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Post by capitalomnibus on Aug 26, 2015 7:58:55 GMT
The system imo is a load of bullocks and has certain drivers driving like old grannies afraid for it to hit a yellow or worse red. After 2 flashing yellows within a certain time you would get a red. You can also get a straight red if you slammed on brakes violently, cornered like it was a slalom test. Don't know if its possible to get a yellow or red on acceleration though. You also get certain drivers would crawl at literally less than 5 mph to go over speed humps so they don't get an event. This has been to the annoyance of over road users causing them to take evasive action. Also if you do not press the gas or brake pedal you could literally go over a speed hump and not create an event; there are a few other flaws within the system that you could cheat it and still drive badly and not get events.
If other road users are having to take "evasive action" over a bus slowing down for speed bumps they are clearly traveling too fast. You can't go quickly over a speed bump in a bus - it'll be seriously uncomfortable for all concerned and the forces felt at the rear of the bus are greater than those at the front. It is possible to go over a speed hump on momentum alone but it's important to balance speed and passenger comfort. And I don't know about anyone else on here but I'd prefer to get a bus driven by a "granny" driver - I much prefer to not have to watch out of the windscreen as a passenger. I expect a comfortable journey. Unfortunately, far too many Lewis Hamilton wannabes on the buses up here  Below 5mph on speed humps would get your a fail in your PSV test and not keeping up to road conditions speed. So the so called granny driver I am talking about which you may think is safe because they are going slow; I have seen this type of driver end up in more collisions. They are also the type likely to hit low bridges and some of the extreme damage I have seen over the years i.e. buses rear ending others have been from this type of over cautious driver. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Aug 26, 2015 8:03:56 GMT
So why is it the case that we sometimes see the odd driver hammering down on the pedal as much as possible? For example, I've read on here that drivers of the N3 like to drive as fast as they can. I'm sure this is the case for most other night bus services too. You can be hammering it down the road and it will be staying green if you are being smooth about it, not slamming on the brakes, not accelerating into/out of corners ect, smooth driving is the key, not granny driving at 10-15 mph even at that speed if you aren't reading the road ahead and an addison lee car cuts you up you are going to have to brake and you will most likely get an event for it. Here is a video that explains the system It's basically to just save money at the end of the day, there are case studies to prove this. Unless your safety score is quite bad and you are classed as a red driver you won't be hearing from anyone, If you do become a red driver and don't improve after being given a warning someone will come out to asses your drive and give you hints on how to improve ect ect, at Stagecoach anyway we have been told we won't be disciplined for having a bad score. Things most people don't like about the system, There are times and places where you genuinely can't avoid causing an "Event" for some people this is a big issue, driver's going through lights to avoid getting an "Event" for braking ect, There are some buses where the system is not calibrated correctly and you can get an "Event" for doing literally nothing, The system can also be set off by strong vibrations EG Sub woofer in passing cars... That was the worst thing about it, drivers slowing so much before a red light not to be caught, then if the amber did change, they would not even stop because they were scared of getting an event (flashing yellow) on the monitor. Downside I have seen of this is drivers been flashed by traffic light camera and got points on their licence with a fine. |
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Post by greeny253 on Aug 26, 2015 8:31:47 GMT
Some of you appear to have missed my point entirely. I'm not condoning driving around everywhere slowly. Yes the bus needs to keep pace with the rest of the traffic but not at the expense of passenger comfort. Now, a question for capitalomnibus. How would going at 5MPH over a speed bump on test constitute a fail on PSV test? That is. What could the examiner mark you down for? It's been a while since I took mine but I'm pretty sure we were told to slow down for speed humps though I couldn't tell you how fast we actually went over them. Also, how are the slower drivers more likely to hit a low bridge? Surely the ones taking their time approaching hazards are more likely to react to them in time. I must have been doing something wrong... 6 years and not one low bridge  Clear to see that some of you at least would prefer a quick drive over comfort. What use is getting somewhere quickly if the journey makes you feel uncomfortable with the drivers driving? |
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Post by greeny253 on Aug 26, 2015 8:35:29 GMT
You can be hammering it down the road and it will be staying green if you are being smooth about it, not slamming on the brakes, not accelerating into/out of corners ect, smooth driving is the key, not granny driving at 10-15 mph even at that speed if you aren't reading the road ahead and an addison lee car cuts you up you are going to have to brake and you will most likely get an event for it. Here is a video that explains the system It's basically to just save money at the end of the day, there are case studies to prove this. Unless your safety score is quite bad and you are classed as a red driver you won't be hearing from anyone, If you do become a red driver and don't improve after being given a warning someone will come out to asses your drive and give you hints on how to improve ect ect, at Stagecoach anyway we have been told we won't be disciplined for having a bad score. Things most people don't like about the system, There are times and places where you genuinely can't avoid causing an "Event" for some people this is a big issue, driver's going through lights to avoid getting an "Event" for braking ect, There are some buses where the system is not calibrated correctly and you can get an "Event" for doing literally nothing, The system can also be set off by strong vibrations EG Sub woofer in passing cars... That was the worst thing about it, drivers slowing so much before a red light not to be caught, then if the amber did change, they would not even stop because they were scared of getting an event (flashing yellow) on the monitor. Downside I have seen of this is drivers been flashed by traffic light camera and got points on their licence with a fine. I remember First installing this. Quite a few drivers used the green road as an excuse for running red lights. That said, there is nothing wrong with slowing down well before a red light. It's called anticipation and slowing down before the light and crawling up to it at an appropriate speed means the vehicle is less likely to need to stop if it's done right this using less fuel as pulling away from a standing start uses extra fuel. Something any professional driver should be well aware of. Those some "professionals" shouldn't be racing towards a green light either. And as for going through a changing to red light.. If (and only IF) you are too close to stop SAFELY then go through it. Stopping over the line will fail the pcv test, going through safely won't. Going through a red light that's been red for a while will get you a box 4 on a driving assessment and fail the pcv test. |
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Post by VPL630 on Aug 26, 2015 9:40:26 GMT
According to the spare rota, I'm on the 275 Friday, funny that as I haven't told them I know the route and I also haven't been shown round it by my mentor, oh well I wanted to do a different route anyway, what could possibly go wrong...  As I was on the 48's again yesterday as they changed my job, I finally got to drive scania's from both batches I've only really driven the 59 plates before, What a difference a batch can make, I know every bus drives different but there were noticeable differences. The 59 plate 15126 was very nippy and smooth on acceleration, kickdown also worked how it should, the brakes were smooth and the doors were quick. The bus was also set up in Dynamic mode which when going up gradients will allow the bus to downshift without the driver having to engage kickdown, according to the average MPG it was getting about 4.3MPG over the 4 hours that I had it, was a nice bus to drive The 10 Plate 15170 was a different story, This bus was set up in static mode so would change up as soon as possible, the take off was abysmal and it wasn't the smoothest either as the gearbox was providing some harsh shifts even a passenger commented on this, Kickdown worked but you literally had to kick the pedal down to get it to activate so I didn't bother using it, something I don't get about the scania buses is that if you have opened the rear doors the stop brake will not release until the front doors have completely shut, now this wouldn't be a problem if the front doors were fine but they were taking an age to close and I was actually losing time at bus stops because of this, even with me driving slower the bus averaged 3.6 MPG over the 3 and a half hours I had it. |
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Post by snoggle on Aug 26, 2015 10:49:25 GMT
According to the spare rota, I'm on the 275 Friday, funny that as I haven't told them I know the route and I also haven't been shown round it by my mentor, oh well I wanted to do a different route anyway, what could possibly go wrong... Would you like a list?  I shall have to have a little wander to see if I can spot you at the wheel. |
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Post by VPL630 on Aug 26, 2015 11:11:56 GMT
According to the spare rota, I'm on the 275 Friday, funny that as I haven't told them I know the route and I also haven't been shown round it by my mentor, oh well I wanted to do a different route anyway, what could possibly go wrong... Would you like a list? I shall have to have a little wander to see if I can spot you at the wheel. 1445 - 0008 if it actually happens |
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Post by vjaska on Aug 26, 2015 12:06:59 GMT
Some of you appear to have missed my point entirely. I'm not condoning driving around everywhere slowly. Yes the bus needs to keep pace with the rest of the traffic but not at the expense of passenger comfort. Now, a question for capitalomnibus. How would going at 5MPH over a speed bump on test constitute a fail on PSV test? That is. What could the examiner mark you down for? It's been a while since I took mine but I'm pretty sure we were told to slow down for speed humps though I couldn't tell you how fast we actually went over them. Also, how are the slower drivers more likely to hit a low bridge? Surely the ones taking their time approaching hazards are more likely to react to them in time. I must have been doing something wrong... 6 years and not one low bridge Clear to see that some of you at least would prefer a quick drive over comfort. What use is getting somewhere quickly if the journey makes you feel uncomfortable with the drivers driving? You can have quick journeys with comfort though - the 3's drivers under Connex and Travel London used to do that despite treating the route as a race track. |
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Post by greeny253 on Aug 26, 2015 12:55:18 GMT
Some of you appear to have missed my point entirely. I'm not condoning driving around everywhere slowly. Yes the bus needs to keep pace with the rest of the traffic but not at the expense of passenger comfort. Now, a question for capitalomnibus. How would going at 5MPH over a speed bump on test constitute a fail on PSV test? That is. What could the examiner mark you down for? It's been a while since I took mine but I'm pretty sure we were told to slow down for speed humps though I couldn't tell you how fast we actually went over them. Also, how are the slower drivers more likely to hit a low bridge? Surely the ones taking their time approaching hazards are more likely to react to them in time. I must have been doing something wrong... 6 years and not one low bridge Clear to see that some of you at least would prefer a quick drive over comfort. What use is getting somewhere quickly if the journey makes you feel uncomfortable with the drivers driving? You can have quick journeys with comfort though - the 3's drivers under Connex and Travel London used to do that despite treating the route as a race track. And you can also have quick journeys that are literally white knuckle rides. Every time I go to Greenock I have a choice of the Stagecoach operated 585 or a handful of other routes operated by a company whose name I shall spare the negativity. If I can, it's the Stagecoach bus because unfortunately on the other routes I've either had to grab a bar to stay ON my seat or one occasion grab the wife because the driver moved away before she had positioned the buggy. Tell me how she's supposed to hold on with both hands on the buggy? |
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Post by vjaska on Aug 26, 2015 14:12:05 GMT
You can have quick journeys with comfort though - the 3's drivers under Connex and Travel London used to do that despite treating the route as a race track. And you can also have quick journeys that are literally white knuckle rides. Every time I go to Greenock I have a choice of the Stagecoach operated 585 or a handful of other routes operated by a company whose name I shall spare the negativity. If I can, it's the Stagecoach bus because unfortunately on the other routes I've either had to grab a bar to stay ON my seat or one occasion grab the wife because the driver moved away before she had positioned the buggy. Tell me how she's supposed to hold on with both hands on the buggy? Well they were driving ridiculously too fast but you can drive fast without it being uncomfortable for passengers - it's not difficult if done properly. On the other hand, I've had plenty of slow drivers who braked too late or just generally drove like a moron despite the lack of speed. Others that annoy me are people who drive at 20 along a 50mph or NSL road and then drive at 30-40 along a road full of speed humps without slowing down for the said humps and then cut across a large section of pavement outside a train station. |
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Post by VPL630 on Aug 26, 2015 14:34:05 GMT
According to the spare rota, I'm on the 275 Friday, funny that as I haven't told them I know the route and I also haven't been shown round it by my mentor, oh well I wanted to do a different route anyway, what could possibly go wrong... Would you like a list? I shall have to have a little wander to see if I can spot you at the wheel. Shame, it's been taken off me as I haven't been shown round the route  was looking forward to it |
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Post by snoggle on Aug 26, 2015 14:54:04 GMT
Would you like a list? I shall have to have a little wander to see if I can spot you at the wheel. Shame, it's been taken off me as I haven't been shown round the route was looking forward to it Proves the "does the driver know the route?" process works at Stagecoach! |
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Post by VPL630 on Aug 26, 2015 18:03:05 GMT
Shame, it's been taken off me as I haven't been shown round the route was looking forward to it Proves the "does the driver know the route?" process works at Stagecoach! I know the route but my mentor doesn't want me doing it without being shown round it, I haven't told them I know it yet, same with the 179 so that's why I was surprised to find I had been allocated a duty on the route |
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Post by VPL630 on Aug 26, 2015 18:15:22 GMT
And you can also have quick journeys that are literally white knuckle rides. Every time I go to Greenock I have a choice of the Stagecoach operated 585 or a handful of other routes operated by a company whose name I shall spare the negativity. If I can, it's the Stagecoach bus because unfortunately on the other routes I've either had to grab a bar to stay ON my seat or one occasion grab the wife because the driver moved away before she had positioned the buggy. Tell me how she's supposed to hold on with both hands on the buggy? Well they were driving ridiculously too fast but you can drive fast without it being uncomfortable for passengers - it's not difficult if done properly. On the other hand, I've had plenty of slow drivers who braked too late or just generally drove like a moron despite the lack of speed. Others that annoy me are people who drive at 20 along a 50mph or NSL road and then drive at 30-40 along a road full of speed humps without slowing down for the said humps and then cut across a large section of pavement outside a train station. You are arguing a lost cause, would TFL really want drivers running around breaking the law by speeding even if the passengers are getting a smooth ride, the answer will always be no and no one will stand up for the driver if he is involved in an accident, ALMOST always better to take the safe option, assess situations twice before you go flying into them, I'm quite sure if you went along the same county lanes I went down in Essex for the first time in a bus you would be far off the speed limit which is a limit not a target. Far too many people think these days oh it's fine I'll just go a little faster but they aren't seeing what could happen of if they are they just don't care, the amount of buses I've seen drive through RED traffic lights when they clearly had time to safely stop is crazy, why they seem to be in such a rush to break the law is crazy, you could have up to 80+ people on your bus and you are displaying to them that you are driving without due care and attention and don't seem to care about it and this isn't just one off cases it happens frequently and doesn't correlate to any company any route. No one should be in such a rush, there should be no pressure for drivers to be in a rush but it's apparent there is, drivers should always observe speed limits and drive in a safe manor regardless of how late they are |
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Post by greeny253 on Aug 26, 2015 18:29:59 GMT
Well they were driving ridiculously too fast but you can drive fast without it being uncomfortable for passengers - it's not difficult if done properly. On the other hand, I've had plenty of slow drivers who braked too late or just generally drove like a moron despite the lack of speed. Others that annoy me are people who drive at 20 along a 50mph or NSL road and then drive at 30-40 along a road full of speed humps without slowing down for the said humps and then cut across a large section of pavement outside a train station. You are arguing a lost cause, would TFL really want drivers running around breaking the law by speeding even if the passengers are getting a smooth ride, the answer will always be no and no one will stand up for the driver if he is involved in an accident, ALMOST always better to take the safe option, assess situations twice before you go flying into them, I'm quite sure if you went along the same county lanes I went down in Essex for the first time in a bus you would be far off the speed limit which is a limit not a target. Far too many people think these days oh it's fine I'll just go a little faster but they aren't seeing what could happen of if they are they just don't care, the amount of buses I've seen drive through RED traffic lights when they clearly had time to safely stop is crazy, why they seem to be in such a rush to break the law is crazy, you could have up to 80+ people on your bus and you are displaying to them that you are driving without due care and attention and don't seem to care about it and this isn't just one off cases it happens frequently and doesn't correlate to any company any route. No one should be in such a rush, there should be no pressure for drivers to be in a rush but it's apparent there is, drivers should always observe speed limits and drive in a safe manor regardless of how late they are My point exactly. Not aiming this at any one user in particular but there are far too many armchair expert bus drivers on here. |
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was looking forward to it