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Post by PGAT on Jul 9, 2024 18:34:58 GMT
I was listening to LBC today and they had Sadiq Khan on and this was after Kier Starmer had a meeting of the Mayors. Sadiq re-alliterated his intention to bring London commuter lines in under TFL. So given that information I would hazard a guess that Southeastern would be the first to come under TFL, under this Government. I'm sure Kier will have that done and dusted in a week or so 🤣 🤣 but seriously what is going to be achieved? It will still be the same complex network with the same incidents to deal with, tree down blocking the Greenwich line this morning and a tresspasser on the track at St John's this afternoon. Bring back better ran services? The Overground and Elizabeth Line prove in that regard that TfL have a good track record
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Post by greenboy on Jul 9, 2024 18:45:44 GMT
I'm sure Kier will have that done and dusted in a week or so 🤣 🤣 but seriously what is going to be achieved? It will still be the same complex network with the same incidents to deal with, tree down blocking the Greenwich line this morning and a tresspasser on the track at St John's this afternoon. Bring back better ran services? The Overground and Elizabeth Line prove in that regard that TfL have a good track record They’re totally different from the complex Southeastern network.
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Post by southlondon413 on Jul 9, 2024 18:46:29 GMT
I'm sure Kier will have that done and dusted in a week or so 🤣 🤣 but seriously what is going to be achieved? It will still be the same complex network with the same incidents to deal with, tree down blocking the Greenwich line this morning and a tresspasser on the track at St John's this afternoon. Bring back better ran services? The Overground and Elizabeth Line prove in that regard that TfL have a good track record Overground yes, but the Elizabeth Line has suffered from a lot of problems that are causing major issues.
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Post by PGAT on Jul 9, 2024 19:04:12 GMT
Bring back better ran services? The Overground and Elizabeth Line prove in that regard that TfL have a good track record Overground yes, but the Elizabeth Line has suffered from a lot of problems that are causing major issues. Sure the Elizabeth Line has had technical software issues (every line has issues at some point), but consider the days of 2 car turbos into Paddington are a thing of the past
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Post by YY13VKP on Jul 9, 2024 19:34:53 GMT
Bring back better ran services? The Overground and Elizabeth Line prove in that regard that TfL have a good track record They’re totally different from the complex Southeastern network. The only other benefit I can see in a renationalised rail network of TfL bringing all London metro train services in house is better integration with other TfL modes of Transport, but this is far from the solution required to fix the many problems this complex rail network has. And doing just that will take many years to achieve, though Southeastern would be a good place to start integrating London metro systems into TfL control - especially given as they are about to order new trains to replace the Networkers and still need to refurbish 376's. But how far this new labour government will get with renationalising the rail network and what they do remains to be seen, and I'm hoping this will be made clear in the coming weeks. I do like the idea of a better integrated system but personally I feel full re-nationalisation is the wrong way to go about it.
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Post by southlondon413 on Jul 9, 2024 19:43:26 GMT
They’re totally different from the complex Southeastern network. The only other benefit I can see in a renationalised rail network of TfL bringing all London metro train services in house is better integration with other TfL modes of Transport, but this is far from the solution required to fix the many problems this complex rail network has. And doing just that will take many years to achieve, though Southeastern would be a good place to start integrating London metro systems into TfL control - especially given as they are about to order new trains to replace the Networkers and still need to refurbish 376's. But how far this new labour government will get with renationalising the rail network and what they do remains to be seen, and I'm hoping this will be made clear in the coming weeks. I do like the idea of a better integrated system but personally I feel full re-nationalisation is the wrong way to go about it. Stricter management contracts modelled off the Overground contact would be the first step I’d take.
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Post by VMH2537 on Jul 9, 2024 20:14:02 GMT
I think what can safely be said is the current operation is nothing but abysmal. Cutting off-peak frequencies to what many would consider 'useless for London'.
If TfL were to take over Southeastern (which could potentially happen), a first sensible step would be to restore the off-peak frequencies on the metro services including the Victoria to Orpington service back to 4tph and the Greenwich, Bexleyheath and Sidcup lines back to 6tph respectively towards Charing Cross/Cannon Street.
There may be some scope for further enhancement once these are completed.
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Post by southlondon413 on Jul 9, 2024 20:27:11 GMT
I think what can safely be said is the current operation is nothing but abysmal. Cutting off-peak frequencies to what many would consider 'useless for London'. If TfL were to take over Southeastern (which could potentially happen), a first sensible step would be to restore the off-peak frequencies on the metro services including the Victoria to Orpington service back to 4tph and the Greenwich, Bexleyheath and Sidcup lines back to 6tph respectively towards Charing Cross/Cannon Street. There may be some scope for further enhancement once these are completed. That’s assuming there is capacity on the lines and stations to add these services back in.
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Post by PGAT on Jul 9, 2024 20:45:44 GMT
I think what can safely be said is the current operation is nothing but abysmal. Cutting off-peak frequencies to what many would consider 'useless for London'. If TfL were to take over Southeastern (which could potentially happen), a first sensible step would be to restore the off-peak frequencies on the metro services including the Victoria to Orpington service back to 4tph and the Greenwich, Bexleyheath and Sidcup lines back to 6tph respectively towards Charing Cross/Cannon Street. There may be some scope for further enhancement once these are completed. That’s assuming there is capacity on the lines and stations to add these services back in. If they existed before what's holding them back now?
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Post by southlondon413 on Jul 9, 2024 20:47:03 GMT
That’s assuming there is capacity on the lines and stations to add these services back in. If they existed before what's holding them back now? I don’t know, timetables have changed?
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Post by vjaska on Jul 9, 2024 22:03:25 GMT
Bring back better ran services? The Overground and Elizabeth Line prove in that regard that TfL have a good track record Overground yes, but the Elizabeth Line has suffered from a lot of problems that are causing major issues. Despite those issues, it has still been successful. Southeastern aren't great and I trust TfL with it more than the current band of private operators - London Overground is proven and is something mayors of both political persuasions have improved and embraced. The first step should be the Victoria to Orpington service which would be an easier one to start with and there should be space to have the off peak match the peak every 15 minute service and then once that's bedded in, start exploring how best to proceed with the Great Northern and the rest of the Southeastern routes that are more complex.
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Post by PGAT on Jul 9, 2024 22:12:43 GMT
Overground yes, but the Elizabeth Line has suffered from a lot of problems that are causing major issues. Despite those issues, it has still been successful. Southeastern aren't great and I trust TfL with it more than the current band of private operators - London Overground is proven and is something mayors of both political persuasions have improved and embraced. The first step should be the Victoria to Orpington service which would be an easier one to start with and there should be space to have the off peak match the peak every 15 minute service and then once that's bedded in, start exploring how best to proceed with the Great Northern and the rest of the Southeastern routes that are more complex. Although 4tph will be restored anyway from December
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jul 9, 2024 22:18:22 GMT
Bring back better ran services? The Overground and Elizabeth Line prove in that regard that TfL have a good track record Overground yes, but the Elizabeth Line has suffered from a lot of problems that are causing major issues. Overground is very hit & miss. The North London line has regular delays, cancellations and very poor headways. It is as bad at times as the western section of the Elizabeth line.
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Post by rif153 on Jul 12, 2024 10:56:24 GMT
They’re totally different from the complex Southeastern network. The only other benefit I can see in a renationalised rail network of TfL bringing all London metro train services in house is better integration with other TfL modes of Transport, but this is far from the solution required to fix the many problems this complex rail network has. And doing just that will take many years to achieve, though Southeastern would be a good place to start integrating London metro systems into TfL control - especially given as they are about to order new trains to replace the Networkers and still need to refurbish 376's. But how far this new labour government will get with renationalising the rail network and what they do remains to be seen, and I'm hoping this will be made clear in the coming weeks. I do like the idea of a better integrated system but personally I feel full re-nationalisation is the wrong way to go about it. I believe when the Labour manifesto came out there was talk that mayors would only be limited to operating services in their areas, meaning TfL wouldn't get to operate any metro services outside the Greater London boundary. This seems quite arbitrary as obviously plenty of services stop just outside the Greater London area at places like Hampton Court and Epsom but are effectively London commuter services. Now it looks like rail devolution is back on the cards, as Khan is saying 'watch this space' and I suspect he will get rail services which wholly run within the Greater London boundary. TfL will likely improve many of these services, which are often being badly neglected by their current TOCs. I do think though that there can be a tendency to look at rail devolution to TfL through rose tinted glasses, with this notion that the transport authority will do a great job of running the railway no questions asked. In some cases the bar is so low for services TfL take over its difficult for them not to improve the services. capitalomnibus is right about the shoddy performance of the North London Line, which is still some way off a service you'd be happy to rely on daily. Wait until TfL start plastering all these gimmicky line names over the new rail services they takeover, introduce awful all stations calling patterns and put horrible spartan longitudinal seating in on all new trains. In a nutshell, I'm not convinced TfL have quite got the hang of operating national rail services yet.
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Post by PGAT on Jul 12, 2024 11:07:13 GMT
Interesting about the point of staying within the Greater London boundary. I believe a turnback siding is being constructed at Belmont soon which just about squeezes in the Borough of Sutton
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