operational. I'm not sure that remote garage operation is an insurmountable issue. Plenty of examples where operators manage to run perfectly decent services from garages not on line of route. The main problem is when you get severe service dislocation due to an accident, roadworks etc. Trying to cope with crew reliefs from one end of the route or at some mid point in those circumstances can become horrible. Unfortunately routes into Zone 1 and in parts of South London have had years of this sort of disruption which is partly why some Abellio routes are infamous for buses parked up in lines at relief points. It's why Capital Citybus / First really struggled with the 123 at times when it was run from DM - only need Tottenham to go into meltdown or the North Circular / A13 to become a nightmare and the service falls to bits and takes forever to recover. Dragging the conversation back to the 13 I've no direct experience of it since the change of operator. I did have cause to try to use the amended 139 and clearly London Sovereign were having issues with that despite many years experience with the old 13. There is always a learning curve and most operators manage to "break the back" of newly taken on routes within a few weeks but there are exceptions even with the best run garages.
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Post by vjaska on Jan 30, 2018 1:01:51 GMT
X with the 13 and SW with the 24 are much closer to the respective routes than many other routes are to their garages. Regarding the 13, X to Baker Street is much closer than PB was to North Finchley. Similarly, SW to Pimlico is actually a shorter distance than HT to Hampstead Heath. it is often better to run a route from a garage whose nearest point is to one of the termini of that route. I wouldn't necessarily say so - sometimes, it's better for a route to run from a garage where it's roughly somewhere in the middle of the route but without being too far away from the route itself. That's why I'd love to see the 37 move back to SW because I think running it from PM causes quite a bit of trouble should anything go wrong at the Putney end - at least being at SW, your nearer to the Putney end of the route but still close to the Peckham end as well. The problem I could envisage with this is live changeovers at Clapham Common which cause problems space wise unless they do them at Acre Lane (Lambeth Town Hall) in Brixton and use the Victoria Line instead.
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