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Post by snoggle on Aug 26, 2015 20:32:47 GMT
You are arguing a lost cause, would TFL really want drivers running around breaking the law by speeding even if the passengers are getting a smooth ride, the answer will always be no and no one will stand up for the driver if he is involved in an accident, ALMOST always better to take the safe option, assess situations twice before you go flying into them, I'm quite sure if you went along the same county lanes I went down in Essex for the first time in a bus you would be far off the speed limit which is a limit not a target. Far too many people think these days oh it's fine I'll just go a little faster but they aren't seeing what could happen of if they are they just don't care, the amount of buses I've seen drive through RED traffic lights when they clearly had time to safely stop is crazy, why they seem to be in such a rush to break the law is crazy, you could have up to 80+ people on your bus and you are displaying to them that you are driving without due care and attention and don't seem to care about it and this isn't just one off cases it happens frequently and doesn't correlate to any company any route. No one should be in such a rush, there should be no pressure for drivers to be in a rush but it's apparent there is, drivers should always observe speed limits and drive in a safe manor regardless of how late they are My point exactly. Not aiming this at any one user in particular but there are far too many armchair expert bus drivers on here. Hang on a minute. I understand exactly what drivers are taught and how they're trained. We've had some excellent first hand reports on here to tell us. It is also evident that some drivers, consciously or unconsciously, are pressured by the I-Bus box in the cab plus the traditional pressures of wanting their break on time and finishing their shift on time. This has also come across on various television series which have shown us "behind the scenes" at TfL, in I-Bus rooms and with the drivers themselves. We've also seen how one company trains its drivers - that wasn't all about going slowly. I'll call myself an "armchair expert bus passenger" and it's quite clear to me that drivers can take the same route and drive very very differently with not much variance in comfort and safety *from the passenger's viewpoint*. There is the odd driver who is heavy footed / clumsey and I'd agree with you that journeys with them can be awful. The worst journey recently was when a 123 driver clipped kerbs 4 times during a return journey - unfortunately I got him back him too. I suspect he was very, very tired which is what caused the problem. It's also evident, from comments here, that some controllers are pretty awful and apply undue pressure on staff in order that targets are met. Over time that pressure will be taken on by some drivers who will put themselves under pressure - that will cause mistakes etc but it's not directly their fault. It's the culture they're being forced to work in. I've seen it happen with desk jobs - very easy for people to go "off the rails" through no obvious fault of the person involved. We also need to consider that TfL doesn't automatically adjust schedules when it launches major road works. It waits for chaos to ensue and if the drivers / controllers can cope. It's only when the service falls to bits with all the ensuing pressure that brings that there is enough evidence for the bus company to go to TfL demanding that something's done. I was looking at Stagecoach's trading statement a few hours ago and it said that road works and the resultant congestion was dampening down their expected revenues because they can't earn QIC bonuses. Whether we like it or not there is a pressure, right from the stock market, on operating staff to perform so the companies make a profit. It may not be "in your face" but it's there. I bet every single bus driver in London understands that simple company pressure about performance, money, league tables etc. |
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Post by RM5chris on Aug 26, 2015 20:40:46 GMT
...tempted to complain about the idiot on the 221 this afternoon whom went around me (I was on my bike) and then immediately pulled into a bus stop, deliberately went into the wrong lane at the junction of Bounds Green Road/Green Lanes (he was in the correct lane behind me and then decided to pull into the wrong lane and barge back in again further down) - he was in a lane road marked for turning left when he wanted to turn right and then blocked a yellow box junction to traffic from both directions on Green Lanes....I probably wont end up complaining as no doubt he was rushing to come off at the garage...but still no excuse to drive like a prat - accident waiting to happen.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Aug 26, 2015 20:41:39 GMT
Some of you appear to have missed my point entirely. I'm not condoning driving around everywhere slowly. Yes the bus needs to keep pace with the rest of the traffic but not at the expense of passenger comfort. Now, a question for capitalomnibus. How would going at 5MPH over a speed bump on test constitute a fail on PSV test? That is. What could the examiner mark you down for? It's been a while since I took mine but I'm pretty sure we were told to slow down for speed humps though I couldn't tell you how fast we actually went over them. Also, how are the slower drivers more likely to hit a low bridge? Surely the ones taking their time approaching hazards are more likely to react to them in time. I must have been doing something wrong... 6 years and not one low bridge  Clear to see that some of you at least would prefer a quick drive over comfort. What use is getting somewhere quickly if the journey makes you feel uncomfortable with the drivers driving? I have known drivers to have gone for their PSV test and failed for not keeping up with speed on more than one occasion. Basically getting 2 minor faults for the same thing. One route 308 driver used to take it to the extreme on Homerton Road and crawl over the humps at flywheel speed not to get an event. He left cars blowing the horn at many times and over taking him. The humps could be taken imo at 10mph, wouldn't go no more over them than that.
I obviously cant post names of people I have known to hit bridges, or do rear enders, foot placement error etc. But only ONE out of a possible near 20 was a fast driver and I honestly don't know how he got the PCV as he failed it 2 times and passed on his 3 attempt (they should never have allow it). The guy was young and knew it all. He then took 18256 and took the roof off clean on West Ham lane when the bus was brand new.
Yes I would rather a fast drive than a very tedious slow drive. Although when I say fast, not a cattle truck roller coaster ride where you get edge braking, late reading and planning, cornering throwing people off the seats, moving off with a jerk on the handbrake or halt brake.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Aug 26, 2015 20:54:17 GMT
According to the spare rota, I'm on the 275 Friday, funny that as I haven't told them I know the route and I also haven't been shown round it by my mentor, oh well I wanted to do a different route anyway, what could possibly go wrong...  As I was on the 48's again yesterday as they changed my job, I finally got to drive scania's from both batches I've only really driven the 59 plates before, What a difference a batch can make, I know every bus drives different but there were noticeable differences. The 59 plate 15126 was very nippy and smooth on acceleration, kickdown also worked how it should, the brakes were smooth and the doors were quick. The bus was also set up in Dynamic mode which when going up gradients will allow the bus to downshift without the driver having to engage kickdown, according to the average MPG it was getting about 4.3MPG over the 4 hours that I had it, was a nice bus to drive The 10 Plate 15170 was a different story, This bus was set up in static mode so would change up as soon as possible, the take off was abysmal and it wasn't the smoothest either as the gearbox was providing some harsh shifts even a passenger commented on this, Kickdown worked but you literally had to kick the pedal down to get it to activate so I didn't bother using it, something I don't get about the scania buses is that if you have opened the rear doors the stop brake will not release until the front doors have completely shut, now this wouldn't be a problem if the front doors were fine but they were taking an age to close and I was actually losing time at bus stops because of this, even with me driving slower the bus averaged 3.6 MPG over the 3 and a half hours I had it. Times sure has changed from back in the day when you started at a garage, you learned every route the garage operated. Then when on spare you had to do everything. If you didn't like a route they would do their best not to give it to you. I guess when they started to bring in single line route rota for tupe, then this must have ended. Im shocked at that average mpg figure, the Volvo B7TL's do better than the Scania taking around 6-7mpg.
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Post by greeny253 on Aug 26, 2015 21:05:56 GMT
I obviously cant post names of people I have known to hit bridges, or do rear enders, foot placement error etc. But only ONE out of a possible near 20 was a fast driver and I honestly don't know how he got the PCV as he failed it 2 times and passed on his 3 attempt (they should never have allow it). The guy was young and knew it all. Problem is, the industry is filling with these young know all drivers ( VPL630 no offence mate!). I've encountered very few new drivers that aren't cocky as hell straight out of training school! Incidentally that bridge on West Ham Lane was one of the first I (and the rest of my intake) was warned about at Stagecoach and I wasn't even based up there to begin with. |
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Post by greeny253 on Aug 26, 2015 21:13:17 GMT
My point exactly. Not aiming this at any one user in particular but there are far too many armchair expert bus drivers on here. Hang on a minute. I understand exactly what drivers are taught and how they're trained. We've had some excellent first hand reports on here to tell us. It is also evident that some drivers, consciously or unconsciously, are pressured by the I-Bus box in the cab plus the traditional pressures of wanting their break on time and finishing their shift on time. This has also come across on various television series which have shown us "behind the scenes" at TfL, in I-Bus rooms and with the drivers themselves. We've also seen how one company trains its drivers - that wasn't all about going slowly. I'll call myself an "armchair expert bus passenger" and it's quite clear to me that drivers can take the same route and drive very very differently with not much variance in comfort and safety *from the passenger's viewpoint*. There is the odd driver who is heavy footed / clumsey and I'd agree with you that journeys with them can be awful. The worst journey recently was when a 123 driver clipped kerbs 4 times during a return journey - unfortunately I got him back him too. I suspect he was very, very tired which is what caused the problem. It's also evident, from comments here, that some controllers are pretty awful and apply undue pressure on staff in order that targets are met. Over time that pressure will be taken on by some drivers who will put themselves under pressure - that will cause mistakes etc but it's not directly their fault. It's the culture they're being forced to work in. I've seen it happen with desk jobs - very easy for people to go "off the rails" through no obvious fault of the person involved. We also need to consider that TfL doesn't automatically adjust schedules when it launches major road works. It waits for chaos to ensue and if the drivers / controllers can cope. It's only when the service falls to bits with all the ensuing pressure that brings that there is enough evidence for the bus company to go to TfL demanding that something's done. I was looking at Stagecoach's trading statement a few hours ago and it said that road works and the resultant congestion was dampening down their expected revenues because they can't earn QIC bonuses. Whether we like it or not there is a pressure, right from the stock market, on operating staff to perform so the companies make a profit. It may not be "in your face" but it's there. I bet every single bus driver in London understands that simple company pressure about performance, money, league tables etc. I wasn't attacking anyone. If I have offended somehow please accept my apologies. Couldn't agree more with the comments about pressure being passed down the chain. It's how the drivers deal with it that's key. I was talking to a controller at West Ham about this sort of thing once and happened to mention that I wasn't all that bothered if I ran late. He asked me why not. My response..... "That's what you lot are there for." Can still see the surprised look on his face  In my early days in the job I was as keen as everyone else to finish on time but it didn't take long for me to work out the easiest way to go home relaxed at the end of a day was to just go from A to (possibly) B and back again. |
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Post by greeny253 on Aug 26, 2015 21:24:24 GMT
According to the spare rota, I'm on the 275 Friday, funny that as I haven't told them I know the route and I also haven't been shown round it by my mentor, oh well I wanted to do a different route anyway, what could possibly go wrong... As I was on the 48's again yesterday as they changed my job, I finally got to drive scania's from both batches I've only really driven the 59 plates before, What a difference a batch can make, I know every bus drives different but there were noticeable differences. The 59 plate 15126 was very nippy and smooth on acceleration, kickdown also worked how it should, the brakes were smooth and the doors were quick. The bus was also set up in Dynamic mode which when going up gradients will allow the bus to downshift without the driver having to engage kickdown, according to the average MPG it was getting about 4.3MPG over the 4 hours that I had it, was a nice bus to drive The 10 Plate 15170 was a different story, This bus was set up in static mode so would change up as soon as possible, the take off was abysmal and it wasn't the smoothest either as the gearbox was providing some harsh shifts even a passenger commented on this, Kickdown worked but you literally had to kick the pedal down to get it to activate so I didn't bother using it, something I don't get about the scania buses is that if you have opened the rear doors the stop brake will not release until the front doors have completely shut, now this wouldn't be a problem if the front doors were fine but they were taking an age to close and I was actually losing time at bus stops because of this, even with me driving slower the bus averaged 3.6 MPG over the 3 and a half hours I had it. Times sure has changed from back in the day when you started at a garage, you learned every route the garage operated. Then when on spare you had to do everything. If you didn't like a route they would do their best not to give it to you. I guess when they started to bring in single line route rota for tupe, then this must have ended. Im shocked at that average mpg figure, the Volvo B7TL's do better than the Scania taking around 6-7mpg.
Spare rota was great. Managed something like 5 months without starting before 16:00 because a lot of other drivers hated lates and I didn't. Only ended up doing 2 weeks of early turn before I went on rota because I was on holiday the week before! Standard response to my walking in for an early shift ..... "What are you doing in this early?"  Just wish that on more than one occasion my answer could have been.... Going home! |
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Post by vjaska on Aug 26, 2015 22:08:14 GMT
You are arguing a lost cause, would TFL really want drivers running around breaking the law by speeding even if the passengers are getting a smooth ride, the answer will always be no and no one will stand up for the driver if he is involved in an accident, ALMOST always better to take the safe option, assess situations twice before you go flying into them, I'm quite sure if you went along the same county lanes I went down in Essex for the first time in a bus you would be far off the speed limit which is a limit not a target. Far too many people think these days oh it's fine I'll just go a little faster but they aren't seeing what could happen of if they are they just don't care, the amount of buses I've seen drive through RED traffic lights when they clearly had time to safely stop is crazy, why they seem to be in such a rush to break the law is crazy, you could have up to 80+ people on your bus and you are displaying to them that you are driving without due care and attention and don't seem to care about it and this isn't just one off cases it happens frequently and doesn't correlate to any company any route. No one should be in such a rush, there should be no pressure for drivers to be in a rush but it's apparent there is, drivers should always observe speed limits and drive in a safe manor regardless of how late they are My point exactly. Not aiming this at any one user in particular but there are far too many armchair expert bus drivers on here. I don't think you are aiming it as such but I don't think some have actually bothered reading my posts at all. |
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Post by VPL630 on Aug 27, 2015 9:47:25 GMT
For the first time I actually lost mileage last night, I'd caught my leader up at City Road and stayed with him to St Barts, I then went into the hospital to get some food and use the toilet, came back to my bus 1 min after I was due to leave ended up leaving 4 mins late as someone wanted directions anyway while I had been away from my bus there had been quite a few radio calls that I'd missed about city road being closed and having to go on diversion, luckily I did receive one more just in time about the diversion which seemed far to long and I knew a short cut so I asked if I could take it and he said as long as I don't get lost or rip the roof of the bus so from Barbican Station I followed the 153 route back to Angel where I arrived 13 late, I got this down to 10 late by the time I got to Whips Cross but as I arrived there were 3 56 buses on stand with one just about to leave so called iBus for instructions, They said wait for the next one to leave and then leave 4 mins after it which I did so I'm leaving 12 mins late with the destination of Barbican, I get to Barbican 5 mins before I'm due out again and then 2 other 56's come flying past together, service control seemed to be lacking that night, I left on my card time get to Angel and there is another 56 behind me! I get to Dalston and there is a 56 in front of me! I didn't gain or lose any time since I left barbican, when I got the chance I went round him and stayed in front, arrived at Whipps with a not so bad headway and then back to the garage which was jammed full of buses so had to wait outside for a while, they are normally very good at getting the buses in without them having to wait on the road outside but it just wasn't going to plan tonight. I've heard from a few drivers I'm gaining a reputation already as the "school kid" "bruno mars" "jackson 5 guy" and various other names but it's all fun and games  |
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Post by RM5chris on Aug 27, 2015 19:33:54 GMT
For the first time I actually lost mileage last night, I'd caught my leader up at City Road and stayed with him to St Barts, I then went into the hospital to get some food and use the toilet, came back to my bus 1 min after I was due to leave ended up leaving 4 mins late as someone wanted directions anyway while I had been away from my bus there had been quite a few radio calls that I'd missed about city road being closed and having to go on diversion, luckily I did receive one more just in time about the diversion which seemed far to long and I knew a short cut so I asked if I could take it and he said as long as I don't get lost or rip the roof of the bus so from Barbican Station I followed the 153 route back to Angel where I arrived 13 late, I got this down to 10 late by the time I got to Whips Cross but as I arrived there were 3 56 buses on stand with one just about to leave so called iBus for instructions, They said wait for the next one to leave and then leave 4 mins after it which I did so I'm leaving 12 mins late with the destination of Barbican, I get to Barbican 5 mins before I'm due out again and then 2 other 56's come flying past together, service control seemed to be lacking that night, I left on my card time get to Angel and there is another 56 behind me! I get to Dalston and there is a 56 in front of me! I didn't gain or lose any time since I left barbican, when I got the chance I went round him and stayed in front, arrived at Whipps with a not so bad headway and then back to the garage which was jammed full of buses so had to wait outside for a while, they are normally very good at getting the buses in without them having to wait on the road outside but it just wasn't going to plan tonight. I've heard from a few drivers I'm gaining a reputation already as the "school kid" "bruno mars" "jackson 5 guy" and various other names but it's all fun and games Earning a nickname in the garage is a badge of honour/sign of acceptance! |
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Post by snoggle on Aug 27, 2015 19:51:29 GMT
I've heard from a few drivers I'm gaining a reputation already as the "school kid" "bruno mars" "jackson 5 guy" and various other names but it's all fun and games Earning a nickname in the garage is a badge of honour/sign of acceptance! He's clearly proving very honourable or acceptable if he's got several nicknames.  |
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Post by RM5chris on Aug 27, 2015 19:58:44 GMT
Earning a nickname in the garage is a badge of honour/sign of acceptance! He's clearly proving very honourable or acceptable if he's got several nicknames. But don't get a reputation for scratching! |
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Post by Alex on Aug 28, 2015 0:23:38 GMT
Hello 10301 - just to say I have been following this excellent thread with much interest - thank you for taking the time to keep us updated and providing such detailed and well written accounts - certainly answered a lot of questions I have had for ages about being a bus driver. Keep 'em coming! This is of particular interest as Stagecoach is my favourite operator, and has been for some time now. I live close to PD garage so travel on their routes frequently, and also travel on WH routes a lot too as my girlfriend lives in East London. I don't generally take any Leyton routes (my main ones being 330, 69, 97 and Tower Transit 58) but certainly I find it interesting in East London, especially (like you) as I prefer the Tridents and it's now hybrid city in PD........  I'm so pleased for you that you've got the position of driver, are enjoying it, and reading this thread, doing very well! I imagine it's very exciting and interesting too to learn the job from that side of the screen. Thanks again for posting this thread and indeed keep up the good work! |
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Post by VPL630 on Aug 28, 2015 10:27:08 GMT
Hello 10301 - just to say I have been following this excellent thread with much interest - thank you for taking the time to keep us updated and providing such detailed and well written accounts - certainly answered a lot of questions I have had for ages about being a bus driver. Keep 'em coming! This is of particular interest as Stagecoach is my favourite operator, and has been for some time now. I live close to PD garage so travel on their routes frequently, and also travel on WH routes a lot too as my girlfriend lives in East London. I don't generally take any Leyton routes (my main ones being 330, 69, 97 and Tower Transit 58) but certainly I find it interesting in East London, especially (like you) as I prefer the Tridents and it's now hybrid city in PD........ I'm so pleased for you that you've got the position of driver, are enjoying it, and reading this thread, doing very well! I imagine it's very exciting and interesting too to learn the job from that side of the screen. Thanks again for posting this thread and indeed keep up the good work! Well I'm glad to see you have enjoyed my posts, I also glad you like tridents, I feel sorry you are surrounded by hybrids as I personally feel they are boring to drive. Speaking of that I had 12143 last night and it was all fine until my last trip where it seemed to have a loss of power, I noticed this leaving Barbican, no warning lights so I just thought it might be imagining the bus is slower, get to angel and I'm greeted with a Yellow Transmission fault light and Yellow STOP Hybird light so isolated and restarted but they remained on, Theses lights come on so much on the Hybrids it's too the point where you just think nothing of it and because it doesn't give you a reason as to why or even tell you what's wrong they aren't much use, anyway I carried on and after this point the bus seemed to be if anything much faster, It would rev to 2000rpm almost as soon as the throttle was full depressed just like the original 58 plate hybrids but it seemed as if I had no regenerative braking but every time I touched the brakes the engine would rev up to 2000rpm but I still wasn't getting any extra stopping power, Get to Lea Bridge Roundabout and as I'm coming to a stop the Red HEV light comes on  When I get to the next bus stop I called iBus to let them know but they said if I could carry on, so I did it seemed fine until Markhouse road where coming to a stop at about 20mph the Regen brakes kicked in very sharply and brought the bus to a stop very harshly luckily no one was on the bus at this time, nothing else weird happened during the trip, finished at Whipps Cross, ran dead to the garage sitting just before the wash in neutral about to go and tell one of the engineers and then all of a sudden all the warning lights go out as if nothing happened. |
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Post by VPL630 on Sept 1, 2015 18:19:19 GMT
Not much to post about really, They seem to love giving me 56 jobs, especially when I ask for a 48 or 215, Got a horrible (For me anyway) spread over on the 56 tomorrow and then I've been treated to the 48 and possibly a 215, Anyway here is a picture showing what it is like trying to get out of the garage at 6am scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtl1/v/t1.0-9/11986306_10203620186099975_3714818607067130232_n.jpg?oh=84402c20b01e19b3f80d546d7b5bec16&oe=56718BE015139 is the fastest Scania at Leyton that I've driven so far, was so nice and smooth but GreenRoad is a bit sensitive (Varies so much by each bus) 12141 is the slowest hybrid at Leyton that I've driven so far, limited out at around 40, Emission Warning Light was on and it didn't really want to rev high except under braking, you also had to brake quite hard to get it to stop which I liked as you could really easily provide smooth braking |
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When I get to the next bus stop I called iBus to let them know but they said if I could carry on, so I did it seemed fine until Markhouse road where coming to a stop at about 20mph the Regen brakes kicked in very sharply and brought the bus to a stop very harshly luckily no one was on the bus at this time, nothing else weird happened during the trip, finished at Whipps Cross, ran dead to the garage sitting just before the wash in neutral about to go and tell one of the engineers and then all of a sudden all the warning lights go out as if nothing happened.